The Future of Bowl Games

rcade · December 22, 2023

22 hours ago, NM Green said:

The most baffling post of this time of year to me are people complaining we have too much college football on a college football board.

I find the complaints weird too. There should be as many bowls as there are cities and committees that want to run them and fans who want to go to them.

Is a 6-6 team playing another 6-6 team in Shreveport going to be remembered forevermore? Probably not. But it's still a chance for two teams to mark a season with a celebratory trip to a bowl with everything that goes along with it, like a banquet where they get to put on ties, hear some speeches and eat chicken, mashed potatoes and chocolate pudding.

If there was a vote for more college football or less, I am voting more.

NT80 · December 22, 2023

5 minutes ago, rcade said:

I find the complaints weird too. There should be as many bowls as there are cities and committees that want to run them and fans who want to go to them.

Is a 6-6 team playing another 6-6 team in Shreveport going to be remembered forevermore? Probably not. But it's still a chance for two teams to mark a season with a celebratory trip to a bowl with everything that goes along with it, like a banquet where they get to put on ties, hear some speeches and eat chicken, mashed potatoes and chocolate pudding.

If there was a vote for more college football or less, I am voting more.

College football used to be special. TV was for Big or Special games. I have some of NT's early TV games on VHS tapes, because they were so rare. Now every game is broadcast live, either TV or streaming.

Bowl games used to be Special. Now, even teams with losing records can go to Bowl games to fill open spots.

Media and $$ are now controlling the games, the conference invites, the team rosters, everything.....not the schools.

rcade · December 22, 2023

18 minutes ago, NT80 said:

College football used to be special. TV was for Big or Special games. I have some of NT's early TV games on VHS tapes, because they were so rare. Now every game is broadcast live, either TV or streaming.

Why is it more special to not be able to see your team's games every week? Rare is for steak and Pokemon cards, not sporting events. Being able to see every Mean Green game in Florida is glorious.

NT80 · December 22, 2023

1 hour ago, rcade said:

Why is it more special to not be able to see your team's games every week? Rare is for steak and Pokemon cards, not sporting events. Being able to see every Mean Green game in Florida is glorious.

That's why college football attendance has dropped overall and fans don't travel as much. No need to.

rcade · December 22, 2023

11 hours ago, NT80 said:

That's why college football attendance has dropped overall and fans don't travel as much. No need to.

It's cool that some fans travel to games but the overall fanbase contains a lot more people who don't have the time or opportunity so they watch those games on TV. I don't think the Mean Green would benefit from being on TV less. There would be some benefit to home game attendance but it would significantly drop the number of alumni who follow the team. One of the biggest problems with CUSA was the low-quality TV production that made games look small time.

NT80 · December 22, 2023

2 hours ago, rcade said:

It's cool that some fans travel to games but the overall fanbase contains a lot more people who don't have the time or opportunity so they watch those games on TV. I don't think the Mean Green would benefit from being on TV less. There would be some benefit to home game attendance but it would significantly drop the number of alumni who follow the team. One of the biggest problems with CUSA was the low-quality TV production that made games look small time.

I think you missed the context of the conversation. Like more of anything, there is a downside of too much. Diluted value because of excess quantity.

golfingomez · December 22, 2023

On 12/20/2023 at 6:30 PM, Meangreen Fight said:

Looking at some of these stale uninteresting bowl games this year I want gauge what everyone thinks should or will happen with bowl games going forward.

As for my thoughts I think a lot of bowls should go away. I don’t many of them being revenue generators for the schools involved. When the bowls are so low revenue and unattractive that the bands don’t want to or can’t come I don’t see the point. Then you have way too many 6-6 and 7-5 teams in bowls. Outside of the playoff I think 12-14 bowls are enough. And things like bowls in New York & Boston or any venue north of Mason Dixon Line without a roof just don't make sense to me.

I find your argument very valid, and with the last few years have players skip the game to protect themselves for the draft (or now, to enter the transfer portal), it would seem like the bowl games would lessen.

However as someone already pointed out, the bowl games are 97% controlled by ESPN, who will gladly prop these games up to keep live sports content on their calendar. ESPN also manages to spread these games out, which is really the polar opposite of my love for college football being the madness of 50+games being played on one day.

The only thing that will cut down the bowl games will be the eventual split between the haves and have nots. At this point in my college football viewing experience, I'm ready for this, and honestly, i'm ready for the PIF to come buy the football teams and run this like a proper organization, maybe throw a little relugation in the system and just hit the full reset button.

Meangreen Fight · December 22, 2023

On 12/21/2023 at 6:55 AM, untbowler said:

NIL is killing bowl games just like it has with College Football in general.

That isn’t remotely correct. So disappointing that people even think this way. What is killing College Football is that the EVERYONE but the players have been able to do whatever was best for them without regard for the whole! Players were skipping bowl games long before NIL. And bowl were just unique virtually meaningless post season exhibitions when they were first created. I find it ironic that now all the old SWC schools except Rice are all back in conferences with “respect”. Nothing substantially changed at any of these schools relatively to each other. NIL didn’t start the salary and facilities arms races. And it sure as hell did not tell all the blue blood brands to financially screw over their rivals, conferences and bowl tie in agreements.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Meangreen Fight

Aquila_Viridis · December 22, 2023

Complain all you want but eventually every FCS, DII, DIII and HS game will be viewable live too. There’s a stratification of bowl games. There’s a much more significant reward in some than there are in others. As long as it makes economic sense, bring them on!

Meangreen Fight · December 22, 2023

18 hours ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

As long as it makes economic sense, bring them on!

There lies the problem once you’ve broken the barrier where it becomes a net zero for the participants you’ve damaged the market as a whole. The greed paradigm killed the bowls. If that had went the fair competition way instead of a few bowls maximizing their income would have had playoff of 4 teams AFTER all the bowl games were played. ONLY Bowl winners would have be eligible for the playoff. So in a year like this nobody gets screwed except maybe Liberty.

Rose Bowl - Michigan vs Washington classic matchup winner in

Cotton Bowl - Texas vs Georgia

Sugar - FSU vs Georgia

Orange - OSU vs Alabama

Fiesta Bowl - Oregon vs Missouri

Peach - Ole Miss vs Liberty (great matchup in a virtually perfect neutral setting)

This is just a hypothetical you could re-arrange the matchups. One intriguing option would be giving the 1 ranked team a “virtual by” by matching them up against the top ranked G5. An undefeated or even one loss G5 team gets in the playoff if they knock off the top ranked team in an elimination game.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Meangreen Fight

Arkstfan · December 26, 2023

Not much love for free market capitalism here.

The NCAA used to keep the number of bowl games under a tight cap and it wasn't unusual for some teams with a lot of wins to miss out.

1975 11-0 Arkansas State, as well as runner up 8-2 La Tech. MVC Champ 7-4 Tulsa, MAC had champ in bowl but not 9-2 Ball State, 8-2-1 Central Michigan, and 8-3 Bowling Green. The PCAC (Big West) had champ SJSU out at 9-2, nor Long Beach at 9-2, nor 8-3 SDSU. in the Pac-8 8-3 and ranked Cal missed a bowl but 7-4 USC made one. 8-3 ECU and App State in the Southern missed bowls. 9-2 Arizona missed a bowl game. 9-2 Rutgers, 8-3 Notre Dame, and 8-3 Virginia Tech left out.

Imagine what happened in recruiting afterward, left out of a bowl then you bump up against a 7 win South Carolina, NC State or USC that made a bowl. No shot at winning what was already a tough recruiting battle. Go up against a school that was in a league with a bowl tie and you didn't have one? Good luck again.

Fast forward to 1985. Left out was 8-2-1 Miami (OH) and 8-4 Utah (played at Hawaii). Few extra bowls helped out.

1995 Well Miami (OH) misses at 8-2-1 despite beating Big Ten champion Northwestern on the road. No one else with 8 misses but it didn't hurt that Alabama and Miami (FL) were under bowl bans.

People interested in hosting bowl games had finally said the magic words. Antitrust violation and the NCAA rolled over.

In my perfect world, bowl eligibility comes down to this. No team with 6 wins can be invited until every team with 7 or more is placed and no team with less than six until every team with 6 or more is placed.

After that let the markets determine if we have too many bowl games. Haven't been many games fold in recent years. I do expect some to close up thanks to the playoff but if someone is willing to pay to show the game who really cares?

If you have an antenna you've seen some of the junk channels like Grit and Cozi that sometimes show up in the basic satellite, cable, streaming packages. They run long annoying ads for stuff you'd probably never buy but someone obviously does buy or the commercials would go away.

I'll watch 5th place CUSA vs 6th place MAC if I'm in the mood to watch football and that's the best game available.

Arkstfan · December 26, 2023

OH one more thing.

I do expect things to change up with the playoff.

Next year what would normally be the first Saturday of the bowl season will have three playoff games. The following Saturday has four playoff games.

I expect our usuals like Frisco, First Responder, Camellia, Mobile, NOLA will become midweek games if they make it long term.

Wouldn't be surprised to see some bowls played between January 2nd and January 18 next year to keep the hype up for the playoff.

NT80 · December 26, 2023

On 12/25/2023 at 10:06 PM, Arkstfan said:

OH one more thing.

I do expect things to change up with the playoff.

Next year what would normally be the first Saturday of the bowl season will have three playoff games. The following Saturday has four playoff games.

I expect our usuals like Frisco, First Responder, Camellia, Mobile, NOLA will become midweek games if they make it long term.

Wouldn't be surprised to see some bowls played between January 2nd and January 18 next year to keep the hype up for the playoff.

I agree the playoff expansion will become somewhat disruptive to the lessor bowls.

I watched a couple FCS playoff games this year. I found them very good quality games and the players were all-in on playing for a purpose. Counter that with FBS players leaving teams before Bowls, either for the portal, or sitting out for the draft. Several teams seemed to be just going thru the motions of a game, but more like on a vacation instead of a mission.

Edited December 27, 2023 by NT80

Arkstfan · December 26, 2023

6 hours ago, NT80 said:

I agree the playoff expansion will become somewhat disruptive to the lessor bowls.

I watched a couple FCS playoff games this year. I found them very good quality games and the players were all-in on playing for a purpose. Counter that with FBS players leaving teams in Bowls either for the portal of sitting out for the draft. Several teams seemed to be just going thru the motions of a game, but more like on a vacation instead of a mission.

One thing I like about bowls is lead time. Now I missed the Camellia because I'd booked three nights at the lodge at Mt Magazine State Park (it's awesome, every room has a balcony overlooking the valley) so wife and I didn't get home until Thursday, game was Saturday. Just didn't have the energy to drive 6 1/2 hours. But it beat the playoff days in I-AA when you found out Sunday where you were on Saturday from a fan standpoint.

Writer for the Athletic had a nice piece talking about how the "throwaway" G5 bowls are better than the P5 also ran games because so many in the P5 are conditioned to think season is failure without a playoff or NY6 bid.

rcade · December 26, 2023

10 hours ago, NT80 said:

Counter that with FBS players leaving teams in Bowls either for the portal of sitting out for the draft.

I will be surprised if the expanded playoff slows down the rate of players who sit out for the NFL Draft.

So many athletes are skipping bowls for the draft or the portal that a lot of bowls feel like the start of the next season instead of the end to this one. FSU isn't the team that went undefeated any more with five stars skipping the Orange Bowl and even QB Tate Rodemaker hitting the portal instead of playing.

TripleGrad · December 26, 2023

I am curious why UNT hasn't organized a Bowl game at Apogee (errr. DATCU) stadium. It's a good looking venue, and a CUSU or Sunbelt matchup would be a good fit.

97and03 · December 27, 2023

On 12/26/2023 at 10:26 PM, TripleGrad said:

I am curious why UNT hasn't organized a Bowl game at Apogee (errr. DATCU) stadium. It's a good looking venue, and a CUSU or Sunbelt matchup would be a good fit.

Denton doesn’t have the hotel capacity would be one reason.