North Texas receives access to Texas University Fund

[outoftown]

7 hours ago, Hunter Green said:

Those three privates have their own niche.

Sure they do and I doubt they are out there publicly crying about it. But to some degree it is a competitive space, even more so as the enrollment cliff is a real thing.

[DentonLurker]

4 hours ago, outoftown said:

Sure they do and I doubt they are out there publicly crying about it. But to some degree it is a competitive space, even more so as the enrollment cliff is a real thing.

Those 3 also have significant endowments already compared to UNT/TXST to serve a lot fewer students.

- UNT $296M

- Texas State $343M

- SMU $2B

- Baylor $2B

- Rice $8B

Compare those with the 4 schools that are sharing the $3.9B TUF.

[cousin oliver]

1 hour ago, DentonLurker said:

Those 3 also have significant endowments already compared to UNT/TXST to serve a lot fewer students.

- UNT $296M

- Texas State $343M

- SMU $2B

- Baylor $2B

- Rice $8B

Compare those with the 4 schools that are sharing the $3.9B TUF.

right but the tuf is annual correct?

[DentonLurker]

3 minutes ago, cousin oliver said:

right but the tuf is annual correct?

The distributions from the endowment are annual

[3XNTGRAD]

11 hours ago, NT80 said:

Are these $$ for the UNT System, or UNT @ Denton?

Denton campus

[Cerebus]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:25 PM, golfingomez said:

This is great, i'm excited to hear that we will be able to lower tuition for all of our students!

• UNT has frozen tuition and fee increases since the start of COVID, the legislature is likely to freeze increases for the at least the next two years. 
• As you've probably noticed, EVERYTHING is much more expensive than before COVID.
• If you've hired people locally, you know the job market is HOT in North Texas and salaries are booming. 

So despite the huge increase in costs for the university, it has already made serious sacrifices to NOT pass the expense along to the student.  

[meangreenfaninno]

The amendment clears the way for the Texas Legislature to prime the pump for the four university systems with $4 billion in initial funding for the new permanent endowment. Following that initial amount, the Legislature will be able to provide $100 million per year of the interest and investment income from the Economic Stabilization Fund, also known as the rainy day fund.

The amendment also will allow state lawmakers to add eligible public universities to the fund, but only if more money is provided.

The Texas University Fund was designed to invest in emerging research universities in the state, with lawmakers supporting it because highly regarded Tier One research institutions have stimulated both regional and state economies.

The new fund should attract more research faculty, giving the universities a more competitive edge in recruitment. Generally, a stable of renowned faculty can attract more students and graduate students.

Kim Garza Turner, a UNT alumna and the system coordinator for the Texas University Fund Political Action Committee, said in an interview before Tuesday’s election that the fund would stimulate regional and state economies.

“The fund allows more Texas universities to receive national rankings in research, which directly impacts graduates and jobs,” she said. “The fund would make a lot of difference when it comes to meeting the demands of industry.

“As you know, Denton County is, what, the fourth fastest-growing county in the country? Can this help the universities meet the needs of the Texas economy? Yes.”

Read more:  https://www.keranews.org/politics/2023-11-08/unt-set-to-gain-millions-in-funding-as-texans-give-thumbs-up-to-proposition-5

[meanJewGreen]

For those in the know academically, could this be a way for us to build a long term plan to get into the AAU? 

[DentonLurker]

@meanJewGreen, this is from the R1 Our Way Task Force at UNT.

Quote

As part of our R1 Our Way plan, our aspiration is to move from the bottom quartile of R1 to the top half of R1 universities and become of similar quality to Association of American Universities (AAU) universities. This goal is aligned with the Texas National Research University initiative, codified in the Texas Education Code 62.141-62.149. The State of Texas has designated UNT as an emerging research university with the aim of aiding UNT in becoming an American Association of Universities (AAU)-quality institution. The AAU includes 63 research universities who are among the most research intensive in the nation. These universities make up most of the top half of the Carnegie R1 universities. In this cycle, UNT successfully moved from the bottom quartile of R1 to the third quartile, and we are well on our way to reaching our goal of reaching the middle of R1 universities.

 

[meanJewGreen]

1 hour ago, DentonLurker said:

@meanJewGreen, this is from the R1 Our Way Task Force at UNT.

 

Got it. So there's a plan, per se, but it seems like it's a long way off 

[Cerebus]

5 hours ago, meanJewGreen said:

For those in the know academically, could this be a way for us to build a long term plan to get into the AAU? 

Getting into the AAU would be harder than getting into the P5 (P2?).  

I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just a real hard climb.

[Legend500]

6 hours ago, Cerebus said:

Getting into the AAU would be harder than getting into the P5 (P2?).  

I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just a real hard climb.

The only Texas school better positioned to enter the AAU than us is Houston (AAU doesn't consider Ag Department research expenditures, which dings Texas State a bit and absolutely murders TTU's chances). Of the privates, only Baylor is even on the radar. 

That said, the gap between the AAU and Houston is large, and between us and Houston research-wise is similarly huge. The best thing UNT can do for now is to continue to dance with the partner who brought us and keep making real strides in the humanities - which is less effective for research dollars but far more useful for publishing statistics, which is also a part of the AAU and the TUF's methodology.

[El Paso Eagle]

6 hours ago, Cerebus said:

Getting into the AAU would be harder than getting into the P5 (P2?).  

I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just a real hard climb.

Without a Medical school, it's very close to impossible

[DentonLurker]

13 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Without a Medical school, it's very close to impossible

Curious why you think that? What gives universities with a med school a leg up? 2 of the 6 new members in 2023 don't have a med school.

[DeepGreen]

What happened to UNT's Medical School?  Wasn't it in Fort Worth?

[El Paso Eagle]

2 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

Curious why you think that? What gives universities with a med school a leg up? 2 of the 6 new members in 2023 don't have a med school.

From what I understand historically a medical school is very important and can be a major swaying point. While they say it is not mandatory without having one you have to be really on top of the other areas.

[Cerebus]

5 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

What happened to UNT's Medical School?  Wasn't it in Fort Worth?

UNT Health Science Center is a separate entity, it is a member of the UNT System but isn't part of UNT Denton.  Just like UNT Dallas. 

[DeepGreen]

5 hours ago, Cerebus said:

UNT Health Science Center is a separate entity, it is a member of the UNT System but isn't part of UNT Denton.  Just like UNT Dallas. 

Thank you!

[NT80]

7 hours ago, Cerebus said:

UNT Health Science Center is a separate entity, it is a member of the UNT System but isn't part of UNT Denton.  Just like UNT Dallas. 

Maybe we should make them (UNT HSC) a satellite of UNT-Denton, just like the Frisco campus is.

[Greenrex]

6 hours ago, NT80 said:

Maybe we should make them (UNT HSC) a satellite of UNT-Denton, just like the Frisco campus is.

That is not outside the realm of possibility especially if that is what it takes to move up the ranking ladder. It seems there has never been more "official" interest in North Texas' success in that regard. Let us hope.

[DentonTechsan]

On 11/15/2023 at 4:47 AM, Greenrex said:

That is not outside the realm of possibility especially if that is what it takes to move up the ranking ladder. It seems there has never been more "official" interest in North Texas' success in that regard. Let us hope.

Far from it, the potential for a UNT(-Denton) and UNTHSC merger in the early 2010s was derailed by the former UNTHSC president who sabotaged efforts against the UNT System's efforts:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dallasnews.com/news/2013/01/05/former-president-of-unt-health-science-center-at-fort-worth-says-he-was-fired-unfairly/%3foutputType=amp

https://www.scribd.com/document/124809948/Report-on-Evaluation-of-the-Proposed-Merger-of-UNT

https://fortworthbusiness.com/health-care/unthscs-new-prez/

Merging UNT and UNTHSC makes more sense today than it did when the private Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine was taken over by the State of Texas, and put under the control of the NTSU BoR. Now that the TCU/UNTHSC partnered MD school has been taken over fully by TCU, UNTHSC no longer has the same direction/distraction for the first time in decades.

The primary reason to merge is aggregating the research expenditures from a Med School (MD/DO) with the general academic departments at UNT towards metrics AAU considers for admission. It's not enough to bridge the gap where TTU (has two med schools, but in separate HSC universities like UNTHSC) and UH (who just opened their med school within UH) already are, but is the modern organizational structure UT Austin, UT Rio Grande Valley, Texas A&M, UH, and soon UT Tyler, already benefit from.

UTSA and UT Health San Antonio tried a similar merger around the same time UNT/UNTHSC was proposed and failed:

https://sanantonioreport.org/the-move-to-merge-utsa-and-uthscsa/

[GreenFeet12]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:47 PM, Legend500 said:

The only Texas school better positioned to enter the AAU than us is Houston (AAU doesn't consider Ag Department research expenditures, which dings Texas State a bit and absolutely murders TTU's chances). Of the privates, only Baylor is even on the radar. 

That said, the gap between the AAU and Houston is large, and between us and Houston research-wise is similarly huge. The best thing UNT can do for now is to continue to dance with the partner who brought us and keep making real strides in the humanities - which is less effective for research dollars but far more useful for publishing statistics, which is also a part of the AAU and the TUF's methodology.

none of what you are saying is remotely close to being true

1. UT Dallas would be the Texas university that is closest to AAU like metrics

2. UH and Texas Tech would be second, but each has their own issues....they both have issues with total research funding, they both have issues with freshman metrics (UH slightly better), they both have issues with graduation rates (Texas Tech better), and they both have issues with the quality of the faculty

the AAU does not get excited about universities that buy in members of the National Academies as UH has done and Tech to  lesser degree because that shows nothing about the university and their ability to actually have an environment that fosters that type faculty it just shows they can raise some money and hire them in

3. there is not a single AAU metric where north Texas would be ahead of Texas Tech or UH and they are dramatically behind both in pretty much every metric

prior to this new legislation when the NRUF was still up and going Tech and UH both qualified at the earliest opportunity...UTD was next, UTA after that and then UTSA just qualified

that leaves Texas State, UTEP, and north Texas that have not qualified......the most difficult metric to meet and the one that cannot be easily "accelerated" is the $45 million in restricted research

north Texas is far and away in last place in that metric and while 3 of the other 4 metrics are met without that $45 million in restricted research the others are meaningless

north Texas has grown their research (and development which is not the same as research) in recent years, but it has been almost entirely self funded and that is meaningless for the NRUF and even more meaningless for the AAU

https://reportcenter.highered.texas.gov/reports/legislative/national-research-university-fund-eligibility-2022/

there is the latest report for the 2021 year released in 2022 I am not sure there will be another report since the NRUF is now gone

Texas State could easily meet the freshman class metric with a few changes and they are about to meet the endowment metric (another that is not easy to meet if a university is poor at fund raising like north Texas is)

UTSA was the first to qualify for NRUF funding using the "5 graduate programs with AAU like metrics" and I believe that was the plan for Texas State as well so as soon as they hit $45 million in restricted research they would have adjusted to meet "freshman class" they would have raised the money needed for the endowment (about $60 million needed), they are PKP members and that would have been 4 of the 6 metrics needed

their endowment is $343 million, but north Texas is down to $270 million because of the market

https://www.nacubo.org/-/media/Nacubo/Documents/research/2022-NTSE-Public-Tables--Endowment-Market-Values--FINAL.ashx?la=en&hash=362DC3F9BDEB1DF0C22B05D544AD24D1C44E318D

but still the $45 million in restricted research is a long ways off

in 2022 the restricted research expenditures for Texas State were $41,811,801 and for north Texas $24,671,082

when it comes to research per faculty member, federal research, competitively awarded research (what the NRUF was calling restricted research), and a number of other factors UTD, Texas Tech, UH, and even UTA, UTSA, and Texas State....and even UTEP in some are all well ahead of north Texas and these are the same types of things that the AAU looks at

they normalize the total numbers to a per faculty member basis, they discount self funded research, they do not look at "development" (only research), and they do not just look at total numbers of doctoral degrees awarded

for AAU membership in Texas it is UTD <-- Texas Tech/UH <-------------- UTA UTSA <--- Texas State, UTEP, north Texas in those groupings.....UTD and Texas Tech and UH would be in LONG before any of the others and UTA and UTSA would be next in line

4. the AAU cares a great deal less about humanities than they care about bio sciences, engineering, and medical research.....they care very little about "publishing" other than that is expected when you are doing top level research in the areas they care the most about

in addition it was said that they "do not count agricultural research" and that would "hurt Texas State and Texas Tech. That is 100% false......Texas State does very little agricultural research for one thing and while Tech does a great deal more the AAU does not ignore that research because it is "agriculture research" what they specifically ignore is statutorily awarded research dollars that are given out to universities that are Land Grant Universities

neither Texas State or Texas Tech are land grant universities.....the "unfairness" claim that Nebraska made was 100% false.....the AAU discounts that non-competitively awarded/statutorily awarded Land Grant money specifically because it is not competitively awarded......and they discount that for 100% of their members that are Land Grant universities (and there are many in the AAU).....so it was not discounted because it was "agriculture" it was discounted because it was not competitively awarded

5. as for the medical school issue....this was an issue for Nebraska, but again their claims were 100% false. Nebraska had 10+ years to merge their medical school under the main campus and in The State of Nebraska only UN-Omaha would have had any "pull" at all to try and stop that from happening and it would not have been near enough if the state wanted to do it.......the reason it was not done is because the UN Medical school is not all that productive in research and their faculty is not filled with well known leaders in their fields of expertise

the AAU evaluates members and non-members against "peers" that are members and not members so that means a public university in a state with only 2 or 3 public universities like Nebraska, Iowa, or Arizona will not be evaluated in all areas against public schools in Texas or California where there are 30+ public universities

they also evaluate their public and private universities based on having a medical school or not having one....so Rice in some areas of evaluation is compared to Cal Tech, SMU, Baylor, TCU, Tulsa, and what whatever other AAU or non AAU member private schools with a strong reputation that DO NOT have a medical school.....while Tulane is compared to Vanderbilt, Duke, Stanford, and other AAU and non-AAU private schools that have a medical school

the AAU does the same for public universities as well.....so TCOM that is not all that high in research and that does not have a great deal of well known faculty and that is a DO school (not known for research at all) would not help in any merger because they would change the factors of evaluation to being evaluated against public universities with medical schools instead of those without and the ones in the AAU with medical schools and the top ones not in the AAU with medical schools are doing a great deal more research than a merged TCOM/north Texas would be doing

the merger of UTSA and UT-HSCSA was not done because just "getting NRUF funding" was not the goal of that program the goal was for those universities to actually elevate themselves in a meaningful way that benefits them and The State of Texas....just merging those two entities to get STATE funding while doing nothing else different would accomplish nothing.....if it had been to gain FEDERAL dollars that would be a different situation entirely 

with the NRUF program gone and with UTSA meeting the requirements now anyway I would not be surprised if a merger did not happen in the future, but probably after The State of Texas changes the formula funding mechanism for medical schools to be more like 4 year universities so there is not a reduction in funding for a merger

north Texas is not close to being an AAU member and there are a number of universities in Texas that are better positioned based on all of the metrics that the AAU evaluates and based on the degree programs those universities offer in engineering and life sciences and based on the normalized "per faculty member" metrics that the AAU uses

concentrating on humanities and self funded research and putting out a lot of doctoral students in the soft and social sciences will not help one bit nor will forming partnerships with school districts in the DFW metromess to allow students in with lower admission metrics nor will hiring a few National Academy Members that are twIce or thrice retired from the universities where they made a name for themselves and paying them a lot to teach a class or two here and there....all the more so of Texas A&M hires them away soon after