So it can be done during the season . . .

TripleGrad · November 6, 2023

NT93 · November 6, 2023

At one of the top P5’s in the nation? Yeah, it can be done.

DentonLurker · November 6, 2023

I’ve never seen anyone argue it can’t be done during the year. Plenty of debate about the wisdom of doing it mid year or whether or not we have the $’s to do it mid year.

GMG_Dallas · November 6, 2023

56 minutes ago, NT93 said:

At one of the top P5’s in the nation? Yeah, it can be done.

It's been done by several schools this year. All I know of doing this are P5s but this is the first big P5 to move on from a coordinator mid-season this year. The others I know of are Indiana and Georgia Tech. Indiana fired their OC after 5 games. Georgia Tech demoted their DC and promoted the LB coach to DC after 5 games. Then there's Iowa who announced their OC is coaching his final games and won't be back for 2024. The crazy part about it is Iowa's OC is Brian Ferentz, the son of Kirk Ferentz their current head coach. If a head coach can fire his own son, we can fire our DC. P5, G5, it don't matter.

NT93 · November 6, 2023

47 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

It's been done by several schools this year. All I know of doing this are P5s but this is the first big P5 to move on from a coordinator mid-season this year. The others I know of are Indiana and Georgia Tech. Indiana fired their OC after 5 games. Georgia Tech demoted their DC and promoted the LB coach to DC after 5 games. Then there's Iowa who announced their OC is coaching his final games and won't be back for 2024. The crazy part about it is Iowa's OC is Brian Ferentz, the son of Kirk Ferentz their current head coach. If a head coach can fire his own son, we can fire our DC. P5, G5, it don't matter.

If you’re going to hire your son, then you’ve got to be able to fire him.

Based on your list, it appears that it does matter if it’s P5 or G5. Or maybe all the G5’s are just happy with their coordinators.

NorthTexasWeLove · November 6, 2023

2 hours ago, NT93 said:

At one of the top P5’s in the nation? Yeah, it can be done.

What does that have to do with it?

1 hour ago, DentonLurker said:

I’ve never seen anyone argue it can’t be done during the year. Plenty of debate about the wisdom of doing it mid year or whether or not we have the $’s to do it mid year.

Many aren't saying that it can't be done. They're saying it shouldn't be done. Why?

GMG_Dallas · November 6, 2023

24 minutes ago, NT93 said:

If you’re going to hire your son, then you’ve got to be able to fire him.

Based on your list, it appears that it does matter if it’s P5 or G5. Or maybe all the G5’s are just happy with their coordinators.

Absolutely you've got to get able to fire him. He was their OC for 6 or 7 years. He'll find a job elsewhere.

I don't know much about other coaching situations but I'd guess firing the OC/DC mid-season is what happens when your seat is hot and you need to buy yourself some time. That's obviously not the case with Morris since he just got here but if we lose to SMU and technically fall out of bowl eligibility (minus the 5-7 situations), I'd like to see him move on from Caponi then and there since the fate of the season will have been sealed.

NT93 · November 6, 2023

8 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

What does that have to do with it?

They can afford to do it. As has been pointed out, it doesn’t have to be a top P5.

DentonLurker · November 6, 2023

12 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Why?

For me, it’s two reasons…

1- I just don’t see that it does the program any favors to do it now. I don’t see the value add here, at USC, or anywhere else.

2- My personal belief is that a new staff deserves a full year of recruiting before you truly know what they’re made of. I know that’s the unpopular opinion around here, and I’m okay with that.

Green with Envy · November 6, 2023

2 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

or whether or not we have the $’s to do it mid year.

What is the cost impact? Isn’t he on a 1-year deal anyways? We would interim from within, I would assume. What added cost is up for debate?

Green with Envy · November 6, 2023

I do also think there is a difference here. Grinch was in year 1.5. Caponi is in year .5

How many coordinators don’t make it through their first season? I bet that list is very small.

DentonLurker · November 6, 2023

9 minutes ago, Green with Envy said:

What is the cost impact? Isn’t he on a 1-year deal anyways? We would interim from within, I would assume. What added cost is up for debate?

I’m pretty sure coordinators are on two year deals. They were a few years ago, and I can’t imagine that changed. I could be wrong though.

NorthTexasWeLove · November 6, 2023

10 hours ago, NT93 said:

They can afford to do it. As has been pointed out, it doesn’t have to be a top P5.

I figured that was what you were getting at. If Caponi is under a 1-year contract as most assistants are, UNT can afford it. The money has already been lost. I still have not seen the details outside of his contract outside of the pay. Surely sue we aren't dumb enough to give a 0-year experienced DC a multi-year deal.

10 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

For me, it’s two reasons…

1- I just don’t see that it does the program any favors to do it now. I don’t see the value add here, at USC, or anywhere else.

2- My personal belief is that a new staff deserves a full year of recruiting before you truly know what they’re made of. I know that’s the unpopular opinion around here, and I’m okay with that.

To respond...

1. It sends a message to your clearly disinterested fanbase. It also gives Eric a head start to find a real DC that runs a real system.

2. I have no rebuttal to this, as I understand what you are saying here. What I can say, and the program has already been mentioned, is Alex Grinch. He was lugged around by Lincoln Riley from OU to USC. All he did was provide his head coach terrible defenses at both places. Lincoln was far more patient than I would have been, and for no good reason.

The question is, and some fault of this should be placed on Eric Morris, how much better can we possibly be on defense next year? We don't have the players, I keep hearing. From my outlook, we don't have players that are willing to stick their nose in it for their DC. We have players. We have unmotivated players playing in a poor scheme for a coach that they don't believe in that's in a system they weren't recruited for. It didn't have to be this way.

Case in point:

Tim Beck is the new head coach at Coastal Carolina after Jamie Chadwell was hired away by Liberty U. Tim Beck is not a spread option/triple option coach by any stretch. However, Tim Beck knows who his players are. They have been transitioning to Tim Beck's offensive system while keeping a lot of Jamie Chadwell's spread option in place, particularly when it gets to crunch time or key situations. Tim Beck has been able to set his system AND ego to the side and make due with what he has and play to the strength to his players. Seems crazy, right? Well, they're 6-3 and currently 2nd in their division behind nationally ranked JMU.

untbowler · November 6, 2023

12 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

It's been done by several schools this year. All I know of doing this are P5s but this is the first big P5 to move on from a coordinator mid-season this year. The others I know of are Indiana and Georgia Tech. Indiana fired their OC after 5 games. Georgia Tech demoted their DC and promoted the LB coach to DC after 5 games. Then there's Iowa who announced their OC is coaching his final games and won't be back for 2024. The crazy part about it is Iowa's OC is Brian Ferentz, the son of Kirk Ferentz their current head coach. If a head coach can fire his own son, we can fire our DC. P5, G5, it don't matter.

Arkansas fired their OC 2 weeks ago after the MSU debacle, new Interim OC and then they beat Florida on Saturday, the fired Enos for trying to force his style of play onto players who are not prepped for the system, just like Caponi is doing and failing miserably.

Edited November 6, 2023 by untbowler

Cr1028 · November 6, 2023

14 hours ago, TripleGrad said:

13 hours ago, NT93 said:

At one of the top P5’s in the nation? Yeah, it can be done.

A tale as old as time. An Air Raid guy can’t find a defensive coordinator to slow the opposition enough to win big games. How many titles do air raid head coaches have (without the Bob Stoops premade setup)? What percentage of the seasons they have coached represent?

Green Otaku · November 6, 2023

Yes it can, and should be done. Although it will be Morris' choice, but whatever he chooses will define his tenure here. Letting someone go early fixes the problem of getting a late start last year, both in candidates and recruiting.

97and03 · November 6, 2023

17 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Absolutely you've got to get able to fire him. He was their OC for 6 or 7 years. He'll find a job elsewhere.

I don't know much about other coaching situations but I'd guess firing the OC/DC mid-season is what happens when your seat is hot and you need to buy yourself some time. That's obviously not the case with Morris since he just got here but if we lose to SMU and technically fall out of bowl eligibility (minus the 5-7 situations), I'd like to see him move on from Caponi then and there since the fate of the season will have been sealed.

We are 108th in APR. There are no 5-7 situations for us.

GMG_Dallas · November 6, 2023

5 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

We are 108th in APR. There are no 5-7 situations for us.

So if we lose Friday, he should be getting an Uber back to Denton.

NorthTexasWeLove · November 7, 2023

4 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

So if we lose Friday, he should be getting an Uber back to Denton.

No.

He needs to carry his stuff with him and not come back to Denton.

Meangreen Fight · November 7, 2023

21 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

My personal belief is that a new staff deserves a full year of recruiting before you truly know what they’re made of. I know that’s the unpopular opinion around here, and I’m okay with that.

I get that but no matter the industry if you getting the worst results out of 130 people in your particular role most likely you are fired. Especially if you don't have tenure with that particular location. He has been worsre than bad so far. At higher profile DC jobs he would need a police escort off the field for the rest of the home games. That is a sad testament to the culture around sports. I only mention it to highlight how bad he has been.

DentonLurker · November 7, 2023

16 minutes ago, Meangreen Fight said:

I get that but no matter the industry if you getting the worst results out of 130 people in your particular role most likely you are fired. Especially if you don't have tenure with that particular location.

I don’t know. Let’s say I hire you as a sales manager of a bottom half sales team, 5 of your top 7 sales people leave before the sales season starts, and because of budget reasons you have to make due with the staff we already have on hand without replacing those 5 because other sales teams that sell a product more vital to the success of the company need to take priority this year. But next year we will have more capacity to beef up your sales team… Should you be fired anyway if your team ends up slipping from lower middle of the pack to the bottom?

Edited November 7, 2023 by DentonLurker

NorthTexasWeLove · November 7, 2023

25 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

I don’t know. Let’s say I hire you as a sales manager of a bottom half sales team, 5 of your top 7 sales people leave before the sales season starts, and because of budget reasons you have to make due with the staff we already have on hand without replacing those 5 because other sales teams that sell a product more vital to the success of the company need to take priority this year. But next year we will have more capacity to beef up your sales team… Should you be fired anyway if your team ends up slipping from lower middle of the pack to the bottom?

But what if there was a job fair 5 months before the sale season started?

DentonLurker · November 7, 2023

2 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

But what if there was a job fair 5 months before the sale season started?

Like I said:

because of budget reasons you have to make due with the staff we already have on hand without replacing those 5 because other sales teams that sell a product more vital to the success of the company need to take priority this year. But next year we will have more capacity to beef up your sales team

NorthTexasWeLove · November 7, 2023

4 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

Like I said:

because of budget reasons you have to make due with the staff we already have on hand without replacing those 5 because other sales teams that sell a product more vital to the success of the company need to take priority this year. But next year we will have more capacity to beef up your sales team

I'm not taking that job, man. Sounds like a failure of a place.

MGNation92 · November 7, 2023

I'm as unsatisfied with Caponi's results as anyone but I think he deserves another season and full recruiting cycle to hit the portal, and get some transfers/JuCo's to fill the front 7 - Continue to let players like Jackson and Anderson develop and improve(hopefully Starling as well), and plug in some ready to go players.

Kropp and Weslowski have been inconsistent to horrendous, Jordan brown is wishy washy at best, Wood has been serviceable but both he and Kropp are gone after next year.

Mazin is playing completely out of position and I feel terrible for him. Really hope he finds success. I think he has one year left so maybe a transfer's in store? Rod Brown is good but the rest of the DL is inconsistent to bad.

If we don't see 2-3 LBs and 2-3 DL transfer in or from JuCo in this class I'm gonna be incredibly worried. Both Maclin and Rogers could walk in the spring as grad transfers (although I'm not sure how that window works if they graduate in the spring/summer) so our offense could be limited next year depending on what happens. I trust Morris will get the offense right.

I hope Caponi does the same for the defense. If it's this bad again by all means fire him mid season. If he's truly running the same defense as Iowa St., it can work. We just clearly don't have the jimmies and joes to do so at this point in time.