Prosper looking to build most expensive high school stadium

[UNTLifer]

14 minutes ago, CaribbeanGreen said:

Yep. And it's just a steady dance north. I'm from East Dallas, have lived in Frisco now for 17 years.... Frisco has completely changed since I've been here and is at that "almost built out" phase Plano was at 20 years ago. Slowly, Prosper has become the next frontier, and after that it'll be Celina. Eventually, Plano becomes Richardson, Frisco becomes Plano, and so on.... 

Hate to see it.  When I was a sophomore at Denton High, I played on the JV baseball team.  Every year the JV ended their season playing in the Frisco tournament.  We played the varsity teams from places like Frisco, Pottsboro, Princeton, etc. that were 2A/rural schools at the time.  All that pretty land is gone now.  Guess I'm officially getting old.

[ipd054]

What also fails to get communicated is that this facility is used for all High Schools in the district not just one.  The 4 high schools will all use the facilities for Football, Soccer, and other field sports.   There is another stadium that is already over capacity for all the 9th grade, JV and Varsity sports.  They could spend $25M per campus or $100M for one world class stadium.

I lived in Katy when they were the top news for the stadium they built.  That venue had at least 1 event per night as well as the older stadium that was right next door.  Most weekends there would be 2-3 games.  I think this was the best way for Katy to spend the money on a venue.  It is an amazing stadium that is used year round.  I am pretty sure it will be the same there.

[NT80]

5 minutes ago, ipd054 said:

What also fails to get communicated is that this facility is used for all High Schools in the district not just one.  The 4 high schools will all use the facilities for Football, Soccer, and other field sports.   There is another stadium that is already over capacity for all the 9th grade, JV and Varsity sports.  They could spend $25M per campus or $100M for one world class stadium.

I lived in Katy when they were the top news for the stadium they built.  That venue had at least 1 event per night as well as the older stadium that was right next door.  Most weekends there would be 2-3 games.  I think this was the best way for Katy to spend the money on a venue.  It is an amazing stadium that is used year round.  I am pretty sure it will be the same there.

$100M for only 8,000 seats seems grossly overpriced to be a world class anything.  Class 2A schools have simple stadiums larger than 8,000 seats.   I heard the price was even 30% inflated for the expected price increases.  

[Cougar King]

I remember when the Berry Center was the crown jewel for high school football stadiums.

[NT93]

8 minutes ago, NT80 said:

$100M for only 8,000 seats seems grossly overpriced to be a world class anything.  Class 2A schools have simple stadiums larger than 8,000 seats.   I heard the price was even 30% inflated for the expected price increases.  

Your point is valid, but I think you have to go to 4A, maybe even 5A to get a stadium with 8,000 seats.

[DentonLurker]

6 hours ago, ipd054 said:

$100M for one world class stadium

This is my biggest issue with all of it. Why does a high school need a “world class stadium?”

[Coffee and TV]

13 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

This is my biggest issue with all of it. Why does a high school need a “world class stadium?”

Permian has had a book, movie, and tv show made about their football team and even they don't spend this kind of money on a stadium. 

[ipd054]

1 hour ago, Coffee and TV said:

Permian has had a book, movie, and tv show made about their football team and even they don't spend this kind of money on a stadium. 

The stadium cost $5.2Million in 1982 adjusted for inflation it would cost about $25M today.  And if you have ever been there it was a close copy of pre expansion Fouts.  Seating around 17K with flex up to  19K.  Concrete with metal benches. Track between you and the field, with OK site lines from a distance. 

The current cost of regulation in building is roughly 32%.  What this means is that you need to put a 32% premium to pre 2000 cost on anything you build today due to environmental, safety, and ADA type regulations.  So the cost of Ratliff if built today would be no less that $33M.  At the time it was built 1 school used the Stadium.  Now the two high schools, 6 middle schools and UTBP use it.

If Ector County were to build today, they would build something close to DATCU stadium (minus the wing zone).  They cost would be min $70M for several reasons if they did not include UTPB. They would have suites which would generate more money for the district at every event, technology set up for TV and streaming, better concessions and booter store.

DATCU if built today adjusted for income would cost just under $100M vs the $76M just 12 years ago.   They would keep Ratliff for other events, and the track. 

[VideoEagle]

2 hours ago, Coffee and TV said:

Permian has had a book, movie, and tv show made about their football team and even they don't spend this kind of money on a stadium. 

Odessa has not had anywhere near the growth Prosper has. There are new subdivisions in Prosper ISD that more than triple the number of homes in Odessa and aren't built yet. And developers are buying still more land for still more homes! They are not building the stadium for the students they have today - they are building for what they will have in five to seven years! 

[Matt from A700]

Before long it's going to be all new cookie cutter subdivisions and toll roads between 35, 75, 380 and the Oklahoma border. Yuck.

Maybe they should have named the town Stagnant instead of Prosper to prevent this out-of-control growth.

[Coffee and TV]

40 minutes ago, ipd054 said:

If Ector County were to build today

Sorry, but that's my point. I know they built in 82 when things were cheaper, I'm saying that even though they blew up in popularity they haven't shelled out $70 or $100 million for a new one. If UT Peanut Butter uses their field and is going D-1, then my post is moot because then you're talking about a much different kind of shared facility in that scenario. 

[Coffee and TV]

39 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

Odessa has not had anywhere near the growth Prosper has. There are new subdivisions in Prosper ISD that more than triple the number of homes in Odessa and aren't built yet. And developers are buying still more land for still more homes! They are not building the stadium for the students they have today - they are building for what they will have in five to seven years! 

They are building to keep up with the Jones's, plain and simple. Just like all these big ISDs are when it comes to football. There's nothing that says your football team will lose games if your new facilities seat 10k instead of 15k, or the locker rooms have 20 SEER air conditioners instead of 14. Just look at the SW Triangle of Dallas County and compare their success with the Katys and McKinneys and whoever else wants to build palaces for their high schoolers. 

[DentonLurker]

What it all boils down to for me is that districts are asking voters to approve stadiums that are way fancier than they need to be instead of investing in things the districts need to actually improve education, and in today’s world safety, for students.

[NT80]

1 hour ago, ipd054 said:

DATCU if built today adjusted for income would cost just under $100M vs the $76M just 12 years ago.   They would keep Ratliff for other events, and the track. 

NO WAY anyone could build DATCU Stadium with 31,000 seats, concrete and a full facade, club level and suite level, today for $100M.   We got a steal back then.  Construction costs now have skyrocketed.  The south endzone expansion at Smut is over $100M by itself, but it does include locker rooms and coaches offices.   Similar endzone facility being built at Texas Tech is costing $220M.

USF's new proposed on-campus stadium will seat 35K and is expected to cost $340M.  SDSU's new stadium opened last year, also seats 35,000 and cost $310M.

Edited September 29, 2023 by NT80

[greenminer]

Looking forward to seeing what a $200m stadium looks like.  10 years away?

[VideoEagle]

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

NO WAY anyone could build DATCU Stadium with 31,000 seats, concrete and a full facade, club level and suite level, today for $100M.   We got a steal back then.  Construction costs now have skyrocketed.  The south endzone expansion at Smut is over $100M by itself, but it does include locker rooms and coaches offices.   Similar endzone facility being built at Texas Tech is costing $220M.

USF's new proposed on-campus stadium will seat 35K and is expected to cost $340M.  SDSU's new stadium opened last year, also seats 35,000 and cost $310M.

You are absolutely right! Construction material costs have gone up exponentially. Home builders say it's a challenge to get workers without paying bonuses. At the time DATCU was built, I remember multiple news articles on NT getting an incredible deal for the stadium. 

[VideoEagle]

1 hour ago, DentonLurker said:

What it all boils down to for me is that districts are asking voters to approve stadiums that are way fancier than they need to be instead of investing in things the districts need to actually improve education, and in today’s world safety, for students.

No, districts cannot do that. The TXLEG passed a law requiring stadiums and athletic facilities to be split out into separate bond issues. No more rolling it all together and saying if you want schools with working wifi, plumbing and air conditioning you must also pay for a stadium. 

Also, most of the safety issues are required to be addressed now. I know Coppell has had to upgrade locks, is adding new fencing, and adding bullet-resistant film to all windows. Most was required to be in place before school started in September. 

[DentonLurker]

5 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

The TXLEG passed a law requiring stadiums and athletic facilities to be split out into separate bond issues.

I didn’t say anything about them combining projects. My point is districts are prioritizing athletics bonds over other bonds more directly related to education.

[NT93]

2 hours ago, Coffee and TV said:

They are building to keep up with the Jones's, plain and simple.

A local school district to me had a bond election to build an indoor facility (which passed by the way).  The superintendent said something to the effect of, “All the other local districts have indoor facilities and our kids deserve to have one too.” 

[El Paso Eagle]

Some nice conversations, but if I might ask, what does this have to do with UNT Football, and why is it on this forum?

[Cooley]

What’s crazy to me is that Prosper ain’t winning anything anytime soon. The best football is in SW Dallas County. Duncanville, DeSoto and SOC, with declining enrollments, all won state titles last year. (SOC was a repeat) There’s a good chance that Duncanville and possibly DeSoto repeat this year. 
 

I can understand if Aledo put a $90mm vote in front of its citizens with 11 State Championships; and counting. I don’t live in Prosper but you’d have to show me more than projected growth; to justify a stadium of this amount. 

 

[SilverEagle]

On 9/29/2023 at 11:48 AM, VideoEagle said:

Odessa has not had anywhere near the growth Prosper has. There are new subdivisions in Prosper ISD that more than triple the number of homes in Odessa and aren't built yet. And developers are buying still more land for still more homes! They are not building the stadium for the students they have today - they are building for what they will have in five to seven years! 

(I realize that this response will be moved to another form, but I just couldn't help myself.)

And we just finished another (almost) record hot summer. All of us in the metroplex watched our local news stations broadcast warnings from the people/clowns in charge of our electrical grid to please cut back on our electrical use lest we have rolling blackouts. And then we get to watch the weather reports that show us that we are in the middle of a severe drought and that very severe water restrictions are on the way. 

Where the hell is the electricity coming from, and where the hell is the water coming from so that all those developments, (too numerous to list here), are not going to overwhelm our systems like the tsunami that hit Japan back in 2011?

Edited October 1, 2023 by SilverEagle