It’s a Culture Problem

[MGNation92]

The University of North Texas - seen by most as a commuter campus for kids in DFW, seen as a last option for kids who don’t get into Texas or A&M or OU, seen as a jazz/music and liberal arts school. We have no traditions, no history of winning, no sports culture, no emphasis on student participation and school spirit. Majority of students go to school, get their degree, and get the hell out of Denton, never to return again and right back to their UT/A&M/OU t-shirt fandom with their parents

None of these things make us a desirable location for winning coaches. None of these things make students want to donate after they graduate, none of these things make people want to buy season tickets or go to games. 

@SilverEagle talks about how Hayden Fry was the last HC/AD to try to do this, to try and establish an athletic identity in the university, to make students and alum proud of their football team. That was 50 YEARS AGO. 

None of this will get better until Smatresk and more importantly, Mosley force a culture of athletics and athletic support. We’re diehards here on GMG but most graduates aren’t here and aren’t us. Until we find an athletic identity, nothing will get better, nobody is going to donate, and everybody will continue to say “looks like we suck again, same ole UNT”. Seth Littrell, as it stands, is our ceiling in football, because nobody cares and our administration for DECADES has done nothing to change it. I seriously respect the big money donors that annually light millions of dollars on fire in a waste to support this. I can completely understand why they dropped to FCS in the first place. Did it set us back decades? Absolutely. But that administration saw it, and they gave up. What will this administration do? Tread water like the last 50 years? Or will they step up and actually do something to show we, as a university, give a shit about having quality athletics programs. Basketball is our one saving grace, and Tony Benford nearly destroyed it all on his own. The problem is, we’re in Texas, and unless we’re consistently making Sweet 16’s or better, nobody’s gonna care about that either. The Maniacs are the one thing I’ve seen in my 10 years as a fan that have tried to instill any kind of pride and spirit in an athletic program. Outside of that? It’s crickets.

Until we fix the underlying problems of our administration that have been festering for half a century, nothing will matter, and nobody but us salty diehards will care.

 

 

 

[untjim1995]

2 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

The University of North Texas - seen by most as a commuter campus for kids in DFW, seen as a last option for kids who don’t get into Texas or A&M or OU, seen as a jazz/music and liberal arts school. We have no traditions, no history of winning, no sports culture, no emphasis on student participation and school spirit. Majority of students go to school, get their degree, and get the hell out of Denton, never to return again and right back to their UT/A&M/OU t-shirt fandom with their parents

None of these things make us a desirable location for winning coaches. None of these things make students want to donate after they graduate, none of these things make people want to buy season tickets or go to games. 

@SilverEagle talks about how Hayden Fry was the last HC/AD to try to do this, to try and establish an athletic identity in the university, to make students and alum proud of their football team. That was 50 YEARS AGO. 

None of this will get better until Smatresk and more importantly, Mosley force a culture of athletics and athletic support. We’re diehards here on GMG but most graduates aren’t here and aren’t us. Until we find an athletic identity, nothing will get better, nobody is going to donate, and everybody will continue to say “looks like we suck again, same ole UNT”. Seth Littrell, as it stands, is our ceiling in football, because nobody cares and our administration for DECADES has done nothing to change it. I seriously respect the big money donors that annually light millions of dollars on fire in a waste to support this. I can completely understand why they dropped to FCS in the first place. Did it set us back decades? Absolutely. But that administration saw it, and they gave up. What will this administration do? Tread water like the last 50 years? Or will they step up and actually do something to show we, as a university, give a shit about having quality athletics programs. Basketball is our one saving grace, and Tony Benford nearly destroyed it all on his own. The problem is, we’re in Texas, and unless we’re consistently making Sweet 16’s or better, nobody’s gonna care about that either. The Maniacs are the one thing I’ve seen in my 10 years as a fan that have tried to instill any kind of pride and spirit in an athletic program. Outside of that? It’s crickets.

Until we fix the underlying problems of our administration that have been festering for half a century, nothing will matter, and nobody but us salty diehards will care.

 

 

 

Yep.

Remember that Cerebus showed a graph during the RV days that Wren Baker also showed in his days as AD that UNT alums don’t give in any decent way, like 2% at most give back to athletics. I’d imagine it’s that way for the rest of the school, too, to be honest.

I’ll be interested to see how things are here in the 2030s and beyond, though. Our alumni since 2011 have seen us at least try to have a legitimately funded program. And Denton has turned into a place where students do want to go instead of settling on going there because it was cheap and close. Maybe that will help with giving from alumni in the next 5+ years ahead?

[Side.Show.Joe]

4 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

The University of North Texas - seen by most as a commuter campus for kids in DFW, seen as a last option for kids who don’t get into Texas or A&M or OU, seen as a jazz/music and liberal arts school. We have no traditions, no history of winning, no sports culture, no emphasis on student participation and school spirit. Majority of students go to school, get their degree, and get the hell out of Denton, never to return again and right back to their UT/A&M/OU t-shirt fandom with their parents

None of these things make us a desirable location for winning coaches. None of these things make students want to donate after they graduate, none of these things make people want to buy season tickets or go to games. 

@SilverEagle talks about how Hayden Fry was the last HC/AD to try to do this, to try and establish an athletic identity in the university, to make students and alum proud of their football team. That was 50 YEARS AGO. 

None of this will get better until Smatresk and more importantly, Mosley force a culture of athletics and athletic support. We’re diehards here on GMG but most graduates aren’t here and aren’t us. Until we find an athletic identity, nothing will get better, nobody is going to donate, and everybody will continue to say “looks like we suck again, same ole UNT”. Seth Littrell, as it stands, is our ceiling in football, because nobody cares and our administration for DECADES has done nothing to change it. I seriously respect the big money donors that annually light millions of dollars on fire in a waste to support this. I can completely understand why they dropped to FCS in the first place. Did it set us back decades? Absolutely. But that administration saw it, and they gave up. What will this administration do? Tread water like the last 50 years? Or will they step up and actually do something to show we, as a university, give a shit about having quality athletics programs. Basketball is our one saving grace, and Tony Benford nearly destroyed it all on his own. The problem is, we’re in Texas, and unless we’re consistently making Sweet 16’s or better, nobody’s gonna care about that either. The Maniacs are the one thing I’ve seen in my 10 years as a fan that have tried to instill any kind of pride and spirit in an athletic program. Outside of that? It’s crickets.

Until we fix the underlying problems of our administration that have been festering for half a century, nothing will matter, and nobody but us salty diehards will care.

 

 

 

I have to disagree. I work closely with young people that are headed to college. The vast majority of those students are selecting UNT because they feel the university fits their academic goals, and they believe is trending up compared to other universities. Last year I spoke with multiple students that selected UNT over Texas Tech, OU, & Oklahoma State. And these are students that graduated in the Top 10 of their graduating class. 

Athletics just needs to build a football program that will help promote the narrative these students are buying into. There is a reason UNT now has over 45,000 students, and it isn't because these kids can't get into UT, A&M, or Tech. 

[Rudy]

Yes.  It is absolutely a culture problem.  Every few years, a new coach has a name win, that SHOULD be a springboard for the program.  But, no, inevitably the shit hits the fan, and we spiral back down to the abyss.  We hire a new coach, and the cycle continues.

 

It's time to flush the whole culture down the shitter.  Find the root of the cancer, and cut it out of the UNT body.

[untjim1995]

6 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Yes.  It is absolutely a culture problem.  Every few years, a new coach has a name win, that SHOULD be a springboard for the program.  But, no, inevitably the shit hits the fan, and we spiral back down to the abyss.  We hire a new coach, and the cycle continues.

 

It's time to flush the whole culture down the shitter.  Find the root of the cancer, and cut it out of the UNT body.

Apathy is a cancer…and it’s all over the organs of the patient.

[CMJ]

Not sure what is the root cause, but it's absolutely a culture problem.  Basketball should be averaging 5-6K fans a game, with 7-9K for big ones given how good we've been the last few years.  We can't even come close to selling out a football game against a Pac-12 school.

 

Both my parents went to NT and I grew up in Denton.  The lack of fan support from the community (University and city) is still unbelievable to me after decades.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

2 hours ago, CMJ said:

Not sure what is the root cause, but it's absolutely a culture problem.  Basketball should be averaging 5-6K fans a game, with 7-9K for big ones given how good we've been the last few years.  We can't even come close to selling out a football game against a Pac-12 school.

 

Both my parents went to NT and I grew up in Denton.  The lack of fan support from the community (University and city) is still unbelievable to me after decades.

You and I both grew up here and you know the city by and large supports winning programs.  We see this at the high school levels and to some degree we have seen it with basketball over the last 4 years.  But our AD does little to try and get fans out.  Charging what we charge for GA tickets for the product we roll out, along with parking, doesn't bring people in.  For as long as I have been a UNT fan, our AD has always wanted to be "big time" with a subpar product.

[CMJ]

2 minutes ago, GoMeanGreen1999 said:

You and I both grew up here and you know the city by and large supports winning programs.  We see this at the high school levels and to some degree we have seen it with basketball over the last 4 years.  But our AD does little to try and get fans out.  Charging what we charge for GA tickets for the product we roll out, along with parking, doesn't bring people in.  For as long as I have been a UNT fan, our AD has always wanted to be "big time" with a subpar product.

I mean does Denton?  I feel like the city didn't even support the high school teams like they should have when I was a kid.  Granted, it's been eons since I regularly attended HS sports in Denton given I don't live there any more, but I doubt it's changed that much.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

2 hours ago, CMJ said:

I mean does Denton?  I feel like the city didn't even support the high school teams like they should have when I was a kid.  Granted, it's been eons since I regularly attended HS sports in Denton given I don't live there any more, but I doubt it's changed that much.

Well when Ryan was winning titles, people showed up in droves to the away games.  Same when Guyer did.  The championship game of the CBI tourney was 7,000? people.  That arena was rocking.

[SilverEagle]

Well, one attempt by Hayden Fry to, as he put it, "change the culture of losing" at North Texas was the Flying Worm logo. It disappeared for a while but has made a comeback.....as well it should. It is probably the only unique symbol/logo in the school's history.  It almost disappeared because the administrators who hated Hayden Fry wanted nothing to do with anything Hayden Fry.......including that very unique symbol/logo.

Ask around. Who is in charge of promotions? Who is in charge of the spirit groups. Who is in charge of making sure that our traditions and/or symbols (few as they are) of our traditions (cannon, model-T) are always well maintained and always visible to the student body at sporting events? 

[Collin1unt]

I thought UNT really flubbed when they didn't seriously target a PROVEN FBS winner at head coach. Consistent Regression Syndrome is the diagnosis. 

[Collin1unt]

BTW, if you're on this forum, and NOT a financial supporter of UNT, just logoff or don't complain. Seriously. You don't have standing. 

[ColoradoEagle]

16 hours ago, Collin1unt said:

BTW, if you're on this forum, and NOT a financial supporter of UNT, just logoff or don't complain. Seriously. You don't have standing. 

Yeah. Let's boil our fanbase down to the 700 or so fans who contribute monetarily and tell the rest to get lost. That's the ticket to sold out stadiums and arenas.

[meangreenbob]

23 hours ago, Collin1unt said:

I thought UNT really flubbed when they didn't seriously target a PROVEN FBS winner at head coach. Consistent Regression Syndrome is the diagnosis. 

And when one contemplates how much of an advanced warning they had concerning finding Littrell’s replacement it should clearly show all of us the depth of incompetence of this administration. 

[Matt]

17 hours ago, Collin1unt said:

BTW, if you're on this forum, and NOT a financial supporter of UNT, just logoff or don't complain. Seriously. You don't have standing. 

Again, one of the most idiotic takes repeated on this forum. If your diploma says North Texas, you certainly have standing. 

[untjim1995]

17 hours ago, Collin1unt said:

BTW, if you're on this forum, and NOT a financial supporter of UNT, just logoff or don't complain. Seriously. You don't have standing. 

Going by this HSO, we should have about 500 people at the next game.

[tmjerm]

2 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Going by this HSO, we should have about 500 people at the next game.

Well, by going to the games you're financially supporting.  But I dont think @Collin1unt is particularly wrong if he means an actual donor.  We need more money.  It doesnt have to be much, but please, please give what you can.  We need it so badly.  I don't think it's an elitist thing to say support your school financially.  Buy tickets, join the MGSF (even if it's just $250 or $25), join the NTAA....I think the point is that your greenbacks are the same as your vote.  Words are words but money actually talks.  We are all in different situations financially, but literal buy in does actually matter. 

[Matt]

27 minutes ago, tmjerm said:

Well, by going to the games you're financially supporting.  But I dont think @Collin1unt is particularly wrong if he means an actual donor.  We need more money.  It doesnt have to be much, but please, please give what you can.  We need it so badly.  I don't think it's an elitist thing to say support your school financially.  Buy tickets, join the MGSF (even if it's just $250 or $25), join the NTAA....I think the point is that your greenbacks are the same as your vote.  Words are words but money actually talks.  We are all in different situations financially, but literal buy in does actually matter. 

I think people are voting. They’d rather spend their money on something else than give it to a program that consistently under performs year in and year out. The same program that not only loses in “big” games with any kind of national attention, but gets absolutely embarrassed damn near every single time. From what it sounds like, the coach can’t even get the team to buy into what they’re trying to do this year, why should anyone else? 

[NT80]

These threads always show up when the football team starts 0-2.   

Where was this thread when NT won the NIT 6 months ago?

Check any fan forum of any 0-2 team now and you will find similar "fire the coach" and "fire the AD" and "where is the student support" threads.   

I get it, it's not what most thought we were buying into when we hired Morris.   

This is my 15th head football coach at North Texas to see.   They really shouldn't be evaluated until the end of their era, but it's hard not to be emotional when it's not going well...

Anyway, as much as some fans say it's a culture problem, or a student-body problem, or a Denton problem, it really just a football roster problem.   70,000 screaming UNT fans in DATCU Stadium would not have prevented Cal from winning that game.  Nor could Nick Saban have prevented it if he was our head coach with this roster.  It is what it is until we get better players and the next Mason Fine.

[emmitt01]

18 hours ago, Collin1unt said:

BTW, if you're on this forum, and NOT a financial supporter of UNT, just logoff or don't complain. Seriously. You don't have standing. 

I know this is hard to hear…but needs to he heard.

We simply cannot bitch, moan, and complain about how we aren’t at the level of programs we wish to emulate…and then cling to the “I’ll give/buy tickets/attend when (fill in the blank) happens” mantra.  
 

Giving/buying tickets/etc. makes you a share holder…find me the business that doesn’t listen exclusively to shareholders 

Edited September 11, 2023 by emmitt01

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, NT80 said:

These threads always show up when the football team starts 0-2.   

Where was this thread when NT won the NIT 6 months ago?

Check any fan forum of any 0-2 team now and you will find similar "fire the coach" and "fire the AD" and "where is the student support" threads.   

I get it, it's not what most thought we were buying into when we hired Morris.   

This is my 15th head football coach at North Texas to see.   They really shouldn't be evaluated until the end of their era, but it's hard not to be emotional when it's not going well...

Anyway, as much as some fans say it's a culture problem, or a student-body problem, or a Denton problem, it really just a football roster problem.   70,000 screaming UNT fans in DATCU Stadium would not have prevented Cal from winning that game.  Nor could Nick Saban have prevented it if he was our head coach with this roster.  It is what it is until we get better players and the next Mason Fine.

 

I need to reiterate again, because it cannot be overstated enough:  UNT beat FIU last year 52-14.  

Now, unless you want to argue we DID have the 2nd coming of Mason Fine in last year’s QB: Austin Aune, which, I believe that is a hill only you would occupy, then there is no possible way you can say it’s the roster (re:”The players suck now”).

[NT80]

9 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

 

I need to reiterate again, because it cannot be overstated enough:  UNT beat FIU last year 52-14.  

Now, unless you want to argue we DID have the 2nd coming of Mason Fine in last year’s QB: Austin Aune, which, I believe that is a hill only you would occupy, then there is no possible way you can say it’s the roster (re:”The players suck now”).

Sorry, but this is a different roster for us and a different roster for FIU.  Austin Aune, for all his faults, probably wins this game because of his experience.  That's not to say I want him back.  We can and should do better at QB.   Not sure we can yet. 

This is the FIU coach's second season.  Their "new" freshman QB did not play in our game last year, but he was a huge difference this year.   It is still players that didn't make plays, not the coaches.  We don't have enough good players yet, or they have not bought in to tackling yet, lol.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, emmitt01 said:

I know this is hard to hear…but needs to he heard.

We simply cannot bitch, moan, and complain about how we aren’t at the level of programs we wish to emulate…and then cling to the “I’ll give/buy tickets/attend when (fill in the blank) happens” mantra.  
 

Giving/buying tickets/etc. makes you a share holder…find me the business that doesn’t listen exclusively to shareholders 

People aren't blindly throwing money into a sinking ship just for shits and giggles, they generally have to be convinced that investing is worth their while. What has this program done to make people excited to hop on board?
 

[Pavlovs Eagle]

21 hours ago, Collin1unt said:

BTW, if you're on this forum, and NOT a financial supporter of UNT, just logoff or don't complain. Seriously. You don't have standing. 

Dumb take... and I donate.

[meaniegreenie]

4 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

I know this is hard to hear…but needs to he heard.

We simply cannot bitch, moan, and complain about how we aren’t at the level of programs we wish to emulate…and then cling to the “I’ll give/buy tickets/attend when (fill in the blank) happens” mantra.  
 

Giving/buying tickets/etc. makes you a share holder…find me the business that doesn’t listen exclusively to shareholders 

Been investing in this program for decades and the reverse-splits have taken me down to about 1 share now.

Can't remember the last time we got a dividend.