AAC Funding Competition

MeanGreenGlory · September 7, 2023

USF just landed a $25M gift from Tampa General Hospital to name part of their new athletic center.

I hear a lot of people on here pushing donation responsibility on the average fan. While I agree fans should do their part to support the program, very few individuals can make donations that are above $10–$20M, and those are the level donations that really move the needle in programs.

This made me wonder: Does our AD have anyone on staff who’s job it is to source donations from businesses and/or ultra-wealthy individuals?

If we don’t start pulling in more of these larger donations, we’ll fall further behind in the AAC, and sourcing these types of donations is strictly on the AD—not the fans.

NorthTexasWeLove · September 7, 2023

20 minutes ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

USF just landed a $25M gift from Tampa General Hospital to name part of their new athletic center.

I hear a lot of people on here pushing donation responsibility on the average fan. While I agree fans should do their part to support the program, very few individuals can make donations that are above $10–$20M, and those are the level donations that really move the needle in programs.

This made me wonder: Does our AD have anyone on staff who’s job it is to source donations from businesses and/or ultra-wealthy individuals?

If we don’t start pulling in more of these larger donations, we’ll fall further behind in the AAC, and sourcing these types of donations is strictly on the AD—not the fans.

USF knows they will eventually be in some version of the ACC when that conference gets PAC12'ed. They are putting plans in place to be competitive from a facility standpoint whenever it happens.

To your point about the AD, we don't hold that position accountable here at UNT. Countless people on here didn't want RV gone. Countless people thought WB did a marvelous job and wasn't putting his head in the sand, which he clearly was. The verdict is still out on JM, though we all know the whole thing about history and repeating.

El Paso Eagle · September 7, 2023

Have to love it when a hospital can donate that much money and then listen to their song and dance when they explain why healthcare costs are so high

MeanGreenGlory · September 7, 2023

22 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Have to love it when a hospital can donate that much money and then listen to their song and dance when they explain why healthcare costs are so high

Yeah, but I think this is why it’s important to go after businesses for these types of donations.

I’m no tax expert, so perhaps there’s a CPA on here that can clarify, but my understanding is that if you have enough profit, you can use substantial donations like this to drastically reduce your business taxes.

In other words, it can help make donations like this more of a wash for successful, well-managed businesses.

DentonLurker · September 7, 2023

I'm not a CPA, and you're right that it can be a deduction. It is not, however, a wash.

As far as the AD having staff who look for these types of donations... Yes, they do.

Our problem is we really haven't brought any new names into the fold in a long time. This is why I think fundraisers should all be paid commission, even though I know a lot of people don't like the idea of people getting paid commission on donations. At the very least, there should be goals and significant bonuses for fundraisers who excel.

Side.Show.Joe · September 8, 2023

4 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

USF knows they will eventually be in some version of the ACC when that conference gets PAC12'ed. They are putting plans in place to be competitive from a facility standpoint whenever it happens.

To your point about the AD, we don't hold that position accountable here at UNT. Countless people on here didn't want RV gone. Countless people thought WB did a marvelous job and wasn't putting his head in the sand, which he clearly was. The verdict is still out on JM, though we all know the whole thing about history and repeating.

Please explain? While Wren wasn't perfect (hanging on to Benford and Littrell far too long & not being able to juice the big money donors by the time he left), he did great things while at UNT. UNT built great facilities... Built a respected basketball program... Built a respected softball program... Dramatically increased our athletic budget.... Signed us multiple P5 home and home series.... & secured us a spot in the AAC. Wren is clearly the best AD i can remember at UNT.

My hope is that Mosley will surpass what Wren has done. So far, he has managed to insure multiple 7 home games seasons for us in the coming years. That's a good start. Hopefully, Mosley can get dirt turning on the AC expansion before next season starts. That is the biggest need, and it has to be addressed soon.

NorthTexasWeLove · September 8, 2023

10 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Please explain? While Wren wasn't perfect (hanging on to Benford and Littrell far too long & not being able to juice the big money donors by the time he left), he did great things while at UNT. UNT built great facilities... Built a respected basketball program... Built a respected softball program... Dramatically increased our athletic budget.... Signed us multiple P5 home and home series.... & secured us a spot in the AAC. Wren is clearly the best AD i can remember at UNT.

My hope is that Mosley will surpass what Wren has done. So far, he has managed to insure multiple 7 home games seasons for us in the coming years. That's a good start. Hopefully, Mosley can get dirt turning on the AC expansion before next season starts. That is the biggest need, and it has to be addressed soon.

UNT did great things with the basketball program while WB was here. Tip of the hat to him for that, seriously. But it took 18 months to get get it started.

Football staled, quickly. He started fishing for jobs 12-15 months out and the on and off the field product started to show signs of malpractice. He then bolted and left tons of unfinished business in his path. And he is completely aware of this.

Edited September 8, 2023 by NorthTexasWeLove

Side.Show.Joe · September 8, 2023

1 minute ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

UNT did great things with the basketball program while here. Tip of the hat to him for that, seriously. But it took 18 months to get get it started.

Football staled, quickly. He started fishing for jobs 12-15 months out and the on and off the field product started to show signs of malpractice. He then bolted and left tons of unfinished business in his path. And he is completely aware of this.

I don't disagree. I even mentioned some of those issues. But even despite those issues, Wren got more done than any other AD I can remember. And, I have to give him credit for it.

NorthTexasWeLove · September 8, 2023

10 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

I don't disagree. I even mentioned some of those issues. But even despite those issues, Wren got more done than any other AD I can remember. And, I have to give him credit for it.

100%. I am grateful for his contributions to our basketball program. I think it was done the right way with a very solid foundation. If he was handcuffed to Benford upon taking the job, then he should have said some things without saying specific things to alleviate him of that awful decision, which very well could've been the case.

He's sort of bent us over in footnall. Getting fleeced in contract negotiations, 2x. Getting trapped with those decisions of his. Looking for jobs when things went south which ultimately voided him of any serious decision making, firing or hiring. Then of course the gameday experience suffered, visibly.

Also, as sort of pointed out, ADs are responsible for major donations. Shoot, some ADs get hired at big boy schools specifically for their fundraising accumen. Granted I don't pay close attention to donor levels or amounts, but nothing big comes to mind that WB did in this very important aspect..

Edited September 8, 2023 by NorthTexasWeLove

Mike Jackson · September 8, 2023

5 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

USF knows they will eventually be in some version of the ACC when that conference gets PAC12'ed. They are putting plans in place to be competitive from a facility standpoint whenever it happens.

To your point about the AD, we don't hold that position accountable here at UNT. Countless people on here didn't want RV gone. Countless people thought WB did a marvelous job and wasn't putting his head in the sand, which he clearly was. The verdict is still out on JM, though we all know the whole thing about history and repeating.

100% truth here and no amount downvoting eye rolling reactions to it will make it less true. It also won’t stop our football program from being relegated to a new lower level FBS wilderness when it is created. When that happens I will be very upset aim my verbal fire at “the off my lawn” fans and alumni. 🤷🏽‍♂️.

I believe PSU did us a favor beating down that Mean Green Team thar quit on Coach McCarney. Otherwise they would have finished out the year with him and probably missed the opportunity to hire a candidate as “good” as Seth. But they let Dodge and Littrell languish too long and that is main reason UTSA surpassed us.

untjim1995 · September 8, 2023

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

100% truth here and no amount downvoting eye rolling reactions to it will make it less true. It also won’t stop our football program from being relegated to a new lower level FBS wilderness when it is created. When that happens I will be very upset aim my verbal fire at “the off my lawn” fans and alumni. 🤷🏽‍♂️.

I believe PSU did us a favor beating down that Mean Green Team thar quit on Coach McCarney. Otherwise they would have finished out the year with him and probably missed the opportunity to hire a candidate as “good” as Seth. But they let Dodge and Littrell languish too long and that is main reason UTSA surpassed us.

That Portland State game did us no favors. Don’t care if it got DMac and eventually RV canned. Losing by 59 points, at home, to a FCS school, on Homecoming, was as embarrassing a moment as any school has ever had.

Was getting SL and Wren Baker worth going thru that? Not to me…

Mike Jackson · September 8, 2023

2 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

That Portland State game did us no favors. Don’t care if it got DMac and eventually RV canned. Losing by 59 points, at home, to a FCS school, on Homecoming, was as embarrassing a moment as any school has ever had.

Was getting SL and Wren Baker worth going thru that? Not to me…

Consequently I don't think we are in tgf AAC today without that horrible sequence of events and Seth's tenure making it appear we were building. Hell he signed a 5 year extension in 2014! They might have continued his tenure into the 2016 with any sign of life from the team. That is the stuff of nightmares. A bad offense is one thing, boring and bad offense while losing is horrendous to live through.

untjim1995 · September 8, 2023

30 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

Consequently I don't think we are in tgf AAC today without that horrible sequence of events and Seth's tenure making it appear we were building. Hell he signed a 5 year extension in 2014! They might have continued his tenure into the 2016 with any sign of life from the team. That is the stuff of nightmares. A bad offense is one thing, boring and bad offense while losing is horrendous to live through.

Dickey and DMac both had similar offenses, which was have a running game and a bus driver for a QB. If that bus driver was good (Scott Hall, Derek Thompson), they tended to do well against conference foes. When we didn’t, it was just awful football.

Same could be said for these Air Raid offenses, where a legit QB makes the entire difference, but offense puts butts in seats, which is why we drew better under Dodge than we did under Dickey, why Littrell’s teams outdrew McCarney’s even after our HoD win. Boring won’t work here, but we go the polar opposite route and then can’t stop anyone and lose big too.

Mike Jackson · September 8, 2023

8 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Same could be said for these Air Raid offenses, where a legit QB makes the entire difference, but offense puts butts in seats, which is why we drew better under Dodge than we did under Dickey, why Littrell’s teams outdrew McCarney’s even after our HoD win.

When it comes to Dodge vs Dickey it is just inaccurate not to take into account the stadium upgrade. And boring winning with all other things being equal will always outdraw losing. If we roll out back to back 11 win seasons of like UTSA did doesn't matter what offense we run. As for McCarney vs Littrell, I think people were just more hopeful because we had everything in place to win with an offensive mind at the helm. I don't think it mattered that he was Air Raid, just having a complete passing game as a part of your offense was sufficient for more excitement.

PlummMeanGreen · September 8, 2023

I'm purdy' sure I heard (or read) Wren Baker talk about a similar financial arrangement for UNT such as South Florida has for their Athletic Center.

UNT needs to continue to build & add-on as if we are actually going to continue growing & start having a series of winning football seasons. Why wait? No one else in the NCAA is waiting; that is, those programs that have ambition. Like one college AD said: "He whose school stops participating in the NCAA facility arms race has already begun going backwards."

MeanGreenGlory · September 8, 2023

20 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

Our problem is we really haven't brought any new names into the fold in a long time. This is why I think fundraisers should all be paid commission, even though I know a lot of people don't like the idea of people getting paid commission on donations. At the very least, there should be goals and significant bonuses for fundraisers who excel.

I’m 100% on board with fundraisers earning commission and/or significant bonuses based on dollar amount milestones. Many large nonprofits and D.C. organizations have these types of compensation mechanisms in place because the organizations need the funds to survive. If you Google “fundraising jobs in D.C.” you’ll see a bunch pop up—many titles replace “fundraising” with “development,” but it’s usually the same or similar.

For D1 athletic departments these days, I see this type of corporate and big-money fundraising as a division within the revenue/sales department. One team in the department is responsible for driving ticket sales and small donor donations. Another team is responsible for securing larger donations from businesses and ultra-wealthy individuals/families. Both are provided with goals and bonus milestones based on their generated revenue. If a D1 AD is trying to fund everything off of University dollars and ticket sales, they’re going to struggle to be competitive. These larger donations are more challenging to secure because they’re relationship-driven and can often take 12–48 months to secure, but they’re absolutely necessary in today’s environment.

Edited September 8, 2023 by MeanGreenGlory

keith · September 8, 2023

This is an impressive agreement for USF and it's great to see a fellow AAC conference mate raising the bar. I obviously don't know the details about this, but while the "deal" is valued at $25M, I don't think USF is getting $25M in cash to do with what they want. It looks like Tampa General Hospital is funding space to expand its medical services to the community. Sounds like a win-win for all involved and the type of joint projects UNT should pursue with local/regional businesses.

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"The Tampa General Hospital Center for Athletic Excellence will be located adjacent to the stadium and feature clinical space, where TGH will provide behavioral health services, including assessments, treatment, therapies, career mentoring and more. The clinical space will benefit from research conducted in partnership with USF Health, and the services offered at the new location will be uniquely geared to support the needs of both the USF community and the broader Tampa Bay region."

ColoradoEagle · September 8, 2023

So long as I've followed the program (actually 20 years now), the AD has always been pretty awful about securing major donations. Related or unrelated is there never really seems to be any legwork done outside of city limits.

MeanGreenGlory · September 8, 2023

1 hour ago, ColoradoEagle said:

So long as I've followed the program (actually 20 years now), the AD has always been pretty awful about securing major donations. Related or unrelated is there never really seems to be any legwork done outside of city limits.

Agree. It’s long been “We don’t have the money. Our fans need to buy season tickets and donate more.”

While that statement is true, the notion that we need a team working on securing large donations is also true.

Think about the last 20 years of UNT athletics. Now think about what might be different today if our AD made it a point during that time to secure $60M in business donations (approximately $15M every five years). There are plenty of successful businesses in the DFW area, I’m sure some of which are owned or operated by UNT alumni. It’s time we start proactively building relationships with them to ramp up large donations.

I’m grateful for everything the Lovelaces and others have done to support our programs, and I hope they continue to do so. But if we want to be competitive in the American and beyond, we have to start sourcing additional big donations.

Case and point—the last number I heard we need to begin the Athletic Center expansion is $20M. We’ve been sitting on that project for years now. I guarantee if the AD hired a seasoned fundraiser with pre-existing relationships the DFW area, they could whip that together fairly quickly in the grand scheme of things. Give them a high base salary, a junior staff member for admin work and cold outreach, and hefty bonuses for every $5M donated. Make mission #1 the Athletic Center Expansion funding, and then turn them loose for all other funding needs and keeping previous donors warm for future capital calls.

I’ve never run an athletic department before, so there are many aspects of the job(s) that I’m simply unaware of. But at the same time, it’s obvious that the UNT AD has been missing basic business competencies like marketing, sales, fundraising, and customer support/experience for decades now and it’s really hurting us. I sincerely hope JM can build these fundamental business competencies within the department and right the ship.

untjim1995 · September 8, 2023

6 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

When it comes to Dodge vs Dickey it is just inaccurate not to take into account the stadium upgrade. And boring winning with all other things being equal will always outdraw losing. If we roll out back to back 11 win seasons of like UTSA did doesn't matter what offense we run. As for McCarney vs Littrell, I think people were just more hopeful because we had everything in place to win with an offensive mind at the helm. I don't think it mattered that he was Air Raid, just having a complete passing game as a part of your offense was sufficient for more excitement.

Dodge and Dickey both only coached at decrepit Fouts.

And Dodge’s teams inexpicably outdrew Dickey’s teams during our SBC run.

Edited September 8, 2023 by untjim1995

Mike Jackson · September 9, 2023

On 9/7/2023 at 8:33 PM, Side.Show.Joe said:

I don't disagree. I even mentioned some of those issues. But even despite those issues, Wren got more done than any other AD I can remember. And, I have to give him credit for it.

That just means the bar was really set low by his predecessors. The second Seth Extension was extreme malpractice laughably so. We aren't Vandy in the SEC facing juggernauts with fanbases 10 times the size of ours in conference every year. Under those conditions bowl appearances more years than not is an accomplishment. The second extension was a worse decision than bringing in Dodge with amateur support staff. At least that was a cheap move.