PAC 12 Realignment Talk Mega Thread (All 12 threads merged)

[Dannymacfan]

41 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I like to dog^&* on our rivals, too, but I don't follow this.  Lacking an on campus stadium seems more like a credibility/perception thing.  When we talk about sleeping giants, I think of crowds and wins first, not facility location.

Do some of y'all have a hard time processing Memphis bball as a giant because they play in a city arena?

Just trying to understand.

You have always seemed to have a soft spot for UTSA.  Just my observation.  Oh and yeah the Alamodome is a shithole.  And most fans out there seem to agree with me on that.

[C Rod]

 

Sleep well, Mean Green Nation. 

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, Dannymacfan said:

You have always seemed to have a soft spot for UTSA.  Just my observation.  Oh and yeah the Alamodome is a shithole.  And most fans out there seem to agree with me on that.

You're muted until I get word that you know where our moniker really comes from.

Edited August 13, 2023 by greenminer

[NT80]

3 hours ago, TripleGrad said:

UTSA football was almost undefeated in 2021 and was ranked as high as #15 in the nation.  They've won back to back conference championships, and have been ranked in the top 25 for the past 2 years, and they pull 30K people to their games.  Let's give them credit, they've created a lot of buzz around the brand very quickly.

More evidence that winning builds brands a LOT faster than facilities do.

USF was once like UTSA, winning.   Then Head Coach Jim Leavitt hit a player and lied about it, their program took a turn, and they haven't recovered.  Coaching matters a LOT more than facilities do.

[NT80]

I like the MAP....but the Smut player almost ruins it....

[TripleGrad]

4 hours ago, NT80 said:

I like the MAP....but the Smut player almost ruins it....

 

But would you keep the AAC name, or adopt the PAC moniker?  PAC:  Pan-American Conference?

The map could use Air Force and Colorado State to fill the gap,

Edited August 13, 2023 by TripleGrad

[97and03]

On 8/11/2023 at 4:58 PM, UNTLifer said:

They usually do.

 

**I apologize, but it was just too easy.

[UNTethered Eagle]

9 hours ago, ColoradoEagle said:

The dogshit reference was towards USF, not UTSA. I get the recent football success argument for UTSA, but I think they have foundational issues in their athletic department that they need to resolve in the next few years. 

This 👆.

[untcampbell]

Might have missed this discussion, but who will the ACC take as they fill anticipated holes in its roster of teams?

 

GMG

 

[C Rod]

 

 

 

[C Rod]

 

 

[MeanGreenGlory]

A few observations as I read comments on Twitter/X around realignment:

1) The Dodge era set UNT football back decades. Dickey had a solid run, and had we made a better hire after Dickey, we might have gotten out of the Sun Belt sooner, and that success could have had time to compound to make us a P5 no-brainer today.
 

2) Littrell had two good seasons, and I’m grateful for that, but recency bias is a MASSIVE factor in the public discourse around all of this. There are AAC/MWC/PAC4 fans who aren’t familiar with our program and think UTSA is more valuable than UNT solely because their football team has had success the past two years. Our lack of recent football success is our Achilles heel right now. If we are “left behind” again, it’ll likely be due to the fact that we accepted Dodge’s, McCarney’s, and Littrell’s mediocre results for too long and didn’t make the decision to find a winning coach sooner.

3) Football is truly diving all this. Basketball is an afterthought. Golf, women’s soccer, etc. don’t get any mentions.

 

If you have some time, get on Twitter/X and make some noise about UNT. It’s free to do, and can help shift the public narrative.

[emmitt01]

28 minutes ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

A few observations as I read comments on Twitter/X around realignment:

1) The Dodge era set UNT football back decades. Dickey had a solid run, and had we made a better hire after Dickey, we might have gotten out of the Sun Belt sooner, and that success could have had time to compound to make us a P5 no-brainer today.
 

2) Littrell had two good seasons, and I’m grateful for that, but recency bias is a MASSIVE factor in the public discourse around all of this. There are AAC/MWC/PAC4 fans who aren’t familiar with our program and think UTSA is more valuable than UNT solely because their football team has had success the past two years. Our lack of recent football success is our Achilles heel right now. If we are “left behind” again, it’ll likely be due to the fact that we accepted Dodge’s, McCarney’s, and Littrell’s mediocre results for too long and didn’t make the decision to find a winning coach sooner.

3) Football is truly diving all this. Basketball is an afterthought. Golf, women’s soccer, etc. don’t get any mentions.

 

If you have some time, get on Twitter/X and make some noise about UNT. It’s free to do, and can help shift the public narrative.

I’m with you, with one crucial point of clarification.  We failed to get rid of Dodge, McCarney, and Littrel because it was financially difficult to buy them out…and we had FAR MORE people demanding we get rid of them than we had people giving to the MGSF and buying season tickets.   Instead we sat around hoping a few big money donors would bail us out.  
 

I am not a rich man, by any stretch.  But if every person bitching that we haven’t done enough to position ourselves for advancement gave at just my level…we’d be the #1 candidate to move up from the AAC guaranteed.  

We have far too many people who have for years had a “I’ll give if” or “I’ll attend if” attitude…and are now actually confused that we are in the spot we are in. 

[NT80]

56 minutes ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

A few observations as I read comments on Twitter/X around realignment:

1) The Dodge era set UNT football back decades. Dickey had a solid run, and had we made a better hire after Dickey, we might have gotten out of the Sun Belt sooner, and that success could have had time to compound to make us a P5 no-brainer today.
 

2) Littrell had two good seasons, and I’m grateful for that, but recency bias is a MASSIVE factor in the public discourse around all of this. There are AAC/MWC/PAC4 fans who aren’t familiar with our program and think UTSA is more valuable than UNT solely because their football team has had success the past two years. Our lack of recent football success is our Achilles heel right now. If we are “left behind” again, it’ll likely be due to the fact that we accepted Dodge’s, McCarney’s, and Littrell’s mediocre results for too long and didn’t make the decision to find a winning coach sooner.

3) Football is truly diving all this. Basketball is an afterthought. Golf, women’s soccer, etc. don’t get any mentions.

 

If you have some time, get on Twitter/X and make some noise about UNT. It’s free to do, and can help shift the public narrative.

I agree Football is driving the realignment bus.  Lesson learned for all you “Let’s be a basketball school” folks. 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by NT80

[meangreenbob]

1 hour ago, emmitt01 said:

I’m with you, with one crucial point of clarification.  We failed to get rid of Dodge, McCarney, and Littrel because it was financially difficult to buy them out…and we had FAR MORE people demanding we get rid of them than we had people giving to the MGSF and buying season tickets.   Instead we sat around hoping a few big money donors would bail us out.  
 

I am not a rich man, by any stretch.  But if every person bitching that we haven’t done enough to position ourselves for advancement gave at just my level…we’d be the #1 candidate to move up from the AAC guaranteed.  

We have far too many people who have for years had a “I’ll give if” or “I’ll attend if” attitude…and are now actually confused that we are in the spot we are in. 

1) It was financially difficult to buy them out because we lacked the wisdom, insight and knowledge to negotiate quality contracts to begin with.  We were foolish  

2) none of those former coaches were quality hires. The one that hurt us the most, that caused the most damage was Littrell.

3) UTSA outsmarted UNT. Football is king and that’s where USTA placed their bet. Some mock the lack of success for their other sports but that can change quickly if included in the new conference with better exposure and income. 

4) some of you mock and criticize the state of their off campus “climate controlled”football facility. Let’s see how the Cal game plays out for us. Pray for a cold front. 

We were outsmarted. Their people were and are smarter than our people. 
 

I said time was of the essence. I was serious. 

Oh, let’s not forget the fact that they really have no competition for the entertainment dollar, are located in a tourist city with the Alamo and Riverwalk and a location easy to reach by air travel. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by meangreenbob

[UNTethered Eagle]

1 hour ago, meangreenbob said:

1) It was financially difficult to buy them out because we lacked the wisdom, insight and knowledge to negotiate quality contracts to begin with.  We were foolish  

2) none of those former coaches were quality hires. The one that hurt us the most, that caused the most damage was Littrell.

3) UTSA outsmarted UNT. Football is king and that’s where USTA placed their bet. Some mock the lack of success for their other sports but that can change quickly if included in the new conference with better exposure and income. 

4) some of you mock and criticize the state of their off campus “climate controlled”football facility. Let’s see how the Cal game plays out for us. Pray for a cold front. 

We were outsmarted. Their people were and are smarter than our people. 
 

I said time was of the essence. I was serious. 

Oh, let’s not forget the fact that they really have no competition for the entertainment dollar, are located in a tourist city with the Alamo and Riverwalk and a location easy to reach by air travel. 

I think you might be giving them a little too much credit. Not knocking their football success, but their semi-monopolized market is their major selling point. 

 

A 7th year senior QB doesn't hurt either. BTW they didn't exactly blow us out last season.

[scratch1976]

the new PAAC! 🍻

[ColoradoEagle]

3 hours ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

If you have some time, get on Twitter/X and make some noise about UNT. It’s free to do, and can help shift the public narrative.

Extremely fortunate that other schools’ fans don’t make realignment decisions. 

[Coach Andy Mac]

3 hours ago, meangreenbob said:

1) It was financially difficult to buy them out because we lacked the wisdom, insight and knowledge to negotiate quality contracts to begin with.  We were foolish  

2) none of those former coaches were quality hires. The one that hurt us the most, that caused the most damage was Littrell.

3) UTSA outsmarted UNT. Football is king and that’s where USTA placed their bet. Some mock the lack of success for their other sports but that can change quickly if included in the new conference with better exposure and income. 

4) some of you mock and criticize the state of their off campus “climate controlled”football facility. Let’s see how the Cal game plays out for us. Pray for a cold front. 

We were outsmarted. Their people were and are smarter than our people. 
 

I said time was of the essence. I was serious. 

Oh, let’s not forget the fact that they really have no competition for the entertainment dollar, are located in a tourist city with the Alamo and Riverwalk and a location easy to reach by air travel. 

Excellent analysis.  And as much as it hurts to hear it we need to learn from history.

UTSA screwed up by not raising the funds needed for an indoor practice facility and I think that may hurt them in the long run.

Traylor was extremely fortunate to inherit a QB like Frank Harris who is not NFL worthy but a fantastic college player. That guy has singlehandedly won a lot a big games for them.  Him getting all of the medical redshirts and extra covid years is unprecedented really.  They have had the best possible luck at the most important position on the team.

[untphd]

1 hour ago, Coach Andy Mac said:

Excellent analysis.  And as much as it hurts to hear it we need to learn from history.

UTSA screwed up by not raising the funds needed for an indoor practice facility and I think that may hurt them in the long run.

Traylor was extremely fortunate to inherit a QB like Frank Harris who is not NFL worthy but a fantastic college player. That guy has singlehandedly won a lot a big games for them.  Him getting all of the medical redshirts and extra covid years is unprecedented really.  They have had the best possible luck at the most important position on the team.

It will be the super seniors 7th season.

[GrandGreen]

5 hours ago, meangreenbob said:

1) It was financially difficult to buy them out because we lacked the wisdom, insight and knowledge to negotiate quality contracts to begin with.  We were foolish  

2) none of those former coaches were quality hires. The one that hurt us the most, that caused the most damage was Littrell.

3) UTSA outsmarted UNT. Football is king and that’s where USTA placed their bet. Some mock the lack of success for their other sports but that can change quickly if included in the new conference with better exposure and income. 

4) some of you mock and criticize the state of their off campus “climate controlled”football facility. Let’s see how the Cal game plays out for us. Pray for a cold front. 

We were outsmarted. Their people were and are smarter than our people. 
 

I said time was of the essence. I was serious. 

Oh, let’s not forget the fact that they really have no competition for the entertainment dollar, are located in a tourist city with the Alamo and Riverwalk and a location easy to reach by air travel. 

Outsmarted by UTSA?

Football maybe king but it is not everything.

I am elated that NT did not have to sacrifice other sports like softball, soccer, and golf just to maintain a competitive football program. 

You are also IMO discounting the huge advantage UTSA has being in San Antonio, the sixth largest city in the USA.  No pro football and only one D1 football team (UT) within an hour drive.

Littrell was a very questionable hire in hindsight, but the problem was not in his hiring; but the big second contract NT foolishly gave him.

 

[DentonLurker]

6 hours ago, NT80 said:

I agree Football is driving the realignment bus.  Lesson learned for all you “Let’s be a basketball school” folks. 

 

Gonzaga seems to be okay so far. May even be on the Big 12’s radar because of their basketball.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

11 hours ago, NT80 said:

I agree Football is driving the realignment bus.  Lesson learned for all you “Let’s be a basketball school” folks. 

 

Football is king. But really good basketball moves the needle. 

[NT80]

8 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Football is king. But really good basketball moves the needle. 

A combo of good football and basketball will get you an interview at a higher level.  But it's actually location (media market) that moves the needle for the hire.  SDSU is a perfect example.  Good football and basketball recently and prime spot in Southern Cal after USC and UCLA left.   Cincy, Houston, and Arizona also received bonus points for their good basketball but it was location and football that brought the invites.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 minute ago, NT80 said:

A combo of good football and basketball will get you an interview at a higher level.  But it's actually location (media market) that moves the needle for the hire.  SDSU is a perfect example.  Good football and basketball recently and prime spot in Southern Cal after USC and UCLA left.   Cincy, Houston, and Arizona also received bonus points for their good basketball but it was location and football that brought the invites.

Cincy, UH and Arizona have historically good basketball programs. SDSU has a historically good basketball program. 

But yeah, location is often the meal ticket. Utsa has awful basketball and terrible athletic funding. And they're catching shit for that even during their football golden years.