PAC 12 Realignment Talk Mega Thread (All 12 threads merged)

El Paso Eagle · August 7, 2023

Mike Jackson · August 7, 2023

1 hour ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Their cowardice is costing them a potential $19 million per year by going to the Big12.

Cowardice that is bit of an overstatement. I barely watch Apple TV+ and I am all about the Apple environment. Other than Foundation (an extremely unque show) rarely think of visiting the app board looking for something to watch. As you go east from the Pacific time zone the far less likely a random fan is going to shutoff scrolling between games on Fox, NBC, ESPN, or ABC to focus on a Pac 12 game on Apple. How many sports bars east of Denver were going to sign up for Apple TV+ which would be unless to them except on Friday and Saturday nights when Oregon, Stanford, Colorado, or Washington were on? Also it was my understanding that the Pac 12 was on the hook for production cost. Apple has no experience presenting American football. And if you follow futbol (soccer) the broadcast of Messi's debut was fubared from what I hear. I hate all of this as much as any fan. But the programs left behind were just being pragmatic. Colorado lost money when they let pie in dreams and wounded ego make them leave the Big 12. I sincerely doubt they would even equal the 31 million the Big 12 is going to get once you factor in the production costs.

Y’all can roll your eyes at my suggestions to the conferences to reorganize their non-revenue sports into more regional conferences to save more on travel and improve the student athlete experience. Men basketball at most 80% of programs in G5 conferences are probably operating at a deficit so consider them non-revenue also. Dragging these nonrevenue sports into 3 time zone G5 super conferences just don't make sense. A good CSU football team vs a good USF football team in late October Saturaday should be entertaining and make sense. USF vs CSU in basketball on Monday-Thursday during the semester won't get many TV viewers. So why are we committed championing the creation of a conference forcing them to do that just to have the Football money?

ColoradoEagle · August 7, 2023

MWC hopes dashed.

GMG_Dallas · August 7, 2023

2 hours ago, Cerebus said:

A whole lot of PAC presidents didn't think it was likely.

Salsa_Verde · August 7, 2023

3 hours ago, Cerebus said:

Cause they don't have to pay anything as long as the PAC invites enough members?

Say they don’t have to pay anything, why would these (MWC) presidents vote to leave a conference that has guaranteed money to a conference that can’t guarantee anything to them. I think you’re way overvaluing the “PAC” brand as it stands now.

C Rod · August 7, 2023

Wow. Guess this means Stanford is going independent and/or when the Big Ten calls.

Cerebus · August 7, 2023

45 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Apple didn't pull the deal when OU/UW bolted. If AU still wanted to sign that deal they could have.

Cerebus · August 7, 2023

37 minutes ago, C Rod said:

Wow. Guess this means Stanford is going independent and/or when the Big Ten calls.

MeanGreenGlory · August 7, 2023

4 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Wow. The ACC is reportedly in the beginning stages of dismantling like the PAC12 just did. Why join the next most unstable conference where you know the best teams are leaving and you’ll have to fly all the way across the country for every road conference game?

Cerebus · August 7, 2023

43 minutes ago, Salsa_Verde said:

Say they don’t have to pay anything, why would these (MWC) presidents vote to leave a conference that has guaranteed money to a conference that can’t guarantee anything to them. I think you’re way overvaluing the “PAC” brand as it stands now.

Look I am no PAC fan boy. If they survive his it is most likely bad news for us, because they will more than likely strip some members from the AAC.

However, it's really hard to kill a conference. Whenever people were all over the internet crowing about the death of CUSA i said there was very little chance it would die, because:

Being a D1 Multi Sport conference gives you access to NCAA tourney units.
Being a D1 FBS conference gives you the above, and access to the CFP payout.
In the case of the PAC, being a A5 conference gives you the above, and an extra CFP share, and NCAA student athlete compensation rule making/voting.

That's tens of millions of ~~dollars~~ reasons a year why a modern conference won't die.

CUSA is still alive, I expect the PAC will be as well in a few years. That's despite the fact we should all be praying that either 1) We are part of a new AAC/PAC teamup, or 2) the PAC drops dead so they can't steal any AAC teams.

Cerebus · August 7, 2023

1 minute ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

Wow. The ACC is reportedly in the beginning stages of dismantling like the PAC12 just did. Why join the next most unstable conference where you know the best teams are leaving and you’ll have to fly all the way across the country for every road conference game?

Because the ACC grant of rights is (reportedly) iron clad.

The ACC Grant of Rights grants all TV income rights to the ACC conference until 2036.
Teams can pay an exit fee and leave the conference before 2036, but the TV rights do not revert back to the team.
Instead, the ACC retains the TV rights and revenue, until 2036.
There are seven schools that would like to leave the ACC because they believe they can make more elsewhere, however there are seven that do not believe that and want to hold the ACC together.
The ACC GOR is not public, however it pretty clear that the vote to dissolve the ACC or change the rights would require more than seven votes. Otherwise it would have already happened.

Now the seven who want to leave, especially FSU, have been saber rattling about "forcing" thier way out of the ACC for years now. The ACC has not budged.

FSU's latest gambit is to claim that since the GOR doesn't contain a "choice of law" clause, they should be able to use Florida law to claim sovereign immunity. If you remember the Mike Leach/Texas Tech lawsuit, TT used that law to absolve themselves of liability.

Now I am not a lawyer, but according to some sports law reporting, that argument doesn't seem to hold a lot of water. TT/Leach was a Texas contract whose jurisdiction was the state courts. The multi-state ACC GOR is not, in federal courts Florida's sovereign immunity won't hold.

If FSU could get it out they would be have left a lot sooner than now. They are stuck.

GMG_Dallas · August 7, 2023

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

Apple didn't pull the deal when OU/UW bolted. If AU still wanted to sign that deal they could have.

Hard to sign a deal when it's apparent your fellow business partners are getting cold feet. My point was the deal wasn't bad for the PAC12, it was bad for Oregon and Washington. Once they bailed, the dynamics changed.

C Rod · August 7, 2023

🎪🎡🎠🤡🤹‍♀️

Jonnyeagle · August 7, 2023

So why does fing ESPN get to decide all this crap? They seem to be broke and laying off long time employees. Who gives them the right to screw up everything? I hate ESPN!

Mike Jackson · August 8, 2023

1 hour ago, Jonnyeagle said:

So why does fing ESPN get to decide all this crap? They seem to be broke and laying off long time employees. Who gives them the right to screw up everything? I hate ESPN!

I can definitely understand the anti ESPN sentiment. However ALL CFB problems can be traced back to the greed of the schools. As the payouts for their media rights, ticket sales and etc skyrocketed, that money could've went to education. These programs have been run like business without the real financial responsibility to be 100% self sufficient and turn a profit. Looking at our own program I don't believe it could responsibly pay a head coach a million dollars if the mandate was for the program to have a balanced budget.

There was always enough money to go around for about a 100 universities to play FBS. At least half of all media revenue generated should be in a pot distributed equally to give each program an operating budget floor. A system where UCLA is making 4 times more than Cal within the same university system playing the same level of sport is just ridiculous. And there are more egregious examples of this in other states that we are just comfortable with because that is just the way it has always been. The BUSINESS of football made Haden Fry leave. Because our program wasn't getting what it deserved base on its on the field performance. And make no mistake this will continue with this super conference system. These teams can't play everyone in their conference and even inside conferences their strength of schedules can be very different. Conferences won't even have true champions unless they have a in conference playoff. So it is the colleges that were always willing to take a massive 💩on tradition for bigger checks. Now they have become so dependent on those checks living beyond their means that budget wise many can't say no for the good of their student athletes. Their long standing hypocrisy is now laid bare in the destruction of a great conference. And now their long time Rose Bowl partner/rival is like Marilyn Monroe bastardized for 2023 with a BBL, caterpillar fake lashes, cartoonish makeup, and 20 pounds of saline in her breast. Very appropriate that the last official Pac 12 game will be in a dome staduim (looking nothing like the sun drenched packed stadiums of a late afternoon in Berkeley, Tucson, or Eugene with mountains in the background) in Las Vegas where hubris and greed has been the downfall of many. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Edited August 8, 2023 by Mike Jackson

dodgefan · August 8, 2023

13 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

Meh. Those schools are already recruiting DFW.

Yes they are, but if you think that's not going to dramatically increase, you are extremely naive.

NorthTexasWeLove · August 8, 2023

3 minutes ago, dodgefan said:

Yes they are, but if you think that's not going to dramatically increase, you are extremely naive.

It won't. Recruiting is a national undertaking with that level of TV money. They go get the best they can snab regardless of location. It's been this way for a decade plus. Go look at AZ, AZ St, Utah, and Colorados offer sheets. You'll see.

wardly · August 8, 2023

Stanford and Cal to ACC?

emmitt01 · August 8, 2023

6 minutes ago, wardly said:

Stanford and Cal to ACC?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38152204/acc-begin-discussing-cal-stanford-additions

DentonLurker · August 8, 2023

56 minutes ago, dodgefan said:

Yes they are, but if you think that's not going to dramatically increase, you are extremely naive.

We will have to agree to disagree. As @NorthTexasWeLove said, coaches already go where they need to to get talent. For almost all, if not all, programs that already includes Texas.

UNTLifer · August 8, 2023

12 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38152204/acc-begin-discussing-cal-stanford-additions

That makes a manure load of sense. Two institutions essentially on the CA coast joining the Atlantic Coast Conference.

wardly · August 8, 2023

42 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

That makes a manure load of sense. Two institutions essentially on the CA coast joining the Atlantic Coast Conference.

USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington now in same conference as Rutgers in all sports so if the money it there it evidently make sense.

NT93 · August 8, 2023

4 minutes ago, wardly said:

USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington now in same conference as Rutgers in all sports so if the money it there it evidently make sense.

True, but there’s something very unstable about teams on the PACIFIC coast playing in the ATLANTIC COAST Conference🤔😂

TIgreen01 · August 8, 2023

2 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

I can definitely understand the anti ESPN sentiment. However ALL CFB problems can be traced back to the greed of the schools. As the payouts for their media rights, ticket sales and etc skyrocketed, that money could've went to education. These programs have been run like business without the real financial responsibility to be 100% self sufficient and turn a profit. Looking at our own program I don't believe it could responsibly pay a head coach a million dollars if the mandate was for the program to have a balanced budget.

There was always enough money to go around for about a 100 universities to play FBS. At least half of all media revenue generated should be in a pot distributed equally to give each program an operating budget floor. A system where UCLA is making 4 times more than Cal within the same university system playing the same level of sport is just ridiculous. And there are more egregious examples of this in other states that we are just comfortable with because that is just the way it has always been. The BUSINESS of football made Haden Fry leave. Because our program wasn't getting what it deserved base on its on the field performance. And make no mistake this will continue with this super conference system. These teams can't play everyone in their conference and even inside conferences their strength of schedules can be very different. Conferences won't even have true champions unless they have a in conference playoff. So it is the colleges that were always willing to take a massive 💩on tradition for bigger checks. Now they have become so dependent on those checks living beyond their means that budget wise many can't say no for the good of their student athletes. Their long standing hypocrisy is now laid bare in the destruction of a great conference. And now their long time Rose Bowl partner/rival is like Marilyn Monroe bastardized for 2023 with a BBL, caterpillar fake lashes, cartoonish makeup, and 20 pounds of saline in her breast. Very appropriate that the last official Pac 12 game will be in a dome staduim (looking nothing like the sun drenched packed stadiums of a late afternoon in Berkeley, Tucson, or Eugene with mountains in the background) in Las Vegas where hubris and greed has been the downfall of many. 🤷🏽‍♂️

You’re right about it coming down to the schools, but a little off on the reasons. Forget football. All of us are competing against each other as schools, first. Competing for the best teachers, facilities, etc so we can attract top students and then turn them back into donors and the cycle feeds into itself. It’s proven that big time football programs help drive up donations, student applications and a host of other things that all lead to more money for the school. Nobody is fixing this football conference problem without first addressing the how schools are funded. Pay attention to who makes conference affiliation decisions. It’s not the athletic department. It’s the Presidents.