Big 12 Expansion rumors over?

JT Hammons · July 13, 2023

https://www.deseret.com/2023/7/12/23789660/big-12-football-media-days-brett-yormark-conference-expansion-talk-byu-oklahoma-texas-pac-12-utah

Yormark changing his tune and said he never meant to imply the Big 12 was going to add any more teams. Looks like Pac 12 safe for now.

DentonStang · July 13, 2023

No PAC team was ever going to move to B12. It's a ridiculous scenario contrived by B12 propaganda efforts

meanrob · July 13, 2023

“Relative to expansion, I said coming out of our spring meetings (in West Virginia) that we have a plan. And we have a plan for expansion. And I am not really going to address it today,” Yormark said. “We do have a plan, and hopefully we can execute that plan sooner than later."

“But as I have always said, I love the composition of this conference right now..."

This ain't over. What was he supposed to say, "Yeah we're going after...."

NT80 · July 13, 2023

1 hour ago, meanrob said:

“Relative to expansion, I said coming out of our spring meetings (in West Virginia) that we have a plan. And we have a plan for expansion. And I am not really going to address it today,” Yormark said. “We do have a plan, and hopefully we can execute that plan sooner than later."

“But as I have always said, I love the composition of this conference right now..."

This ain't over. What was he supposed to say, "Yeah we're going after...."

I agree, it's not over. Big12 is just waiting for the hammer to drop with the PAC media rights deal, like everyone else. Then, PAC schools will be able to compare apples to apples.

UNTLifer · July 13, 2023

45 minutes ago, NT80 said:

I agree, it's not over. Big12 is just waiting for the hammer to drop with the PAC media rights deal, like everyone else. Then, PAC schools will be able to compare apples to apples.

Yep. Don’t want to look like they are tampering.

greenminer · July 14, 2023

Does CO like it in PAC12 country? Always seemed weird to me. They were a charter member of the Big 8, and just made sense there.

NT80 · July 14, 2023

Brett Yormark Eyeing Potential Big 12 Expansion on Both Coasts

At the outset of Big 12 media days, its commissioner delivered some veiled messages that speak to how the conference’s outlook has changed during his tenure.

https://www.si.com/college/2023/07/13/big-12-media-days-brett-yormark-potential-expansion

Edited July 14, 2023 by NT80

Green Otaku · July 14, 2023

8 hours ago, DentonStang said:

No PAC team was ever going to move to B12. It's a ridiculous scenario contrived by B12 propaganda efforts

It's also funny seeing SMU/SDSU posters on different boards coming to the defense of the Pac12.

Mike Jackson · July 14, 2023

14 hours ago, DentonStang said:

No PAC team was ever going to move to B12. It's a ridiculous scenario contrived by B12 propaganda efforts

The most effective "propoganda" released during this entire cycle was the Pac 12 school presidents talking about the future of their conference and membership in it being conditional. The other is piece of the that propoganda is the schools not signing a grant of rights extension. They could easily sign an iron clad grant of rights agreement with a length (past 5 years) to be determined once a primary media partner is found. The Pac 12 hasn't put forth a unified front but it's Big 12 propoganda? 🙄. If they were unified and committed to stay together (whatever the size of the payout), SMU and SDSU would at the very least have definitive Yes or No on expansion.

DentonStang · July 14, 2023

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

The most effective "propoganda" released during this entire cycle was the Pac 12 school presidents talking about the future of their conference and membership in it being conditional. The other is piece of the that propoganda is the schools not signing a grant of rights extension. They could easily sign an iron clad grant of rights agreement with a length (past 5 years) to be determined once a primary media partner is found. The Pac 12 hasn't put forth a unified front but it's Big 12 propoganda? 🙄. If they were unified and committed to stay together (whatever the size of the payout), SMU and SDSU would at the very least have definitive Yes or No on expansion.

I've got plenty of criticism for PAC, they seem deeply disfunctional which shouldn't be a surprise for a California-based institution, I guess. They have totally bungled the PR aspect of this process, totally given away the narrative, etc.

None of that has anything to do with whether it would make sense for Colorado, ASU, or any other PAC team to jump to the Big12. It doesn't. It's like starting a rumor Duke is going to switch to the Big12 because they are focusing on basketball. Makes no sense once you start thinking about the details.

NorthTexasWeLove · July 14, 2023

13 minutes ago, DentonStang said:

I've got plenty of criticism for PAC, they seem deeply disfunctional which shouldn't be a surprise for a California-based institution, I guess. They have totally bungled the PR aspect of this process, totally given away the narrative, etc.

None of that has anything to do with whether it would make sense for Colorado, ASU, or any other PAC team to jump to the Big12. It doesn't. It's like starting a rumor Duke is going to switch to the Big12 because they are focusing on basketball. Makes no sense once you start thinking about the details.

It's pretty wideapread that the big12 wants the 4 corner schools. It's also widespread that Oregon and Wash will inevitably end up in the Big10. The PAC will have to pluck and that will be from the MW. To be honest, I'm not sure MW members will be up for that. If anything, I could see a scenario where the MW (maybe others) is doing the plucking of the PAC leftovers.

What kind of power in the world of athletics does Oregon State, Wash State, Cal, Stanford wield? Answer is not much. If the 6 schools that are probably leaving, actually leave, the PAC will disband. MW will absorb those leftovers.

Edited July 14, 2023 by NorthTexasWeLove

Cougar King · July 14, 2023

16 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It's pretty wideapread that the big12 wants the 4 corner schools. It's also widespread that Oregon and Wash will inevitably end up in the Big10. The PAC will have to pluck and that will be from the MW. To be honest, I'm not sure MW members will be up for that. If anything, I could see a scenario where the MW (maybe others) is doing the plucking of the PAC leftovers.

What kind of power in the world of athletics does Oregon State, Wash State, Cal, Stanford wield? Answer is not much. If the 6 schools that are probably leaving, actually leave, the PAC will disband. MW will absorb those leftovers.

Stanford is an academic, political and financial juggernaut. They've already been linked as a Big 10 candidate and is rumored to be one of Notre Dame's conditions on joining.

DentonStang · July 14, 2023

32 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It's pretty wideapread that the big12 wants the 4 corner schools. It's also widespread that Oregon and Wash will inevitably end up in the Big10. The PAC will have to pluck and that will be from the MW. To be honest, I'm not sure MW members will be up for that. If anything, I could see a scenario where the MW (maybe others) is doing the plucking of the PAC leftovers.

What kind of power in the world of athletics does Oregon State, Wash State, Cal, Stanford wield? Answer is not much. If the 6 schools that are probably leaving, actually leave, the PAC will disband. MW will absorb those leftovers.

Sure, if Oregon & Washington or anyone else gets raided by B10, situation changes. But that's not happening, at least not soon. If the B10 wanted those schools they could have them tomorrow. Now's the time with ending PAC contract. B10 either doesn't want them at all, or they are waiting on raiding ACC first. Who knows. But waiting a year and having Oregon try to fight out of a new PAC GOR is nonsense.

In the likely scenario where PAC is not raided (ever or soon) it makes zero sense for a variety of reasons for any other PAC team to go to the B12. It doesn't make financial sense, academic sense, prestige sense, cultural sense, etc.

MrAlien · July 14, 2023

If there is money to be made, then they will make a deal

NorthTexasWeLove · July 14, 2023

3 minutes ago, DentonStang said:

Sure, if Oregon & Washington or anyone else gets raided by B10, situation changes. But that's not happening, at least not soon. If the B10 wanted those schools they could have them tomorrow. Now's the time with ending PAC contract. B10 either doesn't want them at all, or they are waiting on raiding ACC first. Who knows. But waiting a year and having Oregon try to fight out of a new PAC GOR is nonsense.

In the likely scenario where PAC is not raided (ever or soon) it makes zero sense for a variety of reasons for any other PAC team to go to the B12. It doesn't make financial sense, academic sense, prestige sense, cultural sense, etc.

Academics aren't a thing anymore. Prestige is an ivy/academic thing, too.

It's about the money. The brand. It boils down to TV dollars. The PAC has clearly lost leverage. Pretty much all of it. It makes great sense for the Big12 to want the 4 corners. And greater sense for the 4 corners to want the Big12. It's happening. When, you rightfully should worry, no idea. It's happening. The ACC is untouchable due to their sneaky grant of rights with their members not ending until mid 2030's.

6 univeristies that are currently in the PAC will not be there in less than 5 seasons. These are presumed facts. If the MW absorbs the rest they are the de facto best G5 or P6, if you will.

Just prepping you and your wonderful financial placebo university.

NorthTexasWeLove · July 14, 2023

29 minutes ago, Cougar King said:

Stanford is an academic, political and financial juggernaut. They've already been linked as a Big 10 candidate and is rumored to be one of Notre Dame's conditions on joining.

ND isn't budging so as long as networks keep financing them to be on TV, which networks are. Stanford has been left out. No one cares about academics anymore except for the people who care about academics. It's not even about geography anymore. It's about brand/eyeballs/money. Stanford ain't it.

DentonStang · July 14, 2023

13 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Academics aren't a thing anymore. Prestige is an ivy/academic thing, too.

It's about the money. The brand. It boils down to TV dollars. The PAC has clearly lost leverage. Pretty much all of it. It makes great sense for the Big12 to want the 4 corners. And greater sense for the 4 corners to want the Big12. It's happening. When, you rightfully should worry, no idea. It's happening. The ACC is untouchable due to their sneaky grant of rights with their members not ending until mid 2030's.

6 univeristies that are currently in the PAC will not be there in less than 5 seasons. These are presumed facts. If the MW absorbs the rest they are the de facto best G5 or P6, if you will.

Just prepping you and your wonderful financial placebo university.

Again, sure, if the PAC money is vastly less than B12. But nobody legitimate thinks this will be the case. Maybe less than B12, but not substantially.

By legitimate I mean industry people, retired network executives, media that write serious articles on sports media (not people relying on Twitter traffic or who write for single conferences like Swaim or Canzano).

NT80 · July 14, 2023

1 hour ago, DentonStang said:

Sure, if Oregon & Washington or anyone else gets raided by B10, situation changes. But that's not happening, at least not soon. If the B10 wanted those schools they could have them tomorrow. Now's the time with ending PAC contract. B10 either doesn't want them at all, or they are waiting on raiding ACC first. Who knows. But waiting a year and having Oregon try to fight out of a new PAC GOR is nonsense.

In the likely scenario where PAC is not raided (ever or soon) it makes zero sense for a variety of reasons for any other PAC team to go to the B12. It doesn't make financial sense, academic sense, prestige sense, cultural sense, etc.

New Big10 commish said they will not be responsible for killing the PAC. Meaning they will wait until someone else starts the raiding (Big12) before they come after what they want = Wash, Oregon, Stanford, ?

NT80 · July 14, 2023

2 hours ago, DentonStang said:

I've got plenty of criticism for PAC, they seem deeply disfunctional which shouldn't be a surprise for a California-based institution, I guess. They have totally bungled the PR aspect of this process, totally given away the narrative, etc.

None of that has anything to do with whether it would make sense for Colorado, ASU, or any other PAC team to jump to the Big12. It doesn't. It's like starting a rumor Duke is going to switch to the Big12 because they are focusing on basketball. Makes no sense once you start thinking about the details.

$ and stability.

Big12 is looking at UConn (with perhaps St. Johns, and Syracuse for the NYC market).

NT80 · July 14, 2023

2 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It's pretty wideapread that the big12 wants the 4 corner schools. It's also widespread that Oregon and Wash will inevitably end up in the Big10. The PAC will have to pluck and that will be from the MW. To be honest, I'm not sure MW members will be up for that. If anything, I could see a scenario where the MW (maybe others) is doing the plucking of the PAC leftovers.

What kind of power in the world of athletics does Oregon State, Wash State, Cal, Stanford wield? Answer is not much. If the 6 schools that are probably leaving, actually leave, the PAC will disband. MW will absorb those leftovers.

PAC name would still have more media/marketing value than MWC. MWC schools would love to be elevated instantly to P5 status (just like SMU) all because of an invite. That's what is stupid about the whole P5-G5 designation, no criteria to meet at all.

DentonLurker · July 14, 2023

I think what all of this is proving is that a school sitting in a particular TV market doesn’t necessarily deliver that market. SDSU/SMU/St John’s/Syracuse sit in big markets, but do they put more eyeballs on screens?

Dpony14 · July 14, 2023

17 minutes ago, NT80 said:

PAC name would still have more media/marketing value than MWC. MWC schools would love to be elevated instantly to P5 status (just like SMU) all because of an invite. That's what is stupid about the whole P5-G5 designation, no criteria to meet at all.

Dont forget about bowl game tie ins, forfeited CFP/NCAA money, any existing media contract in place. Its still a reputational and financial boon to move to PAC from MWC/AAC.

El Paso Eagle · July 14, 2023

48 minutes ago, NT80 said:

$ and stability.

Big12 is looking at UConn (with perhaps St. Johns, and Syracuse for the NYC market).

Still curious if UConn would be BB only. Their football is low-level G5, and if I remember correctly, the Big 12 will take a big hit if they added any non-G5 football schools.

GrayEagle · July 14, 2023

30 minutes ago, Dpony14 said:

Dont forget about bowl game tie ins, forfeited CFP/NCAA money, any existing media contract in place. Its still a reputational and financial boon to move to PAC from MWC/AAC.

Not when the B1G seems intent on grabbing Oregon, Washington, and anyone that can add value to their conference. It looks possible that the conference will be so big that some of the teams wouldn't play each other but about once every ten years unless they played only conference members. Greed personified.

Edited July 14, 2023 by GrayEagle

NorthTexasWeLove · July 14, 2023

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

PAC name would still have more media/marketing value than MWC. MWC schools would love to be elevated instantly to P5 status (just like SMU) all because of an invite. That's what is stupid about the whole P5-G5 designation, no criteria to meet at all.

The leftovers of the PAC will not dictate that status.

Plus, the media is already planting the seed of further breakaway, the "big2". None of this ultimately matters. It will be 2. When ACC schools are able, a select few will join those 2 forces. Some currently in the "big2" aren't safe either, imo.

There are substantial moves to be had. All roads lead to 2 major conferences. The PAC is just entertaining to see how the dominos fall that will inevitably lead to their demise.

I think if the big12 can keep momentum, they might be able to separate themselves as the +1 to the big2, but there will still be a very wide gap in exposure, money, resources, etc.