Colorado holds 'substantive' talks with Big 12 as Buffaloes consider leaving Pac-12

[El Paso Eagle]

10 hours ago, dodgefan said:

I just saw this on 247/Sports. I wish we played SMU earlier in the season, before these players have time to jell. They will get a couple of losses early, because of road trips to a Oklahoma team that loaded up in the portal and pretty much the same for TCU.

"SMU football hit the transfer portal hard this offseason, bringing in quantity and quality proven by placing three new players on the Top247 transfer portal players this cycle.

The Mustangs added 26 players through the portal, 17 before the spring and another nine between spring and summer. That was good enough to give SMU the No. 12 transfer class in the country, topping the American Athletic Conference and all Group of 5 teams. In fact, SMU would be No. 1 in the Big 10, No. 2 in the Big 12, No. 4 in the Pac-12 and the ACC and No. 5 in the SEC.

Eight of SMU's transfers were four-star recruits coming out of high school and all 25 scholarship transfers are at least three-star transfers."

Not a shot only at SMU, but this confirms that for more and more players, it's not the name on the jersey; it's what they can pay. This has absolutely nothing about SMU being where they want to go or having coaches they want to play for.

Edited June 7, 2023 by El Paso Eagle

[Wag Tag]

Of all the colleges out there I feel the NIL money situation will benefit SMU more so than any other school. It sure worked for them in the past until they got caught. They will start winning and Lash better start now or he will be gone. They are going to have P5 talent and size. SMU needs to move to the PAC.

[TIgreen01]

14 hours ago, TheReal_jayD said:

I have my own opinions. As much as that is hard for some on the board to believe. The staff nor any one from the athletic department as mentioned a word to me about SMU. I am speaking on this as just someone that follows recruiting. 

Apologies for the attack....was in a mood yesterday after the Saudi takeover of pro golf. 

In general, I would trade places with Vandy, Wake Forest, Baylor, etc, in a second for a chance to be in one of these power conferences even if it means getting our rears handed to us regularly.  In the past, when we were in completely terrible conferences that had ZERO teams even remotely close to competing for top 25 status, it made sense to want to try to do what Boise and TCU did---dominate weaker teams and try to play the easiest schedule possible.  However, if given the opportunity to have legitimately competitive teams to play against, I take that 10 times out of 10.  There is no substitute for playing against top competition in terms of bringing in interest and raising money.  We may not be able to compete today, but we will eventually.

[Green Otaku]

37 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Of all the colleges out there I feel the NIL money situation will benefit SMU more so than any other school. It sure worked for them in the past until they got caught. They will start winning and Lash better start now or he will be gone. They are going to have P5 talent and size. SMU needs to move to the PAC.

I'd rather most of the AAC teams have P5 size and talent so we can be in a conference that is respected and mentioned as being as strong as some of the P5s. 

[Jonnyeagle]

On 6/5/2023 at 1:52 PM, GMG_Dallas said:

I think yes. You can elevate yourself all you want but your status will still be defined by the company you keep. Ideally, SMU becomes a juggernaut but because football is still played with a ball on a field and not with bank account balances, we can still compete as long as we keep making the right hires.

For me, I don't want to keep being in CUSA 2.0 and AAC 2.0. A watered down G5 conference is a bad place to be. You can be dominant but at the end of the day, you're just the top sh!t on turd mountain.

I agree and I really think our fans are underestimating how good this conference really is.  It is basically a P5 conference.  They had one of the damn 4 playoff teams for goodness sake.

[Wag Tag]

20 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

I'd rather most of the AAC teams have P5 size and talent so we can be in a conference that is respected and mentioned as being as strong as some of the P5s. 

You need to look at SMU transfers and compare them to ours. In my opinion there is no comparison.  How important is this point? Just look at Tulane last year. The NIL is just beginning.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Wag Tag

[Green Otaku]

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

You need to look at SMU transfers and compare them to ours. In my opinion there is no comparison.  How important is this point? Just look at Tulane last year. The NIL is just beginning.

We are just starting out AAC journey, those teams have had years to grow so it makes sense they are ahead of us. Being in a tough conference with top 25 teams will raise our profile as well, and is certainly better than dominating a weak conference. We need to substantially raise our athletic budgets to compete in our new home, something like $60-70m range will put us as a premier program in the AAC and perhaps even in the upper 1/3 nationally. Having other strong programs is a positive as it legitimizes the conference. We can get to where these teams are, they have put the time and investment in, it's up to us to do the same. 

[GMG_Dallas]

4 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

You need to look at SMU transfers and compare them to ours. In my opinion there is no comparison.  How important is this point? Just look at Tulane last year. The NIL is just beginning.

G5 programs have been experiencing rapid and unexpected success well before the NIL era. It rarely lasts. Until Tulane can replicate last year for 4+ seasons (past a recruiting classes life spa), last year is nothing but an outlier. Obviously too early to tell for Tulane but I'm not going to look at a single season and say it's all because of NIL. The same goes for SMU.

[Wag Tag]

5 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

G5 programs have been experiencing rapid and unexpected success well before the NIL era. It rarely lasts. Until Tulane can replicate last year for 4+ seasons (past a recruiting classes life spa), last year is nothing but an outlier. Obviously too early to tell for Tulane but I'm not going to look at a single season and say it's all because of NIL. The same goes for SMU.

Their success came from transfers. NIL is going to get you the transfers. 

[Wag Tag]

2 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

We are just starting out AAC journey, those teams have had years to grow so it makes sense they are ahead of us. Being in a tough conference with top 25 teams will raise our profile as well, and is certainly better than dominating a weak conference. We need to substantially raise our athletic budgets to compete in our new home, something like $60-70m range will put us as a premier program in the AAC and perhaps even in the upper 1/3 nationally. Having other strong programs is a positive as it legitimizes the conference. We can get to where these teams are, they have put the time and investment in, it's up to us to do the same. 

For a G5 do you donate to new facilities or the NIL? As a donor where can you get the most bang for your buck? Except for the weight room and rehab area I think the facilities are fine. 

[mustangfan]

3 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

For a G5 do you donate to new facilities or the NIL? As a donor where can you get the most bang for your buck? Except for the weight room and rehab area I think the facilities are fine. 

I will say that your facilities were the primary reason we allowed you into the AAC.   You had to build them on the backs of poor students but they are impressive nonetheless.

[El Paso Eagle]

3 minutes ago, mustangfan said:

I will say that your facilities were the primary reason we allowed you into the AAC.   You had to build them on the backs of poor students but they are impressive nonetheless.

That is an interesting comment from a fan of a school that threw money at facilities and could not win and now wants to boast and act like they are building something special since they can buy players. SMU is not building a program, they are buying one. You guys are like the rich kids who buy something and then act like you built it up.

[Green Otaku]

26 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

For a G5 do you donate to new facilities or the NIL? As a donor where can you get the most bang for your buck? Except for the weight room and rehab area I think the facilities are fine. 

For facilities IMO you measure yourself against your peers, and should strive to be at the top of the conference. There's no better standard than being the standard. Outside of those two things coaching salaries are also up there with being extremely important, and that's for both head coaches as well as asst. coaches/staff. That's how you ensure you can continue success if you lose a good coach, and how you can make a quick change when a coach doesn't work out. 

[NT80]

33 minutes ago, mustangfan said:

I will say that your facilities were the primary reason we allowed you into the AAC.   You had to build them on the backs of poor students but they are impressive nonetheless.

NT terminated a golf course lease across I-35 from the main campus and gave ~200 acres to Athletics to build on.  Not many Universities get that opportunity.  No poor students involved in that.  Funding for Apogee was approved by a student vote.   

The NT Athletic program has been evolving and climbing up conferences for several decades.   We didn't have 80 years of SWC membership like Smu for a foundation...but we finally caught up with you anyway!

[dodgefan]

Most of you guys need to educate yourself on the NIL. SMU is just trying to play the game, they are far from the only one running a transfer program like this. Baylor outbid SMU for two players in this past cycle. A player in demand, is not going to sign with a school, just because of the NIL offer, many times if it is a tie with a couple of schools, it can be a tie breaker. Either we get in and play, or we can continue to be bitter about what others are stepping up to the plate with.

[dodgefan]

https://www.on3.com/nil/news/inside-the-first-state-specific-nil-marketplace-lone-star-nil-texas/

[UNTLifer]

21 hours ago, mustangfan said:

I will say that your facilities were the primary reason we allowed you into the AAC.   You had to build them on the backs of poor students but they are impressive nonetheless.

At least we ended up with a full size IPF and not an arena league model. 

[UNTLifer]

20 hours ago, dodgefan said:

Most of you guys need to educate yourself on the NIL. SMU is just trying to play the game, they are far from the only one running a transfer program like this. Baylor outbid SMU for two players in this past cycle. A player in demand, is not going to sign with a school, just because of the NIL offer, many times if it is a tie with a couple of schools, it can be a tie breaker. Either we get in and play, or we can continue to be bitter about what others are stepping up to the plate with.

I would take you more seriously when you are critical of people but then I read your screen name and it all goes away. 

[greenminer]

23 hours ago, mustangfan said:

I will say that your facilities were the primary reason we allowed you into the AAC. 

You didn't allow shit.  You have been against sharing conference with UNT 100% of the time.

Thankfully, it wasn't up to SMU alone.

[GMG_Dallas]

On 6/7/2023 at 4:12 PM, Wag Tag said:

Their success came from transfers. NIL is going to get you the transfers. 

If everybody is getting transfers, the difference maker remains proper talent evaluation of those transfers and coaching. The game is still played on a field.

[Wag Tag]

54 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

If everybody is getting transfers, the difference maker remains proper talent evaluation of those transfers and coaching. The game is still played on a field.

It is another level of the star system and ranking players. What you pay will determine a 4 star player from U of Miami or an unranked player from ACU. This will be the big advantage to SMU. We need to realize that the NIL is just in the beginning stages.

[NT80]

1 hour ago, GMG_Dallas said:

If everybody is getting transfers, the difference maker remains proper talent evaluation of those transfers and coaching. The game is still played on a field.

I believe the vast majority of Portal transfers are doing it for more playing time or better situation than an NIL deal, like Grant Gunnell.   I think most don't get any $$ transferring.   Anyone have stats on Portal NIL vs non-NIL?

[Arkstfan]

Some parts of this Big XII / Pac-12 thing have been repugnantly public.

We know that P12 has not brought a contract or at least a contract the presidents will approve to them within the publicly predicted time frame and now months behind.

We know that the Big XII presidents rejected the option to add two hoops monsters. Gonzaga and defending national champions UConn and the scuttlebutt being that B12 presidents right now believe raiding a P5 is within grasp and the pool they want to fish in.

As an MLS fan, the league has picked up a fat raise from Apple. Production values are very good with every game offered in English and Spanish and viewers also having option to substitute local radio for Apple's sound and with the Canadian teams the added option of French audio.

For all the nifty keen bells and whistles of the Apple broadcasts, on many levels it's been a freaking disaster. No more telecasts on regional sports nets or local TV. No more ESPN, ABC, Fox, FS1, or before that NBC or NBCSN national telecasts.

Reports are viewership numbers have collapsed. There are claims subscriber numbers are roughly what they were when MLS had it's out-of-market streaming and well below what they were on ESPN+ which cost less per year than the old MLS streaming did until they bumped the price to $10 per month. The Apple package costs basically what the old out of market package cost.

The belief is that P12 can match B12 in per team revenue, but only if it is all or primarily a streaming led package. Revenue will be there but the audience will be smaller. Apple or Amazon aren't going to bring exposure. ESPN supposedly isn't interested because they've got so much tied up in other conferences and are looking at needing a fat war chest to go after the expanded CFP deal and already speculation is CFP+ will be a two network contract because no one network is likely to be in position to pay what 11 playoff games per year can command.

So maybe Paramount+ or Peacock pop in and offer some linear TV with CBS or NBC but Peacock/NBC have a big investment in B1G and Notre Dame.

SO COLORADO

Once a successful program, they'd win a conference title about once a decade and go to a bowl about every other year while in Big8/12 since joining Pac-12 in 2011 they've made two bowl appearances.

They've gone for flash and splash with Deion. Being in a TV package with less potential reach than Deion had at Jackson State doesn't fit flash and splash. Who cares about the money if your rebuild plan is based on getting a lot of attention and your plan is gutted by reducing exposure?

Unless Pac-12 can deliver a notable linear broadcast package, Colorado's whole revival plan falls apart.

I am sure there is great conflict in Boulder right now. Culturally Pac-12 is a better fit, the Pac-12 fits their vision of who they are academically. Athletically they have struggled being so much further from the recruiting base of their conference and the flatiron mountains likely don't impress four star recruits from California as much as they do kids from Texas. Recreational cannabis is a yawn for Cali kids. Tibetan food (not a fan) probably more unusual in Texas vs California. Dallas is closer to Boulder than any of the large California cities.

If athletics wins out in the debate, they are Big XII bound. Denver is 16th largest TV market and Colorado makes a nice bridge to BYU.

If Colorado follows the exposure to Big XII what next?

Colorado is a big win in Big XII minds. Shows they can raid "peers" and adds another AAU for academic prestige. A second western school makes it easier to join the battle for late night games.

Rumor mill has said for some time Big XII wants the four corners schools. Utah brings the Holy War into the fold a great travel setup, and another AAU.

Arizona has purportedly expressed some interest. Arizona State is the sphinx who knows. Both have been dependent on Southern California for students and athletes. AAU status and large Arizona market makes them attractive to B12. Is the feeling mutual?

[NT80]

4 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

Some parts of this Big XII / Pac-12 thing have been repugnantly public.

We know that P12 has not brought a contract or at least a contract the presidents will approve to them within the publicly predicted time frame and now months behind.

We know that the Big XII presidents rejected the option to add two hoops monsters. Gonzaga and defending national champions UConn and the scuttlebutt being that B12 presidents right now believe raiding a P5 is within grasp and the pool they want to fish in.

As an MLS fan, the league has picked up a fat raise from Apple. Production values are very good with every game offered in English and Spanish and viewers also having option to substitute local radio for Apple's sound and with the Canadian teams the added option of French audio.

For all the nifty keen bells and whistles of the Apple broadcasts, on many levels it's been a freaking disaster. No more telecasts on regional sports nets or local TV. No more ESPN, ABC, Fox, FS1, or before that NBC or NBCSN national telecasts.

Reports are viewership numbers have collapsed. There are claims subscriber numbers are roughly what they were when MLS had it's out-of-market streaming and well below what they were on ESPN+ which cost less per year than the old MLS streaming did until they bumped the price to $10 per month. The Apple package costs basically what the old out of market package cost.

The belief is that P12 can match B12 in per team revenue, but only if it is all or primarily a streaming led package. Revenue will be there but the audience will be smaller. Apple or Amazon aren't going to bring exposure. ESPN supposedly isn't interested because they've got so much tied up in other conferences and are looking at needing a fat war chest to go after the expanded CFP deal and already speculation is CFP+ will be a two network contract because no one network is likely to be in position to pay what 11 playoff games per year can command.

So maybe Paramount+ or Peacock pop in and offer some linear TV with CBS or NBC but Peacock/NBC have a big investment in B1G and Notre Dame.

SO COLORADO

Once a successful program, they'd win a conference title about once a decade and go to a bowl about every other year while in Big8/12 since joining Pac-12 in 2011 they've made two bowl appearances.

They've gone for flash and splash with Deion. Being in a TV package with less potential reach than Deion had at Jackson State doesn't fit flash and splash. Who cares about the money if your rebuild plan is based on getting a lot of attention and your plan is gutted by reducing exposure?

Unless Pac-12 can deliver a notable linear broadcast package, Colorado's whole revival plan falls apart.

I am sure there is great conflict in Boulder right now. Culturally Pac-12 is a better fit, the Pac-12 fits their vision of who they are academically. Athletically they have struggled being so much further from the recruiting base of their conference and the flatiron mountains likely don't impress four star recruits from California as much as they do kids from Texas. Recreational cannabis is a yawn for Cali kids. Tibetan food (not a fan) probably more unusual in Texas vs California. Dallas is closer to Boulder than any of the large California cities.

If athletics wins out in the debate, they are Big XII bound. Denver is 16th largest TV market and Colorado makes a nice bridge to BYU.

If Colorado follows the exposure to Big XII what next?

Colorado is a big win in Big XII minds. Shows they can raid "peers" and adds another AAU for academic prestige. A second western school makes it easier to join the battle for late night games.

Rumor mill has said for some time Big XII wants the four corners schools. Utah brings the Holy War into the fold a great travel setup, and another AAU.

Arizona has purportedly expressed some interest. Arizona State is the sphinx who knows. Both have been dependent on Southern California for students and athletes. AAU status and large Arizona market makes them attractive to B12. Is the feeling mutual?

This whole wait for the new Pac12 media rights deal is to first see how it compare$ with the Big12 deal.   Even if the $ are similar but the format causes viewership problems and access to games to fall it will cause angst with fans and their schools.  The Big12 will make enticing offers and a few schools will flinch, causing others to consider also.