Another good argument for UNT baseball

[ColoradoEagle]

There's really no argument for adding another mouth to feed, a dying sport at that, just because of our location. Any extra money right now needs to go to already existing sports, preferably football and basketball. 

[NT80]

1 hour ago, ColoradoEagle said:

There's really no argument for adding another mouth to feed, a dying sport at that, just because of our location. Any extra money right now needs to go to already existing sports, preferably football and basketball. 

Perhaps drop some non-revenue, non-fan sports....  like cross-country!

[DentonLurker]

18 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Perhaps drop some non-revenue, non-fan sports....  like cross-country!

Curious what other sports you’d drop? My guess is the entire cross country budget might cover 1 set of baseball uniforms.

[UNTLifer]

I don't want to add baseball at the expense of any current programs.  We should not have to drop a sport or decrease support for a program just to accommodate baseball.  Do it right or don't do it at all.

[DentonLurker]

48 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Cut both men's cross country and track.

From the best I can tell, this gets you around $650k.

48 minutes ago, NT80 said:

What's the budget for softball? 

Looks like it is around $1.2M

 

As of 2019, the average baseball budget in the AAC was around $1.6M. What else are you cutting?

 

 

 

 

[NT80]

3 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

From the best I can tell, this gets you around $650k.

Looks like it is around $1.2M

 

As of 2019, the average baseball budget in the AAC was around $1.6M. What else are you cutting?

Parades for NIT Championships.... oh, wait....

[NT80]

3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I don't want to add baseball at the expense of any current programs.  We should not have to drop a sport or decrease support for a program just to accommodate baseball.  Do it right or don't do it at all.

Sure, let's keep throwing money at sports that bring in no revenue and no fans watch like cross country, track and golf.

[UNTLifer]

2 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Sure, let's keep throwing money at sports that bring in no revenue and no fans watch like cross country, track and golf.

Sure, let's start dumping all the sports and see how attractive we are to conferences then.  Sorry, but this is about the worst take I have ever read on here.

[Green Otaku]

4 hours ago, NT80 said:

Baseball is like 12.5 max scholarships.   What's the budget for softball? 

Cut both men's cross country and track.  It would free up Title IX concerns.  But with UNT being majority female I don't think it's actually an issue.  Not a problem for La tech, UAB, etc to offer more than us plus baseball.

Just cut football, problem solved.

 

[NT80]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Sure, let's start dumping all the sports and see how attractive we are to conferences then.  Sorry, but this is about the worst take I have ever read on here.

Ha; then you should be reading more, typing less.  

Lets compare apples to apples (sort of).

CUSA schools moving to the AAC, sports offerings:

UNT:  5 mens, 11 womens, no baseball. (enrollment is 54% women)

UAB:  7 mens, 11 womens, with baseball.

Charlotte:  8 mens, 9 womens, with baseball.

FAU:  8 mens, 11 womens, with baseball.

UTSA:  7 mens, 8 womens, with baseball.

Rice:  7 mens, 7 womens, with baseball.

 

[Monkeypox]

2 hours ago, NT80 said:

Sure, let's keep throwing money at sports that bring in no revenue and no fans watch like cross country, track and golf.

.. and baseball.

[Christopher Walker]

On 4/15/2023 at 7:16 PM, NT80 said:

In a way, YES.  DFW is a hotbed for high school baseball players, as well as other sports....

We just WON the Division I Men's Championships in Polo!!   Beat Texas A&M and Virginia....

NATIONAL TOURNAMENT

Tuesday, April 11, 2023 - Saturday, April 15, 2023

DIVISION I MEN'S NATIONAL INTERCOLLEGIATE CHAMPIONSHIP

Virginia Polo Inc. | Charlottesville, VA

Livestreaming on 

TOURNAMENT PAGECLUB PROFILEVIEW GAMES 

APRIL 11

Final

Division I Men's National Intercollegiate Championship

Virginia Polo Inc.

SMU (0-1)

9

Texas A&M (1-1)

17

APRIL 13

Final

Division I Men's National Intercollegiate Championship

Virginia Polo Inc.

Cornell University (Cornell) (0-1)

7

UVA (1-1)

18

Semifinal

APRIL 13

Final

Division I Men's National Intercollegiate Championship

Virginia Polo Inc.

UNT (2-0)

20

Texas A&M (1-1)

8

Semifinal

APRIL 15

Final

Division I Men's National Intercollegiate Championship

Virginia Polo Inc.

UVA (1-1)

9

UNT (2-0)

14

Final

I’m genuinely shook by this. Beating Virginia at the sport I would most likely associate with them is nuts. They’re the horse-iest country club types of them all.

[El Paso Eagle]

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

Ha; then you should be reading more, typing less.  

Lets compare apples to apples (sort of).

CUSA schools moving to the AAC, sports offerings:

UNT:  5 mens, 11 womens, no baseball. (enrollment is 54% women)

UAB:  7 mens, 11 womens, with baseball.

Charlotte:  8 mens, 9 womens, with baseball.

FAU:  8 mens, 11 womens, with baseball.

UTSA:  7 mens, 8 womens, with baseball.

Rice:  7 mens, 7 womens, with baseball.

 

Would really like to see how they are "adjusting" their books to be T9 compliant 

[Mike Jackson]

11 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Tell me when DBU plays?  Show me their schedule?  They don't market, at least not to the DFW market and neither does UTA or TCU.

This is what bothers me the most about our department, we market poorly.

You aren’t going to market a non-revenue sport enough to make up for a mismanaged FBS program.  You aren’t going to market a FBS team that has never won a New Year’s Six bowl or finished the season in the top 25 in their parent’s lifetimes.  The basketball program getting their head coach hired away after a great season is the first time I heard of it happening at major UNT sports program this century.  
 

Sure we could start up a baseball.  But starting men’s and women’s gymnastics programs is more ambitious.  And those programs would conceivably would be able to share new multipurpose facilities that volleyball, basketball need.  Only 15 schools sponsor men’s gymnastics and only 62 sponsor women’s gymnastics.  More schools sponsor D1 Baseball than FBS Football.  Just the sheer number of competitors in Baseball makes the road more difficult to win something significant in NCAA competition.  
 

All that said, fix football, continue the momentum (and market it aggressively) in men’s basketball and fix women’s basketball.  Then worry about new programs. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Mike Jackson

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

Ha; then you should be reading more, typing less.  

Lets compare apples to apples (sort of).

CUSA schools moving to the AAC, sports offerings:

UNT:  5 mens, 11 womens, no baseball. (enrollment is 54% women)

UAB:  7 mens, 11 womens, with baseball.

Charlotte:  8 mens, 9 womens, with baseball.

FAU:  8 mens, 11 womens, with baseball.

UTSA:  7 mens, 8 womens, with baseball.

Rice:  7 mens, 7 womens, with baseball.

 

Thank you for making my point. We already sponsor less than the rest and you are advocating dumping or severely reducing funding to those that we do sponsor to add baseball. Why can these other schools make it work?

[NT80]

5 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Thank you for making my point. We already sponsor less than the rest and you are advocating dumping or severely reducing funding to those that we do sponsor to add baseball. Why can these other schools make it work?

That is a Great question!   And really, that's all I am asking... How can schools like UTSA, that seem so financially- handcuffed and facility-less, still afford a baseball program but UNT cannot?  

[DentonLurker]

11 hours ago, NT80 said:

How can schools like UTSA, that seem so financially- handcuffed and facility-less, still afford a baseball program but UNT cannot?

I don’t really see how that matters. There are so many variables that play into a department’s budget. Are the other sports funded in the same ways as ours? What about coaches salaries? Do they pay the same? Do the other schools have a stadium debt payment in their budget?

At the end of the day, it comes down to- how would we pay for baseball? We need millions upfront for a stadium and an additional $1.5-2M a year in operational funds to get Baseball moving at the average AAC rate. How does UNT find those dollars? And are those dollars we want to commit to Baseball instead of doing other projects on our list?

You have to either cut costs or find new money. Those are your choices.

[jtm0097]

In the current economic environment, I really doubt anyone is going to fork over millions for baseball. I mean we can barely fundraise for our current programs much less spend millions for something new. 

Maybe the baseball guys can drive down to Houston and ask Mattress Mac for some cash. However, he seems to be a UT or cougar high alum these days.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

On 4/17/2023 at 11:27 AM, DentonLurker said:

From the best I can tell, this gets you around $650k.

Looks like it is around $1.2M

 

As of 2019, the average baseball budget in the AAC was around $1.6M. What else are you cutting?

 

 

 

 

Cross country budget is 650k...

Uhh....

 

[DentonLurker]

3 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Cross country

Men’s Track and Cross Country

[NorthTexasWeLove]

On 4/17/2023 at 5:10 PM, NT80 said:

Ha; then you should be reading more, typing less.  

Lets compare apples to apples (sort of).

CUSA schools moving to the AAC, sports offerings:

UNT:  5 mens, 11 womens, no baseball. (enrollment is 54% women)

UAB:  7 mens, 11 womens, with baseball.

Charlotte:  8 mens, 9 womens, with baseball.

FAU:  8 mens, 11 womens, with baseball.

UTSA:  7 mens, 8 womens, with baseball.

Rice:  7 mens, 7 womens, with baseball.

 

I just don't know how those universities swimming in equal or less funnding than us have been able to get it done. It's amazing. 

 

[Jonnyeagle]

On 4/17/2023 at 9:15 PM, NT80 said:

That is a Great question!   And really, that's all I am asking... How can schools like UTSA, that seem so financially- handcuffed and facility-less, still afford a baseball program but UNT cannot?  

I’ve always heard that we pay higher salaries and it would require cutting AD staff to make baseball happen.

[tmjerm]

I’m all for baseball after the AC is done.  I think we have the means to work through basketball practice facilities etc.  I love the Pit and would love to see if survive somehow.  I’d also love to see a more intimate arena.  Bottom line is we have to do our part collectively as donors to see these things happen.  What I like about baseball, apart from just being a fan. is it continues fan engagement which perpetuates moments for more fundraising.  That said, I am all for a new arena at the same time and our basketball program deserves investment.  We just need more dollars, attendance and investment.  We way overdo the title ix compliance but I agree that some men’s Olympic sports are worth cutting for baseball.  Golf must stay, we have a great history there and our guys can play.

 

[greenminer]

14 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

You have to either cut costs or find new money. Those are your choices.

 

when we really started committing to athletics (10years ago?), i was amazed at how we found money for something new when there was enough demand.

student fees. Big donation. Whatever it took, we found it

[Mike Jackson]

46 minutes ago, tmjerm said:

We just need more dollars, attendance and investment.

Baseball doesn’t help either of those things.  With minor league Frisco and Rangers within daily commute driving distance the average UNT Alumni that is also baseball fan isn’t bypassing those games to come to a UNT Baseball game.  Ideally I would like UNT sponsor all the sports Oklahoma, Michigan and/or  UT Austin sponsor.   But I don’t believe that is realistic.  It is going to take another generation of UNT graduates to distance the university from an apathetic to almost an antagonistic relationship with college sports to one of passionate consistent support.  And while our marketing lags it is very hard assignment to grow a market from a neglected stored seed.  That is why I am particularly hard on athletic department and head coaching of the football program.  We just can’t afford not to be. I don’t think we afford NOT to at least make an attempt to put a package together to hire Deion Sanders.  It just seems to me the bigger donors to the program are more concern with having a football head coach they can rub elbows with than winning and projecting the profile of the university forward.     That is the main reason a public university of this size with a very limited athletic achievement history continues to play D1 sports.  A side effect in the Olympic sports is hopefully attracting academic all-Americans that go on to become leaders outside of sports.  You can get an academic all-American in baseball but there are tons of other universities that can offer scholarships as well.  Sure they can get creative budget wise and start a baseball program but the payoff (non-monetary) for that effort would be minimal.  A UNT baseball team advancing to the Super Regionals and getting swept (a really high achievement) gets 30 seconds on local news.