Would you prefer we focus all of our resources towards basketball now?

[NorthTexasWeLove]

23 hours ago, MrAlien said:

All resources... NO

However I would be OK if some of those resources transferred from Football to Basketball.  With a little more effort from the school, UNT could be a tournament bound team every year.  I would rather see UNT Basketball in the Big Dance every year, then see UNT Football play in some meaningless bowl game.  

This right here is the wrong answer. 

[Hunter Green]

This is a silly question and poll.

[UNTLifer]

4 hours ago, GoMeanGreen1999 said:

So of all of the successful basketball programs that don't have football, UTA is the one you went with?  Just a question: would you drop football to have the success of Gonzaga in basketball?  Or maybe Providence?  Marquette?  

We have a MUCH better chance at winning a NC in basketball then we do in football.

I went with a similar sized school in Texas. The schools you list are in areas that don’t value football the way Texans and the people in the southern U.S. value it. 

[greenminer]

4 hours ago, GoMeanGreen1999 said:

Just a question: would you drop football to have the success of Gonzaga in basketball?  Or maybe Providence?  Marquette?  

The board has already unpacked why those programs are not good models for us.   If you want something more Apples-to-apples, it’s probably going to be UTA

[MeanMag]

I wonder if FAU is having this same conversation.

[Dannymacfan]

I would like us to put more in both myself.

[Mean Green 93-98]

5 hours ago, MeanMag said:

I wonder if FAU is having this same conversation.

They just hired Tom Herman.  I doubt it.

[meangreen10]

On 4/8/2023 at 3:41 AM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

This right here is the correct answer. 

100% correct. The Frisco bowl or whatever it’s equivalent is not going to move any needles. Granted, we live in a state where football is KING, so no, all the resources are impossible to move but more attention is needed on BB. The guys on here responding with a HARD no are still stuck on the idea that the football team is capable of being remarkably successful (i.e the CFP). It won’t happen and you’re better off letting that go. Sorry but let’s be realistic.

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, meangreen10 said:

100% correct. The Frisco bowl or whatever it’s equivalent is not going to move any needles. Granted, we live in a state where football is KING, so no, all the resources are impossible to move but more attention is needed on BB. The guys on here responding with a HARD no are still stuck on the idea that the football team is capable of being remarkably successful (i.e the CFP). It won’t happen and you’re better off letting that go. Sorry but let’s be realistic.

Not going to go digging back in time, but I bet you, along with most others, were singing a much different tune after the 2018 Football season (that ended with the Littrell extension after flirting with KSSt, and we were all VERY EXCITED about that, don't revise history... plus Mason Fine returning for his Senior season) VERSUS the 2018-19 Basketball season (that saw us lose 8 of our last 9 games, Smart graduating, and Woolridge transferring to Gonzaga).

[meangreen10]

28 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Not going to go digging back in time, but I bet you, along with most others, were singing a much different tune after the 2018 Football season (that ended with the Littrell extension after flirting with KSSt, and we were all VERY EXCITED about that, don't revise history... plus Mason Fine returning for his Senior season) VERSUS the 2018-19 Basketball season (that saw us lose 8 of our last 9 games, Smart graduating, and Woolridge transferring to Gonzaga).

If you’re insinuating that I, like most, were feeling great about the direction of the FB program, my answer hell yes. Those were great times. Now, as far as it gaining national attention with a NYE bowl or anything like that, no. College football has its blue bloods and powerhouses (Joel Klatt preaches this well) and it is rare if ever broken. You get exceptions like Cincy two years ago but, come on. Making a March madness run is just so much more realistic. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by meangreen10

[MeanGreenTexan]

18 minutes ago, meangreen10 said:

If you’re insinuating that I, like most, were feeling great about the direction of the FB program, my answer hell yes. Those were great times. Now, as far as it gaining national attention with a NYE bowl or anything like that, no. College football has its blue bloods and powerhouses (Joel Klatt preaches this well) and it is rare if ever broken. You get exceptions like Cincy two years ago but, come on. Making a March madness run is just so much more realistic. 

Cincy isn't the only outlier though.    UCF did it.  TCU did it in the MWC.   Heck, Northern Illinois did it.  We can too, and it would HUGE if/when we do. 

[Dannymacfan]

1 hour ago, meangreen10 said:

If you’re insinuating that I, like most, were feeling great about the direction of the FB program, my answer hell yes. Those were great times. Now, as far as it gaining national attention with a NYE bowl or anything like that, no. College football has its blue bloods and powerhouses (Joel Klatt preaches this well) and it is rare if ever broken. You get exceptions like Cincy two years ago but, come on. Making a March madness run is just so much more realistic. 

Agreed, FAU has made the final four a realistic possibility now for sure.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Not going to go digging back in time, but I bet you, along with most others, were singing a much different tune after the 2018 Football season (that ended with the Littrell extension after flirting with KSSt, and we were all VERY EXCITED about that, don't revise history... plus Mason Fine returning for his Senior season) VERSUS the 2018-19 Basketball season (that saw us lose 8 of our last 9 games, Smart graduating, and Woolridge transferring to Gonzaga).

Wanting to invest top dollar looks and sounds like recency bias. That's easy to think and say. I agree. But it makes more analytical and financial sense to invest in basketball. Simply put, it's more affordable. I would argue making deep post season basketball run gets more eyeballs and positive attention on the school than playing in the potato hot dog eating contest bowl on December 23rd in St Petersburg, Russia. 

[GMG_Dallas]

4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Cincy isn't the only outlier though.    UCF did it.  TCU did it in the MWC.   Heck, Northern Illinois did it.  We can too, and it would HUGE if/when we do. 

TCU went to the Big 12. Cincy and UCF are joining them. Northern Illinois did it but hasn't done much since. Our football forecast should we make a NY6 bowl would be much more in-line with NIU's trajectory post NY6 bowl than the other 3 unless we make it to a P5 conference. You can be a power in basketball regardless of conference affiliation. Gonzaga comes to mind but Wichita State was incredible for several years recently and has a rich history, the A10 is basketball rich with VCU, Dayton, and there's others.

I love football. I don't want us to get rid of football. We can have a greater national impact by giving more to basketball. We're in Texas and football is king. Tell that to UH, who yes, had great years in football but they're known for their basketball. Somebody said we'd be more like UTA than Marquette or other BE schools. My answer is no, we would not. We're the flagship. UT Arlington is not. We're not the same.

Going back to your comparisons (Cincy, UCF, TCU, NIU) TCU remained relevant longterm by going to the BIG 12, NIU has been irrelevant, and Cincy + UCF are to be determined but will likely be somewhat relevant due to conference affiliation. Long-term relevance is not common amongst G5 football programs. It absolutely can happen for mid-major basketball programs.

Edited April 11, 2023 by GMG_Dallas

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

TCU went to the Big 12. Cincy and UCF are joining them. Northern Illinois did it but hasn't done much since. Our football forecast should we make a NY6 bowl would be much more in-line with NIU's trajectory post NY6 bowl than the other 3 unless we make it to a P5 conference. You can be a power in basketball regardless of conference affiliation. Gonzaga comes to mind but Wichita State was incredible for several years recently and has a rich history, the A10 is basketball rich with VCU, Dayton, and there's others.

I love football. I don't want us to get rid of football. We can have a greater national impact by giving more to basketball. We're in Texas and football is king. Tell that to UH, who yes, had great years in football but they're known for their basketball. Somebody said we'd be more like UTA than Marquette or other BE schools. My answer is no, we would not. We're the flagship. UT Arlington is not. We're not the same.

Going back to your comparisons (Cincy, UCF, TCU, NIU) TCU remained relevant longterm by going to the BIG 12, NIU has been irrelevant, and Cincy + UCF are to be determined but will likely be somewhat relevant due to conference affiliation. Long-term relevance is not common amongst G5 football programs. It absolutely can happen for mid-major basketball programs.

I really feel, based on University size, metro locations, & directional names, that UNT & UCF are much the same.   NT can do what UCF did (earn a big boy seat).  It just takes time.

[GMG_Dallas]

8 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I really feel, based on University size, metro locations, & directional names, that UNT & UCF are much the same.   NT can do what UCF did (earn a big boy seat).  It just takes time.

Did UCF earn a big boy seat or did they have a few excellent seasons 4-6 years ago and seep back into irrelevance? If they weren't going to the Big 12 would anybody really say they earned a big boy seat or would they just be a G5 program that had a few excellent seasons that one time?

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Did UCF earn a big boy seat or did they have a few excellent seasons 4-6 years ago and seep back into irrelevance? If they weren't going to the Big 12 would anybody really say they earned a big boy seat or would they just be a G5 program that had a few excellent seasons that one time?

I'm confused.   

The bolded above is the "earning a seat" part I'm referring to.   They did so with their awesome run (starting from the O'Leary days) culminating in a "National Championship".   Littrell started up a run for us that stalled.   Hopefully Morris can get us back on track (9-win seasons), and then elevate us even higher.  If we can sustain that, and punch through once, we'll have opportunities to earn that same seat.

[C Rod]

18 hours ago, meangreen10 said:

Now, as far as it gaining national attention with a NYE bowl or anything like that, no. College football has its blue bloods and powerhouses (Joel Klatt preaches this well) and it is rare if ever broken. You get exceptions like Cincy two years ago but, come on. Making a March madness run is just so much more realistic. 

Our new AAC conference foe, Tulane just finished 9th in the nation last season and upset USC in the NY6 Cotton Bowl. Back-to-back years have shown us there is a path to playing in a NY6 bowl. We just have to win.

[GMG_Dallas]

4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I'm confused.   

The bolded above is the "earning a seat" part I'm referring to.   They did so with their awesome run (starting from the O'Leary days) culminating in a "National Championship".   Littrell started up a run for us that stalled.   Hopefully Morris can get us back on track (9-win seasons), and then elevate us even higher.  If we can sustain that, and punch through once, we'll have opportunities to earn that same seat.

I'll clarify. You can't depend on moving up in conference to establish your relevance. Plenty of G5 football programs have had very strong runs without moving up. Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, and obviously Boise State come to mind. You can be a very successful G5 football program but history as shown it doesn't last unless you're invited to a P5 conference. That isn't true for mid-majors in basketball. We have several examples of mid-major basketball programs having lasting success and establishing themselves as a big boy without moving on up in classification.

[Jonnyeagle]

4 hours ago, C Rod said:

Our new AAC conference foe, Tulane just finished 9th in the nation last season and upset USC in the NY6 Cotton Bowl. Back-to-back years have shown us there is a path to playing in a NY6 bowl. We just have to win.

I agree, the AAC is the best conference I think UNT has ever been in.  I know some may argue the Missouri Valley but to me there is still no comparison as the Missouri V did not have SMU who is likely our biggest rival in football next to UTSA.  

[GMG_Dallas]

4 hours ago, C Rod said:

Our new AAC conference foe, Tulane just finished 9th in the nation last season and upset USC in the NY6 Cotton Bowl. Back-to-back years have shown us there is a path to playing in a NY6 bowl. We just have to win.

Would you rather have what Tulane did last year in football knowing they'll likely come crashing back down in a year or two or have what Gonzaga and Houston have experienced in basketball? Would you rather be a fun story for 1 year or 5 plus years?

[MeanGreenTexan]

18 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Would you rather have what Tulane did last year in football knowing they'll likely come crashing back down in a year or two or have what Gonzaga and Houston have experienced in basketball? Would you rather be a fun story for 1 year or 5 plus years?

But the basketball runs like that are just as susceptible to flops as well.    Think about Steph-led Davidson, George Mason, and more-recently: Loyola-Chicago, St. Peter's, FAU...  Now, let's re-imagine your same exact question:
"Would you rather have what FAU did a month ago in basketball knowing they'll likely come crashing back down in a year or two, or have what UCF and TCU have experienced in football?"

 

[C Rod]

20 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Would you rather have what Tulane did last year in football knowing they'll likely come crashing back down in a year or two or have what Gonzaga and Houston have experienced in basketball? Would you rather be a fun story for 1 year or 5 plus years?

Call me greedy but I want UNT to make a name for itself as being great in both football and basketball. In this talent-rich market, I don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive. 

Also, focusing all of our resources to basketball would get us dropped from the AAC. Mike Aresco made it clear the AAC values schools that are serious about both football and basketball. As we all know, these sports are the real moneymakers in college athletics and the AAC needs the bowl game/ March Madness revenue in order to compete. This is not the time to think small and take steps backwards as we head into the AAC. 

Instead of creating a Sophie's Choice scenario, I think the better question us fans should be asking and debating is:

How do we quickly build a robust NIL Collective to compete in the AAC and not have it come at the expense of UNT Scholarship Fund donations? Last I checked, SMU's NIL Boulevard Collective is paying $36K to football and mens basketball players.

I had to do some digging to find the official NIL Light The Tower Collective website and it leaves a lot to be desired. The donor packages seem to be duplicated and thrown together when the website launched last year. The LTTC website is supposed to build donor confidence in the NIL collective, not shatter it to pieces.  

[GMG_Dallas]

2 hours ago, C Rod said:

Call me greedy but I want UNT to make a name for itself as being great in both football and basketball. In this talent-rich market, I don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive. 

Also, focusing all of our resources to basketball would get us dropped from the AAC. Mike Aresco made it clear the AAC values schools that are serious about both football and basketball. As we all know, these sports are the real moneymakers in college athletics and the AAC needs the bowl game/ March Madness revenue in order to compete. This is not the time to think small and take steps backwards as we head into the AAC. 

Instead of creating a Sophie's Choice scenario, I think the better question us fans should be asking and debating is:

How do we quickly build a robust NIL Collective to compete in the AAC and not have it come at the expense of UNT Scholarship Fund donations? Last I checked, SMU's NIL Boulevard Collective is paying $36K to football and mens basketball players.

I had to do some digging to find the official NIL Light The Tower Collective website and it leaves a lot to be desired. The donor packages seem to be duplicated and thrown together when the website launched last year. The LTTC website is supposed to build donor confidence in the NIL collective, not shatter it to pieces.  

I want both to be successful as well but that's not the question and also not the direction where we're headed. One program has a new coach after the previous one was fired, has 1 bowl win since 2004, 4 straight seasons of .500 or below play, has no set performance-dictated identity and so on. The other program has a new coach who was promoted after the previous one was hired awat, has 6 straight winning seasons 5 of which were 20+ win seasons, is coming off an NIT championship and 31 wins, and has established itself nationally as one of the toughest defensive teams in the country. Both have new coaches hired in very different circumstances.

Look, I'd love to have both be successful but look around the country. How many schools have top football AND men's basketball programs? Alabama basketball only recently started performing well with Nate Oates but otherwise there aren't many schools with top programs in both. UCLA and Tennessee (recently) maybe? Go back 15 years and you had Florida. Realistically right now we have to pick one. We don't have unlimited resources and we're not in a power conference. Even schools with much more resources and power conference status such as Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, Arizona, and so on can't figure out to be elite in both.

So again, for right now, pick one. Figure out which one to nurture a little more than the other, get it to elite status, raise the profile of the athletic department, and then use the rise of one to bring up the other. Considering where each program is right now, I pick basketball. 

 

Edit: had to address the Mike Aresco comment. Wichita State doesn't have football. Serious about both like Rice or UTSA? Rice isn't serious about either one and UTSA has heavily favored football. I'm not saying drop football. I'm saying give a little extra love to basketball in favor of football moving forward. Apogee, IPF, increased salaries and 1 bowl win to show for. Basketball has brought much more with a fraction of the love.

Edited April 12, 2023 by GMG_Dallas

[GMG_Dallas]

3 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

But the basketball runs like that are just as susceptible to flops as well.    Think about Steph-led Davidson, George Mason, and more-recently: Loyola-Chicago, St. Peter's, FAU...  Now, let's re-imagine your same exact question:
"Would you rather have what FAU did a month ago in basketball knowing they'll likely come crashing back down in a year or two, or have what UCF and TCU have experienced in football?"

 

Basketball. A final 4 run amongst the top programs while beating several of the biggest names is much better than a single bowl game between opponents set by a mix of contract requirements and ESPN's viewership needs. One is a postseason tournament with the best players giving their all and the other is a postseason scrimmage that top players sit out of. Not even a question for me.