One main reason Mac may take the Tech job

[Green Lantern]

3 hours ago, GoMeanGreen1999 said:

I am sure I will get bad ratings for this take, but I actually think we should drop football.  Become a basketball program and add baseball.  

I’m all for investing more in UNT Basketball - coaching salaries and especially a new arena. But I can’t get with anything at the expense of football. We can be great at both. Both need to be relevant.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Green Lantern

[Green Otaku]

12 hours ago, MrAlien said:

I dont think facilities play that big of a role when it comes to attracting coaches.  certainly salary plays a role, but I think control, and abilities can be an important part too.  

But how much of a role do facilities play for recruiting? I'd wager a lot. Being able to consistently pull in recruits is a key part to building long term success. 

[CMJ]

I tend to think all the extra facilities play a bigger role than the arenas themselves in recruiting.  Like your practice facilities and whatever recreation you put in the Mean Green Village where the athletes hang out, that kinda stuff.

 

UCLA renovated Pauley Pavilion about ten years ago, but before they did so the old Pauley was very old school.  I thought it was cool, but I doubt any McDonald's All-Americans were impressed with it.  Still the Bruins got a lot of top notch kids.  It wasn't just the tradition -- I'm sure it was all the extras.

[UNTLifer]

3 hours ago, GoMeanGreen1999 said:

I am sure I will get bad ratings for this take, but I actually think we should drop football.  Become a basketball program and add baseball.  

And what conference do you propose?  The AAC would drop us in a hot minute and nobody of relevance would pick us up.  Want to know what we would look like?  UTA-North.

[p_phelps]

10 hours ago, GoMeanGreen1999 said:

I am sure I will get bad ratings for this take, but I actually think we should drop football.  Become a basketball program and add baseball.  

[MrAlien]

7 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

But how much of a role do facilities play for recruiting? I'd wager a lot. Being able to consistently pull in recruits is a key part to building long term success. 

absolutely it matters to players, but we are talking about coaches, and I would wager most coaches would prefer total control of their program to a fancy looking practice gym. 

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, MrAlien said:

absolutely it matters to players, but we are talking about coaches, and I would wager most coaches would prefer total control of their program to a fancy looking practice gym. 

I think there are three tiers here, in terms of quality.

Fancy Looking Practice Gym (FAU) - Somewhere in the Middle (SP) - Top Tier (TTech/Wisconsin)

...not to mention some of these blue bloods play in venues that are seemingly old, beat up barnhouses, but their traditions and place in MBB lore make them impervious to any consideration for upgrade.

[untjim1995]

9 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

And what conference do you propose?  The AAC would drop us in a hot minute and nobody of relevance would pick us up.  Want to know what we would look like?  UTA-North.

Wichita State says hello from the AAC

[NT80]

10 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

But how much of a role do facilities play for recruiting? I'd wager a lot. Being able to consistently pull in recruits is a key part to building long term success. 

I don't agree.  UVU has a quality team that plays in a glorified high school gym.  St. Marys same.  FAU the same.  All programs can have quality athletes.  It's more about the Coaches, the Conference, the School.   I doubt you could find a player that will say he was mainly attracted to the arena to sign.

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

Wichita State says hello from the AAC

I count 103 Division 1 schools that don't have football:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_non-football_programs

I count 8 schools that are "name" schools and seven belong to the Big East which really is a basketball only conference.  Yes, a few schools play football, but outside of UConn, they are FCS level.  The eighth is Wichita St.

In Texas, the D1 schools that have basketball but no football are TAMU-CC, UTA and UTRGV.  Want to be coupled with those schools?  Yep, didn't think so.

Edited March 29, 2023 by UNTLifer

[untjim1995]

16 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I count 103 Division 1 schools that don't have football:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_non-football_programs

I count 8 schools that are "name" schools and seven belong to the Big East which really is a basketball only conference.  Yes, a few schools play football, but outside of UConn, they are FCS level.  The eighth is Wichita St.

In Texas, the D1 schools that have basketball but no football are TAMU-CC, UTA and UTRGV.  Want to be coupled with those schools?  Yep, didn't think so.

Your post was which conference would we join and that the AAC would kick us out. All I said was that WSU, who is in the AAC already, says hello to answer your point...

Has nothing to do with us dropping football or joining spares. Just pointing out that someone already in the AAC fits the description of non-football playing member.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

11 hours ago, Green Lantern said:

I’m all for investing more in UNT Basketball - coaching salaries and especially a new arena. But I can’t get with anything at the expense of football. We can be great at both. Both need to be relevant.

Probably not. 

Our basketball budget is 157th in the country. If we up the budget the UNT way, what will we be? 140th? That's still a shoestring budget and we'll continue to fall in and out of success. We don't have the athletic budget to be great at everything. 

[UNTLifer]

23 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Your post was which conference would we join and that the AAC would kick us out. All I said was that WSU, who is in the AAC already, says hello to answer your point...

Has nothing to do with us dropping football or joining spares. Just pointing out that someone already in the AAC fits the description of non-football playing member.

Oh, I don't disagree, but  they are definitely an oddity.

[TIgreen01]

Went looking for attendance numbers and ended up digging more into Gonzaga, their arena and historical attendance figures.  Prior to 2004 they played in a 4000 seat gym.  They averaged anywhere from 3000-3700 fans for almost all of the 1990s.  Sound familiar?  They made the tournament as a 14 seed in 1995 and lost.  Attendance did jump after that year from ~3100 in the years before to 3700 by 1999.  Then in that 1999 year they had their big break and made the Elite 8.  They followed that up with 2 straight trips to the Sweet 16...they have not missed a tournament since.  

In any event, this is probably the most successful basketball program in the entire nation outside of Kansas since 1999. They are without question one of the biggest brand names with the most appeal and recognition today.  They didn't start out that way.  They didn't start selling out their 4k seat gym until the year after an Elite 8 appearance.  In 2004, they expanded their gym by building an entirely new basketball arena that seats.... just 6000.  

The point of all of this is that in terms of attendance, we aren't all that far off for a school that has never really had that kind of success.  Back when JJ was here we were averaging between 4000 and 4400 his last few years.  It's disappointing that we aren't beating that now, but we're not as far off as I had thought before I started looking at attendance numbers.  The capacity of the Super Pit, more than anything else I think, contributes to us questioning our attendance numbers.  If we played in the 5k seat Snake Pit, we'd probably be known for having an outrageous atmosphere for basketball games.  Instead, we look up and think we're playing in a half-empty arena.

I might be coming over to the side who is pushing for a smaller arena.  Maybe not 5k...but a 6 or 7k arena would have fewer empty seats, helping create a buzz for those who are there (huge swaths of empty seats kill excitement and energy), and help create ticket scarcity for buzz outside the stadium and in the area.  It might seem counter productive, but it might just be what this program needs.  Obviously we'll have a few years to see what the AAC does to help by bringing in more recognizable conference opponents.  FAU and UAB should draw bigger crowds next year.  Memphis, Wichita State and Tulsa, will as well.  But I have a hard time seeing us pulling in 10k fans when the only school in Texas doing that is Texas Tech while playing elite basketball competition on the regular (at home) in a tiny town with nothing else to do.

Edited March 29, 2023 by TIgreen01

[Green Otaku]

8 hours ago, NT80 said:

I don't agree.  UVU has a quality team that plays in a glorified high school gym.  St. Marys same.  FAU the same.  All programs can have quality athletes.  It's more about the Coaches, the Conference, the School.   I doubt you could find a player that will say he was mainly attracted to the arena to sign.

I should have clarified, by facilities I meant training courts, locker rooms, player lounges, training facilities, team meeting rooms, etc. FAU caught lightning in a bottle, I wouldn't be surprised of some big donors came out to try and keep that success going.