New Ticket Pricing

[NT80]

48 minutes ago, Moobs said:

Normally, I'd agree with you.  But I think we now have administration, staff and alumni that are committed to building the programs up.  No need to build smaller or tear out the wing when you are moving into a bigger/better conference and are committed to building the programs up.

Yes, it's stupid to tear down perfectly good facilities.  The effort instead should be to increase attendance, thus increasing revenue, plus the potential to add even more fans in the future by word of mouth.

[UNTFan23]

58 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I'm never a fan of gouging a loyal fan base for more money when our teams play in a football stadium 2/3 filled (at most) and a basketball facility that rarely touches 50% capacity. 

Again, this is why we need smaller facilities.* Environment gets far superior and demand goes up. Otherwise, just disgruntled fans paying more while sitting in an echo chamber asling yourself why do I do this. 

 

*if a new bball facility is built, it can only be 5k at maximum. 

* rip the wing out of the football stadium and put the big scoreboard there when they start renovating. 

I wouldn't call increasing the price and seat minimums for premium seats gouging the entire fanbase. Odds are, those paying for those premium seats are already paying at least the minimum in the MGSF donation anyway.

I do agree the SP is too big and that we'll never consistently fill it to capacity. I think 5k is too small for a basketball arena and feel 7500 is a more reasonable number.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

56 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Yes, it's stupid to tear down perfectly good facilities.  The effort instead should be to increase attendance, thus increasing revenue, plus the potential to add even more fans in the future by word of mouth.

Big scoreboard > empty 2nd level bleacher seating 

 

If you take away our scoreboard (and if decent suites aren't added to the athletic building expansion) we might as well ask the local high schools if there is room for us at CH Collins. It's basically the same facilty at that point. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by NorthTexasWeLove

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

I wouldn't call increasing the price and seat minimums for premium seats gouging the entire fanbase. Odds are, those paying for those premium seats are already paying at least the minimum in the MGSF donation anyway.

I do agree the SP is too big and that we'll never consistently fill it to capacity. I think 5k is too small for a basketball arena and feel 7500 is a more reasonable number.

When has a men's or women's basketball game met 7500 in attendance? Less than a handful? A very nice 5k seat arena will create an awesome atmosphere which would push demand thus driving sales and pricing. 

If our current product was playing in a 5k seat arena the last 5 yrs profitability would be doubled up. More bodies at a much higher price 

Edited March 3, 2023 by NorthTexasWeLove

[NT80]

8 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Big scoreboard > empty 2nd level bleacher seating 

 

If you take away our scoreboard (and if decent suites aren't added to the athletic building expansion) we might as well ask the local high schools if there is room for us at CH Collins. It's basically the same facilty at that point. 

I agree the change from a single Big center videoboard to two smaller videoboards is a downgrade.  But many college stadiums are doing the same thing (corner videoboards) with renovations (cost savings?).  

I like unusual architecture in stadiums, like our endzone Wing.  I think they add uniqueness without much extra expense.  Originally Apogee was going to have double-poled and possible angled lights on the student side.  Instead we ended up with typical single-pole boring lights.  Unique lighting supports is an easy way to dress up a stadium for not much cost.

Edited March 4, 2023 by NT80

[DentonLurker]

10 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

 

I'm never a fan of gouging a loyal fan base

 

If asking fans to continue to step up is gouging them, this program is never going to get where we want to be.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:54 PM, UNTcrazy727 said:

We’re moving up conferences. Of course we were going to adjust pricing to be more in line with our new conference mates.

Club seats still seem like a good deal for an FBS program, IMO. 

$300 per seat to see Abilene Christian? Bargain! 

I am going to the Mavs game tomorrow to see Kyrie v Durant with the same amenities for less. Those amenities are, no assigned parking and ability to buy a beer/cocktail and access to premade food.

If I told anyone that I'm planning to spend $1500 to see one game with my kids at noon tomorrow when I can watch it on TV, you'd think I'm crazy/stupid/flippant... Or all of the above. 

But you think me taking my family to a crappy AAC game for $1500 is a bargain. Solid.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[GrayEagle]

I saw nothing but premium seats (hub club) having their prices raised.  Are those all that will be raised?  Or, will there be another announcement for raising the seat prices for the rest of the stadium?

[GrayEagle]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:23 AM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I'm never a fan of gouging a loyal fan base for more money when our teams play in a football stadium 2/3 filled (at most) and a basketball facility that rarely touches 50% capacity. 

Again, this is why we need smaller facilities.* Environment gets far superior and demand goes up. Otherwise, just disgruntled fans paying more while sitting in an echo chamber asling yourself why do I do this. 

 

*if a new bball facility is built, it can only be 5k at maximum. 

* rip the wing out of the football stadium and put the big scoreboard there when they start renovating. 

I totally agree with you on the gouging.  Using the example of the frog and the boiling water, if you put a frog in a pot of room temperature water he will be happy and content.  If you raise it a couple of degrees he'll hardly notice it and maybe a couple more times with the same results.  Then, if you turn it up to boiling he can't jump out.  If we are getting the results that we want then raise the prices.  If we had a waiting list for those wanting seats it would be different.  But for now let's fill the other third of the stadium before we start raising prices (the Hub Club is the exception).  Personally, my preference would be at the 6,000*6,500 level.  The old Pit held 5,000 when they pulled the seats out and it was SRO.  We were nowhere near a contender in those days but the competition drew that many.  I don't think that you'll draw enough with that capacity (5,000) to get a highly ranked team to come to Denton (unless it's a conference game).

*You wouldn't necessarily have to remove the wing zone.  LSU has a large video screen above the top tier of seats that is large enough to be seen by virtually anyone in the stadium.  Perhaps even the video screen in the south end zone could also be raised to a similar height and eliminate the four small video screens in the corners.  It might not work but it should be considered.  

Edited March 5, 2023 by GrayEagle

[NorthTexasWeLove]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:56 PM, DentonLurker said:

If asking fans to continue to step up is gouging them, this program is never going to get where we want to be.

Well, it is. Guess this program will never but where we want it to be, which (spoiler) it won't.

Our best yr in a decade, we were rewarded an ass beating by Troy in the NO Bowl. Before that, we beat UNLV in the HoD Bowl. Given our stature, these are our awards (bowl/opponent) in our up years of recent. Best case scenario: We play an underwhelmed non-chalant P5 team in a NY6 bowl. Though as fun as that may be, it's not meaningful, because G5s can't sustain. And it's, without saying, never going to lead to a P5 conference or natty. 

To add, we will struggle to get to bowl eligibility. So, not only are prices getting juiced, they're being juiced to watch a pedestrian product. 

It's gouging. 

[2020 Sucks]

This is a significant increase…an extra $150 for me over last year.  Football has to improve or I’ll just buy the GA seats at the gate and sit on the 50 in one of the hundreds of empty seats.  The football experience is about 1/3 of that for basketball.

[UNTcrazy727]

On 3/4/2023 at 8:26 PM, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

$300 per seat to see Abilene Christian? Bargain! 

I am going to the Mavs game tomorrow to see Kyrie v Durant with the same amenities for less. Those amenities are, no assigned parking and ability to buy a beer/cocktail and access to premade food.

If I told anyone that I'm planning to spend $1500 to see one game with my kids at noon tomorrow when I can watch it on TV, you'd think I'm crazy/stupid/flippant... Or all of the above. 

But you think me taking my family to a crappy AAC game for $1500 is a bargain. Solid.

 

 

 

 

Where are you seeing pricing for $300/game? The most expensive ticket listed is HUB Green in 2025 for $1,500, which would be $250/game. You can get HUB White tickets next year for $141/game. That might not even get you in the lower level for big Mavs games. 

 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

My bad, you're right.  I was doing faulty cell phone typing mental math. My point doesn't change with $250 per ticket instead of $300.

You are mixing up fair market value versus ticket price. The equivalent seating at the Mavericks game is Platinum level. 

https://www.mavs.com/clubmaverick/pricing/ 

The per ticket price for 'club level' at the Mavericks sets me back $140/seat per game. I get a parking pass in the garage across the street. I can sell my tickets EASILY for more money for the majority of the games. I never have to grovel to get someone to actually use my tickets.  People know they get a kick ass game day experience with music, lights, atmosphere, concessions that are all open, real game day traffic management .... dancers, fat dudes, drum line, NBA superstars. It is a *show*. Sure, for a "big game", you will pay higher on ticketmaster 3rd party, but let's just use apples to apples (the list price). 

My ticket per seat last year at UNT was around $140 per game.  When my fellow hub club friends (and myself) can't make a game, we've all scrambled to get someone to to just USE the ticket. I've never once been able to sell a ticket. There is no fair market for the tickets. I transfer my tickets to a friend of a friend who has kids at UNT and hope they use them. Most of the the time, they don't get used.  Some of my true football fan friends will ask if they can watch other games on the hub club if they use my tickets and I say it is unpredictable. Sometimes they gave games on the TV, sometimes they don't, sometimes they have the UNT game on, most the time not. There is no WiFi and the cell service is spotty. But you know, hey, maybe they can see last year's NCAA rankings or game day stats on the stadium screens. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Over the years the perks of being a donor have significantly dropped. There is no longer an awards ceremony at the end of the season. The parking situation is based off your yearly contributions, not lifetime points. The seating at bowl games is just ridiculous - open market prices let you choose your seat in better section versus just hoping that some luck in selection. You don't even get the fancy plastic collectable tickets anymore. They'd give you some special Mean Green swag that wasn't sold in the store. Etc. Etc. Love or hate RV, he tried to build a community. This assistants would text you, take you to lunch or beer. Casually ask you for a donation here and there. I *definitely* gave more money prior to Wren. It's been crickets from Wren's staff. Now this is the first introduction to the new AD. Their FAQ is a joke. It looks like it was written by a seventh grader.

I was kind of peeved with this out of the blue 55% price increase because I had the 'seat license' mentality. RV and Cooper Jones had laid out this whole "in perpetuity" concept that as long as you just buy the tickets, it remains yours since you paid the seat license. Once you stopped, you'd have to go through the process again. Even through Covid, I paid just to show my support and all of that. You know, good faith for the program and whatnot. So when I read this email, I had some lingering mental obligation in my head to the hub club and keeping it going "in perpetuity". Now that I can just drop out and pay the same price as anyone else if I decide to start caring again, hell, I can keep my money in my pocket. The Mavericks have never raised the prices 55% on me or called me up and tried to charge me $500 per game to park closer to the AAC. 

Bottom line: UNT is *way* out pricing its market. With a $140 a price ticket, they couldn't sell out the hub club, yet they are raising it to $250. There is no justification for increasing the price based on demand or product. It has neither offered more entertainment nor a better game day environment.

I really think whatever the boiling water frog scenario is going to play out for the club pricing. A couple of my college pals that have their families on the hub like me are seriously considering not renewing. They are burnt out. I may be burnt out too. I haven't really decided. Now that I am mentally freed, I may allocate my mean green money to going to the Paris Olympics or the US World Cup games.

Edited March 6, 2023 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[untcampbell]

I get your argument Steamin', and each will have to decide if they want to continue to support North Texas in the way they have in the past. I bought into the perpetuity model also, by the way. I'd have to go look at my contract but I suspect there is a clause that says something to the effect that "Seller has the right to change policy at any time."

I think the new pricing is to help pay for the things this board clamors for and to be competitive in a new, better conference. Being competitive in this conference gives us opportunities we won't get in the current situation.  

We ask for and depend on the "19 (or whatever the number is these days)" way too much. We are being asked to lighten the load a bit. Sort of like when politicians say they are only going to raise taxes on the rich, and then you and I see our taxes go higher also. And unlike athletic departments, the government doesn't give us the free choice to pay more. They just take it.

 

GMG

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

We have a better TV deal? We pay our coach less. Pay our AD less. Have more regional opponents. 

When I look at who is in the American now, it looks a lot like CUSA v3.0. We just follow Tulsa, Tulane, ECU around while dragging our SBC and CUSA v2.0 along with us. Once SMU is gone, this AAC "upgrade" will not really be much of an upgrade. It will be a lot like the name of "CUSA" but with the teams of "SBC" once all the good teams left (when we joined).  This feels most like groundhog's day for a higher price. 
 

[UNTcrazy727]

8 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

My bad, you're right.  I was doing faulty cell phone typing mental math. My point doesn't change with $250 per ticket instead of $300.

You are mixing up fair market value versus ticket price. The equivalent seating at the Mavericks game is Platinum level. 

https://www.mavs.com/clubmaverick/pricing/ 

The per ticket price for 'club level' at the Mavericks sets me back $140/seat per game. I get a parking pass in the garage across the street. I can sell my tickets EASILY for more money for the majority of the games. I never have to grovel to get someone to actually use my tickets.  People know they get a kick ass game day experience with music, lights, atmosphere, concessions that are all open, real game day traffic management .... dancers, fat dudes, drum line, NBA superstars. It is a *show*. Sure, for a "big game", you will pay higher on ticketmaster 3rd party, but let's just use apples to apples (the list price). 

My ticket per seat last year at UNT was around $140 per game.  When my fellow hub club friends (and myself) can't make a game, we've all scrambled to get someone to to just USE the ticket. I've never once been able to sell a ticket. There is no fair market for the tickets. I transfer my tickets to a friend of a friend who has kids at UNT and hope they use them. Most of the the time, they don't get used.  Some of my true football fan friends will ask if they can watch other games on the hub club if they use my tickets and I say it is unpredictable. Sometimes they gave games on the TV, sometimes they don't, sometimes they have the UNT game on, most the time not. There is no WiFi and the cell service is spotty. But you know, hey, maybe they can see last year's NCAA rankings or game day stats on the stadium screens. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Over the years the perks of being a donor have significantly dropped. There is no longer an awards ceremony at the end of the season. The parking situation is based off your yearly contributions, not lifetime points. The seating at bowl games is just ridiculous - open market prices let you choose your seat in better section versus just hoping that some luck in selection. You don't even get the fancy plastic collectable tickets anymore. Love or hate RV, he tried to build a community. This assistants would text you, take you to lunch or beer. Casually ask you for a donation here and there. I *definitely* gave more money prior to Wren. It's been crickets from Wren's staff. Now this is the first introduction to the new AD. Their FAQ is a joke. It looks like it was written by a seventh grader.

I was kind of peeved with this out of the blue 55% price increase because I had the 'seat license' mentality. RV and Cooper Jones had laid out this whole "in perpetuity" concept that as long as you just buy the tickets, it remains yours since you paid the seat license. Once you stopped, you'd have to go through the process again. Even through Covid, I paid just to show my support and all of that. You know, good faith for the program and whatnot. So when I read this email, I had some lingering mental obligation in my head to the hub club and keeping it going "in perpetuity". Now that I can just drop out and pay the same price as anyone else if I decide to start caring again, hell, I can keep my money in my pocket. The Mavericks have never raised the prices 55% on me or called me up and tried to charge me $500 per game to park closer to the AAC. 

Bottom line: UNT is *way* out pricing its market. With a $140 a price ticket, they couldn't sell out the hub club, yet they are raising it to $250. There is no justification for increasing the price based on demand or product. It has neither offered more entertainment nor a better game day environment.

I really think whatever the boiling water frog scenario is going to play out for the club pricing. A couple of my college pals that have their families on the hub like me are seriously considering not renewing. They are burnt out. I may be burnt out too. I haven't really decided. Now that I am mentally freed, I may allocate my mean green money to going to the Paris Olympics or the US World Cup games.

The Mavericks have 41 home games, while we have 6. They also have a lot more club level seats than we do. That's going to cause a big difference in price per game. The cost of our club level has been very low for years. And they still will be on the cheap side for an FBS program after the increases finish in 2025. For example, in 2021, it cost between $1,450 and $1,500 for SMU club seats. For Houston, the only data I could find is from 2019. Their club level seats were $1,525.  Even after the 2025 increases, around half of our club level will be priced well below these at $1,250. 

If someone doesn't want to pay the increased costs that's fine. But it's not accurate to say the AD is price gouging when you look at what other Texas AAC schools have been charging recently. 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

9 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

The cost of our club level has been very low for years.

So has the attendance. There is no waiting list. The reason our club level has been 'low for years' is because all of those people shelled out (upfront) tens of thousands of dollars. 

You bring up SMU and Houston, which have been ranked in the last few years and have hosted larger schools. Perhaps there is more excitement, I can't speak to them and theirs. I can only speak to what is has been going on at our club level. 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

41 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

But it's not accurate to say the AD is price gouging when you look at what other Texas AAC schools have been charging recently. 

Also man, it seems like you are willfully ignoring the total cost people had already paid. 

A person bought 4 seats, they paid $12,500 each seat for the "seat license". Cool, they wrote a check for $50,000 to the AD and then bought their $140/seat tickets and their minimum MGC donation $500 per seat. Let's do that over 5 years (since the last increase in minimum donation).

$50,000 [seat license cost]
$3360 [tickets + donations] x 5 years = $16,800

Over five years the total cost has been $66,800.

Since you like to price it yearly, that is $13,360 per year for 4 seats or $3340 per seat. 

Which is $556 per seat each game. 

That is not a bargain. But that $50k upfront makes the long term price to gradually balance out to a more reasonable per game price (for those keeping score in their heads). 

But this change makes it so all of that is just a sunk cost and broken promises, kind of insult to those that ponied up for UNT when they were in need to get a real stadium. I've said my fill, nothing more to add. But the true cost over 5 years is $556, not what you are listing for SMU and Houston. 

 

[UNTcrazy727]

12 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Also man, it seems like you are willfully ignoring the total cost people had already paid. 

A person bought 4 seats, they paid $12,500 each seat for the "seat license". Cool, they wrote a check for $50,000 to the AD and then bought their $140/seat tickets and their minimum MGC donation $500 per seat. Let's do that over 5 years (since the last increase in minimum donation).

$50,000 [seat license cost]
$3360 [tickets + donations] x 5 years = $16,800

Over five years the total cost has been $66,800.

Since you like to price it yearly, that is $13,360 per year for 4 seats or $3340 per seat. 

Which is $556 per seat each game. 

That is not a bargain. But that $50k upfront makes the long term price to gradually balance out to a more reasonable per game price (for those keeping score in their heads). 

But this change makes it so all of that is just a sunk cost and broken promises, kind of insult to those that ponied up for UNT when they were in need to get a real stadium. I've said my fill, nothing more to add. But the true cost over 5 years is $556, not what you are listing for SMU and Houston. 

 

I would be interested to hear how the remaining balance of the stadium fund contributions are being handled. If someone has 2 years of payments left, is the remaining amount being forgiven? Or lets say someone paid off their stadium fund contribution early, are they seeing some kind of refund on the remaining years of the lease? If the answer is no, then there's a definite gripe to be had and possible legal action. 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

1 minute ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

I would be interested to hear how the remaining balance of the stadium fund contributions are being handled. If someone has 2 years of payments left, is the remaining amount being forgiven? Or lets say someone paid off their stadium fund contribution early, are they seeing some kind of refund on the remaining years of the lease? If the answer is no, then there's a definite gripe to be had and possible legal action. 

One of my friends just paid off his two seats last year. He had priced in how he can afford to up here on some stable price. Now he will be paying out the nose. He is furious. He is not coming back, I don't know how UNT can reclaim him as a fan. He is so mad that he won't even tell the AD how mad he is. He is just leaving. 

[UNTcrazy727]

8 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

One of my friends just paid off his two seats last year. He had priced in how he can afford to up here on some stable price. Now he will be paying out the nose. He is furious. He is not coming back, I don't know how UNT can reclaim him as a fan. He is so mad that he won't even tell the AD how mad he is. He is just leaving. 

But under the old model wouldn't he be required to pay another stadium fund contribution over 5 years? The flyer I found makes it seem like the stadium fund contribution only covers 5 years...But I'll defer to people with actual experience. 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

9 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

But under the old model wouldn't he be required to pay another stadium fund contribution over 5 years? The flyer I found makes it seem like the stadium fund contribution only covers 5 years...But I'll defer to people with actual experience. 

No, it is a one time donation per seat. It is a "seat license" model but they would let you pay it off over five years. Therefore the ticket prices were lower historically, since you paid so much upfront. It nearly guaranteed you being there long term, since it plays on the sunken cost fallacy. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[cousin oliver]

1 hour ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

That is not a bargain. But that $50k upfront makes the long term price to gradually balance out to a more reasonable per game price (for those keeping score in their heads). 

But this change makes it so all of that is just a sunk cost and broken promises, kind of insult to those that ponied up for UNT when they were in need to get a real stadium. I've said my fill, nothing more to add. But the true cost over 5 years is $556, not what you are listing for SMU and Houston. 

Yes it does seem like they are trying to move away from that original model now.

[UNTcrazy727]

6 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

No, it is a one time donation per seat. It is a "seat license" model but they would let you pay it off over five years. Therefore the ticket prices were lower historically, since you paid so much upfront. It nearly guaranteed you being there long term, since it plays on the sunken cost fallacy. 

I guess the AD thought it was doing more harm than good. I'm sure it was a massive barrier that kept a lot of people away. Sounds like they're betting on selling more season tickets at a higher price that will help offset the loss of future stadium fund contributions. 

Your example of what someone paid with the seat license for 4 tickets versus No seat license and higher ticket price (using Green 2025 pricing):

$50,000 [seat license cost]
$3360 [4 tickets + donations] x 5 years = $16,800

Over five years the total cost has been $66,800

--------

$0 [seat license cost]

$6,000 [4 tickets + donations] x 5 years = $30,000

Over five years the total cost will be $30,000

While I 100% get the frustration of you and your friend, I think this move will help increase Club Seats sales and grow the MGSF, which the athletic dept desperately needs. Though I think it would be a smart move to offer any fan who paid off their stadium fund contribution a percentage off the new ticket prices. 

 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

7 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Though I think it would be a smart move to offer any fan who paid off their stadium fund contribution a percentage off the new ticket prices. 

Right. Honor what was sold.. gradually increase minimum donations over time. Don't send a vague email saying that everyone gets their prices nearly doubled within two years. 

I'm not sure they will get those replacement people at the higher price. They sell weekly tickets at face value for all the unsold hub seats. They *never* sold out. Ever. So even at the lower price, they can't draw (without seat license). They need to improve their product. 
 

Edited March 6, 2023 by SteaminWillieBeamin