SMU potentially to the PAC-12

rcade · February 13, 2023

Has there ever been a Central timezone college football team that joined a Mountain-and-Pacific timezone conference and became a stronger program as a result?

I couldn't find any Central schools that ever joined the PAC-12 or Mountain West.

UNT is the only one I can think was helped, but only because we were FCS level before joining the Big West so any FBS conference would've been an improvement. And fans were ecstatic to get out of the Big West.

ColoradoEagle · February 13, 2023

4 minutes ago, rcade said:

Has there ever been a Central timezone college football team that joined a Mountain-and-Pacific timezone conference and became a stronger program as a result?

I couldn't find any Central schools that ever joined the PAC-12 or Mountain West.

UNT is the only one I can think was helped, but only because we were FCS level before joining the Big West so any FBS conference would've been an improvement. And fans were ecstatic to get out of the Big West.

TCU...

Green Otaku · February 13, 2023

2 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Not sure. The only thing that might be similar (maybe), is that the WAC is claiming that the FBS charter they have is still valid, even though they have not played FBS football in years. I did find this in reference when people were saying with UT and OU leaving the Big 12 was finished - the study states, “The B12 A-5 status will be fully assured through at least any big reorganization of NCAA models.” Then goes on to state, “fans can stop worrying if the new-look Big 12 will remain a ‘Power Five’ conference.

As I said in the other thread I don't think P5 is an official designation, it is an old hold over from the Automatic Qualifier (AQ) status of the BCS. Those conferences had contractual agreements with the BCS bowls for their champion to be in those bowls, and while conferences still have tie-ins to those bowl, there is no automatic qualification to the playoff. It was a way to distinguish haves and the have-nots. Even as we go forward the 6 highest champs from any conference are eligible for the playoff, with no conference guaranteed an automatic bid.

Green Otaku · February 13, 2023

Our friends from the hilltop seem to be pretty quiet lately. You're not getting nervous are you?

Edited February 13, 2023 by Green Otaku

NT80 · February 13, 2023

5 hours ago, DentonStang said:

Yeah, you'd sure turn down an invite to the PAC just because of rumors it might lose teams. Sure. Lol.

You can go down that rabbit hole, but you have to think about the potential risks/rewards.

The big carrot is P5. But will that designation still have meaning much longer since the CFP is changing?

If everyone is invited to the party there is no P5 and G5. It's only a football designation.

The lure of playing beside Oregon, Stanford, Arizona St., et al may be a pipedream too. As soon as you enter they will be leaving.

UNTLifer · February 13, 2023

4 hours ago, dodgefan said:

Ridiculous, we would be ecstatic beyond comprehension, if we thought UNT had even a slender chance, of moving to the PAC12 or any P5.

We? Didn't realize you were a fan of the program.

No, I would hope our leadership had the fortitude to seriously review the entire situation prior to making the jump. smu is so Dallas, always worried about appearances. If the PAC loses four teams to the Big10 and four to the Big XII, which is a distinct possibility considering the PAC12's inability to secure a broadcast deal, then what is the attraction?

UNTLifer · February 13, 2023

At this point, I hope they make the jump. Please go, but I foresee a LA Tech situation in your future.

Green Otaku · February 13, 2023

4 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

This. It amazes me people are saying we would not join a P5. We just joined a conference that lost its best teams in hopes that we can be part of rebuilding it. So sorry but with all due respect those that are saying they would turn down an invitation to a P5 conference are letting their emotions getting the way of reality.

This needs to be posted again. No way UNT would turn the same invite down. You plan and have contingencies if things go south, but you don't give up the chance .

Let's look at it this way, the AAC said they were losing 3, then they lose SMU, then they lose USF, Memphis, and Tulane. Are we going back to CUSA? Yeah, I don't think so either.

keith · February 13, 2023

All the arguments why SMU should not join the Pac12 (if they get the invite) could have applied to our decision to join the AAC. Why should we join if SMU and Memphis (rumored at the time) have one foot out the door. Why do we think we can win the AAC if we can't win in C-USA. With the expanded CFP, we'd be better off staying and winning in C-USA, blah, blah, blah. The P5 will continue to be the P5 even if it's only in name, exposure, media rights or whatever. The divide is likely to get bigger between the have and have-nots, not smaller. The P5 cabal will do what they can to lock in their position in the hierarchy and only admit those they deem worthy. Unless they all go to 20, there are only a few seats left at the table. SMU would be the biggest fool on the planet if they didn't grab a seat before the music stopped.

DentonStang · February 13, 2023

1 hour ago, Green Otaku said:

Our friends from the hilltop seem to be pretty quiet lately. You're not getting nervous are you?

No. With people actually saying they wouldn't go to the PAC on this board either everyone is bring disingenuous or they are supremely clueless. Either way not much more to talk about until something happens. Either we'll go, or PAC will back out. Then the media deal will be decent, or good, and we will move on. Or it will be unbelievably bad and all hell will break loose.

NT80 · February 13, 2023

1 hour ago, Green Otaku said:

This needs to be posted again. No way UNT would turn the same invite down. You plan and have contingencies if things go south, but you don't give up the chance .

Let's look at it this way, the AAC said they were losing 3, then they lose SMU, then they lose USF, Memphis, and Tulane. Are we going back to CUSA? Yeah, I don't think so either.

Depends on what the purpose is. To gain a P5 conference? That designation is soon going away and the makeup of the PAC will be greatly changing too. So, after all that, why go there?

Green Otaku · February 13, 2023

43 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Depends on what the purpose is. To gain a P5 conference? That designation is soon going away and the makeup of the PAC will be greatly changing too. So, after all that, why go there?

Because you go until it isn't. Right now those 10 teams are in the PAC, and it is a P5. The moment it isn't, and it hits the threshold of what you aren't willing to tolerate you change plans.

Green Otaku · February 13, 2023

26 minutes ago, ADLER said:

"Wait!!! Can I Still Buy A Ticket!!!"

No G5 is turning down an invitation as it stands right now. Even as someone who thinks there is a very real risk of losing the 4 corners schools if the media deal is bad, any school would roll the dice and hope it works out. It's just the reality of things.

NT80 · February 13, 2023

2 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

Because you go until it isn't. Right now those 10 teams are in the PAC, and it is a P5. The moment it isn't, and it hits the threshold of what you aren't willing to tolerate you change plans.

NT has experience going into conferences that look like sunshine and turn to rain... Southland, Sunbelt, Big West, CUSA... Going into the AAC it will not be the same AAC it is today, the best programs are leaving. Same with the PAC12, it will not be the same when Smut joins in two years as it is today. We all know it, but most would take the chance anyway....only to get rained on again.

El Paso Eagle · February 14, 2023

The hard part on something like this is keeping SMU the team and most of their fans, separate from SMU douc bag fans. We have some pony fans come here and make good points, and others who only like to repeat how they can pay more for players. I'm of the belief that we would switch places with them in a heartbeat to get the opportunity at a P5 conference. However, some fans that make who hope this goes bad for them. Like the ones who keep talking about how much they can pay and others starting to post that the Pac 12 is really a better conference and a better option than the Big 12.

TripleGrad · February 14, 2023

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

NT has experience going into conferences that look like sunshine and turn to rain... Southland, Sunbelt, Big West, CUSA... Going into the AAC it will not be the same AAC it is today, the best programs are leaving. Same with the PAC12, it will not be the same when Smut joins in two years as it is today. We all know it, but most would take the chance anyway....only to get rained on again.

-Every- conference change for UNT has been into a conference that wasn't what we thought it would be. Given our history, it's stunning that North Texas isn't getting the PAC invite. Seems the universe is missing a golden opportunity to laugh again . . .

Green Otaku · February 14, 2023

2 hours ago, NT80 said:

NT has experience going into conferences that look like sunshine and turn to rain... Southland, Sunbelt, Big West, CUSA... Going into the AAC it will not be the same AAC it is today, the best programs are leaving. Same with the PAC12, it will not be the same when Smut joins in two years as it is today. We all know it, but most would take the chance anyway....only to get rained on again.

It's the sad life of the G5. The only way to break the cycle is to make yourself big enough so you can't be ignored and hope you get a golden ticket. We've been climbing little by little, and we have finally reached a conference with a track record of helping teams grow and take the next step. It's up to us now to be as successful as the 3 that are leaving.

greenminer · February 14, 2023

The state of PAC12. The state of SMU, having been left behind in the previous shakeup.

This just doesn't have the splash that everything else has been.

It feels like the PAC12 reaching for Dallas is a last-resort, don't-know-what's-gonna-happen move.

and SMU! they didn't get to the B12, but don't want to be associated with UNT. ...they'll accept this under the beautiful mask of a P5 invite, but they are reading in between the lines and facing the reality that the world doesn't view them the same as Houston/TCU/TTech. So they take the first ship that will take them aboard, no matter how far away the new home is.

SMU2006 · February 14, 2023

On 2/13/2023 at 12:07 PM, Green Otaku said:

Our friends from the hilltop seem to be pretty quiet lately. You're not getting nervous are you?

Nope. Its a matter if when not if. Expecting a formal announcement in the next two weeks.

SMU2006 · February 14, 2023

18 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

The hard part on something like this is keeping SMU the team and most of their fans, separate from SMU douc bag fans. We have some pony fans come here and make good points, and others who only like to repeat how they can pay more for players. I'm of the belief that we would switch places with them in a heartbeat to get the opportunity at a P5 conference. However, some fans that make who hope this goes bad for them. Like the ones who keep talking about how much they can pay and others starting to post that the Pac 12 is really a better conference and a better option than the Big 12.

The PAC, as currently constructed, is a much better fit for SMU not just with respect to athletics but academics. Look at the research dollars schools like ASU, Colorado, Utah have raked in due primarily to their association with the PAC-12. If the conference keeps Washington and Oregon happy then its a no-brainer compared to the hayseed truck stops like Manhattan KS, Stillwater, Ames, Morgantown, Waco, Lubbock, etc.

Edited February 14, 2023 by SMU2006

NT80 · February 14, 2023

8 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

The PAC, as currently constructed, is a much better fit for SMU not just with respect to athletics but academics. Look at the research dollars schools like ASU, Colorado, Utah have raked in due primarily to their association with the PAC-12. If the conference keeps Washington and Oregon happy then its a no-brainer compared to the hayseed truck stops like Manhattan KS, Stillwater, Ames, Morgantown, Waco, Lubbock, etc.

This expansion, if it happens, has nothing to do with Smu academics from the PAC viewpoint. It's all about the DFW media market, and if that can translate into a higher media rights offer. The PAC is also considering UNLV, for the Las Vegas media market. This is survival as a conference.

If the media rights $$ come in less than the Big12's, the next move is by the Big12 to offer membership to the PAC 4-corner schools. When/if Smu joins in two years, the PAC will be mostly MWC schools and Smu.

SMU2006 · February 14, 2023

6 minutes ago, NT80 said:

This expansion, if it happens, has nothing to do with Smu academics from the PAC viewpoint. It's all about the DFW media market, and if that can translate into a higher media rights offer. The PAC is also considering UNLV, for the Las Vegas media market. This is survival as a conference.

If the media rights $$ come in less than the Big12's, the next move is by the Big12 to offer membership to the PAC 4-corner schools. When/if Smu joins in two years, the PAC will be mostly MWC schools and Smu.

All of the things you say are possible...

But we won't be in a conference with Charlotte, Rice, UAB, FAU, Tulsa and a few others that have all but given up on college football and have absolutely no chance of competing in the future with NIL. And that alone is more than enough to roll the dice. Not to mention even in a doomsday scenario the TV dollars will be double the AAC.

Edited February 14, 2023 by SMU2006

ColoradoEagle · February 14, 2023

1 hour ago, SMU2006 said:

Not to mention even in a doomsday scenario the TV dollars will be double the AAC.

The current MWC deal is about half the AAC. I'm not sure MWC+SMU, OSU, WSU, and Cal is double the AAC even after the losses. Might not even be as much since getting media dollars is difficult in the Mountain and Pacific timezones. Kinda why the Pac 12 is falling apart in the first place.

dodgefan · February 15, 2023

17 hours ago, SMU2006 said:

All of the things you say are possible...

But we won't be in a conference with Charlotte, Rice, UAB, FAU, Tulsa and a few others that have all but given up on college football and have absolutely no chance of competing in the future with NIL. And that alone is more than enough to roll the dice. Not to mention even in a doomsday scenario the TV dollars will be double the AAC.

Several of those schools mentioned are real head scratchers, almost to the point of embarrassing, so why were they invited to the AAC?

ADLER · February 15, 2023

19 minutes ago, dodgefan said:

Several of those schools mentioned are real head scratchers, almost to the point of embarrassing, so why were they invited to the AAC?

That's almost verbatim what the Pac12 presidents have been saying lately concerning their own conference.