SMU potentially to the PAC-12

Mike Jackson · March 8, 2023

39 minutes ago, greenminer said:

There seems to be two views here:

1) Get yourself in a conference that is weak as possible, so that one singular team can carry the torch into national prominence/contention, OR...

2) Surround yourself by the highest level of competition you can, join/match their efforts, and hope that it elevates your own play as well as any external (IE, media) perceptions of you (and your conference)

I happen to think option #1 is an extremely risky model to pursue. That the ones who do it are outliers, teams that enjoy a combination of unique circumstances and/or luck. The rest of the time, when people pursue this, the media piles on the poor perceptions, you get lumped in with those pile-ons, and then spend all your effort failing to climb out of that situation.

The ultimate debate item all this points to is the value of a conference name. I think that value is very little without the brands under that conference umbrella that drove people to watch games in that conference. Indiana vs Northwestern is never going to draw big numbers (unless it passed the midpoint of the season and they have 1 loss combined between them). If your conference game inventory has a lot of those types of games it drives the value of the conference down. So all the non-P5 additions the PAC 12 are considered adds to that low value conference game inventory. San Diego and Dallas are great markets. But more people aren’t going to watch SDSU vs SMU just because it is a PAC 12 game. I will look up the rating the last time they played and post it here later.

Green Otaku · March 8, 2023

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

There seems to be two views here:

1) Get yourself in a conference that is weak as possible, so that one singular team can carry the torch into national prominence/contention, OR...

2) Surround yourself by the highest level of competition you can, join/match their efforts, and hope that it elevates your own play as well as any external (IE, media) perceptions of you (and your conference)

I happen to think option #1 is an extremely risky model to pursue. That the ones who do it are outliers, teams that enjoy a combination of unique circumstances and/or luck. The rest of the time, when people pursue this, the media piles on the poor perceptions, you get lumped in with those pile-ons, and then spend all your effort failing to climb out of that situation.

Option 2 is definitely the way to go. What happens if that member goes on multi-year down cycles? You also get legitimacy questions since they play in a weak conference, and it requires teams to have perfect seasons. We always hear about a 2 loss Alabama team still being considered for the CFP since they play in such a strong conference.

El Paso Eagle · March 8, 2023

4 hours ago, Matt from A700 said:

Maybe just create a new subforum for General non-UNT NCAA talk.

Isn't that why they have the Eagles' Nest?

untphd · March 8, 2023

1 hour ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Isn't that why they have the Eagles' Nest?

It's not even past 20 pages yet.

DeepGreen · March 9, 2023

3 hours ago, untphd said:

It's not even past 20 pages yet.

Just goes to show you, if it's not a UNT sports related topic it will get no traction.

NT80 · March 9, 2023

The big media deal reveal for the PAC12 (and expansion news) that was supposed to happen today, didn't. Just crickets. Next PAC CEO meeting is March 21.

dodgefan · March 9, 2023

9 hours ago, NT80 said:

The big media deal reveal for the PAC12 (and expansion news) that was supposed to happen today, didn't. Just crickets. Next PAC CEO meeting is March 21.

I would imagine having lawyers representing ESPN, Amazon and Apple all at the table, would be a complicated process.

MeanGreen22 · March 9, 2023

We’re still talking about this? If SMU wants to go be a middling PAC-12 team rather than a middling American team, so be it.

El Paso Eagle · March 10, 2023

NT80 · March 10, 2023

1 hour ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Lol. Smut fans don't leave their zip code for games.

(Note: they won't attend games within their zip code either)

UNTLifer · March 10, 2023

Forgot to wear their ”Dallas” uni’s.

Mike Jackson · March 10, 2023

21 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

We’re still talking about this? If SMU wants to go be a middling PAC-12 team rather than a middling American team, so be it.

I definitely get that sentiment and SMU being a middling team in a PAC 12 that retains all its members (minus USC & UCLA) is optimistic for SMU. I am more concerned how the fate of the PAC-12 affects UNT and our conference. A rivalry that transcends conference affiliation is great but the more meaningful you can make the game beyond just the rivalry the better. The only ways you can do that is by either, a trophy, a unique destination neutral field or conference standings. I have long thought it was dumb and short sighted for TCU, SMU, and UNT not to play each other every year and exchange “a commander’s cup” like the service academies do. The dissolution of rivalries has been the worst aspect of conference realignment. That to me why the recent SEC expansion is the only one that isn’t a net negative to the sport as a whole IMO.

So really this thread is more about conference realignment impacting the AAC more than SMU. The original poster should change the title. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Matt from A700 · March 10, 2023

Playing SMU at Dickies next spring would be awesome.

Just hope our guys don't get scared when they see the other team with "SMU" on their chest like the football team does. I don't think that'll happen though.

letsgiveacheer · March 10, 2023

20 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Chris @holeintherug

Replying to

@gocoogs1

The only people that care about SMU are North Texas fans

_______________________________________________________________

Truer words were never spoken!

dodgefan · March 10, 2023

Why doesn't UNT play TCU?

GrandGreen · March 11, 2023

Am I the only poster that is tired of seeing this tired SMU tread? I know by posting on the tread, it will just last longer; but I would like to request that this thread be locked and allowed to die.

NorthTexasWeLove · March 11, 2023

1 hour ago, dodgefan said:

Why doesn't UNT play TCU?

Well, the quick answer is elitism. The very reason why smu wants out of our series and/or not be affiliated with us in a conference. They truly think they're elite, better than us. Not just athletically, but every way of life.

TIgreen01 · March 11, 2023

On 3/9/2023 at 9:09 PM, El Paso Eagle said:

I watched parts of the UH game today in that same arena. Not many more were there for the #1 (or 2) ranked team in the country.

GMG_Dallas · March 11, 2023

NT80 · March 11, 2023

5 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

The Utah AD and Head Football coach are both "For" joining the Bg12. It's the school Pres that doesn't want to associate with the lesser academic schools in the Big12. This is the issue for many PAC schools: athletics vs academics. It's also why the PAC has been limited in expansion candidates....looking only at academic schools instead of athletic schools, like Boise and Fresno.

Btw....this thread has more expansion news than Smut news. It does affect NT in that MWC schools could become available to the AAC.

GMG_Dallas · March 11, 2023

24 minutes ago, NT80 said:

The Utah AD and Head Football coach are both "For" joining the Bg12. It's the school Pres that doesn't want to associate with the lesser academic schools in the Big12. This is the issue for many PAC schools: athletics vs academics. It's also why the PAC has been limited in expansion candidates....looking only at academic schools instead of athletic schools, like Boise and Fresno.

Btw....this thread has more expansion news than Smut news. It does affect NT in that MWC schools could become available to the AAC.

It was a satirical post. Thought it was funny. We're not the only loves chuckling at that mess.

GrayEagle · March 11, 2023

Well, the AAC has Rice, Tulane, Tulsa and, as you know, SMU. From there the pickins' get slim. The MWC has the Air Force Academy and ???. The Big XII has Brigham Young, TCU, Baylor and several others that are above average scholastically. The PAC-12 doesn't really know who will be left. So, if the other four-corner universities decide on the Big XII does Utah go or stay? Usually, the President of a university has the final say but they can occasionally be persuaded to the majority.

I don't see that academics are that important; especially without Cal, Stanford, UCLA and USC.

NT80 · March 11, 2023

27 minutes ago, GrayEagle said:

Well, the AAC has Rice, Tulane, Tulsa and, as you know, SMU. From there the pickins' get slim. The MWC has the Air Force Academy and ???. The Big XII has Brigham Young, TCU, Baylor and several others that are above average scholastically. The PAC-12 doesn't really know who will be left. So, if the other four-corner universities decide on the Big XII does Utah go or stay? Usually, the President of a university has the final say but they can occasionally be persuaded to the majority.

I don't see that academics are that important; especially without Cal, Stanford, UCLA and USC.

The thing the Presidents are forgetting is that the to-be-determined media rights revenue $$ are all based on member's Athletic success and enticing viewership, not their Academic success.

Mike Jackson · March 13, 2023

On 3/10/2023 at 7:13 PM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Well, the quick answer is elitism. The very reason why smu wants out of our series and/or not be affiliated with us in a conference. They truly think they're elite, better than us. Not just athletically, but every way of life.

It is a very stupid way for them to look at any local FBS level program. If I am TCU or SMU of course I would want to play UT, TAMU, or maybe even Tech if it is one for one trade. Financially it just makes too much sense not to play D1 programs within 30-40 miles of your campus. Cheap travel, easier to sell tickets and have events for the “away” game. It isn’t like hundreds of local students will switch which school they want to go to simply over one football game win. And plenty of alumni have undergraduate and graduate degrees 2 of these schools. I maintain if there were a series held between all 3 schools consistently since 1995 all 3 programs would be in a better place today. (Or in TCU’s case in a P5 sooner than when the Big 12 added them).

dodgefan · March 13, 2023

On 3/10/2023 at 7:13 PM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Well, the quick answer is elitism. The very reason why smu wants out of our series and/or not be affiliated with us in a conference. They truly think they're elite, better than us. Not just athletically, but every way of life.

I've seen nothing that SMU wants out of our series, didn't they recently sign an extension with UNT? Have our people reached out to TCU? The TCU campus is 39 miles and the SMU campus is 41 miles from UNT, so why are we not pursuing a series from the Frogs?