New Basketball Arena proposed on Light the Tower Masterplan update

[NT80]

1 hour ago, Green Otaku said:

Did Rice having a 70k football stadium help them in any way? Again, what's the point of having the empty seats that we can't fill? 

You have to look at where Rice was in football when their current stadium was built (by the city of Houston) in 1950.  They were replacing an older stadium from 1913.  Rice had just won the SWC in 1949, and previously in 1934, 1937, and 1946.  They were a football power in Texas and won the SWC again in their new stadium in 1953 and 1957.  Plus they were the only game in town, no pro football and UH had just started a program in 1946 but were in the LSC.  UH also played home games there until 1964.

[NT80]

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

I guess I am in the minority of this issue, but building a new smaller arena makes no sense to me.  

Costs a lots of money and will accomplish what?  Better recruiting, better attendance, I doubt it once the new wears off. 

I always look at UTA, who by the way had to replace their basketball arena; still poor attendance and no notable improvement in the overall program.  

As for UTA, they had no prior basketball arena, and needed one badly.  They played on the literal "stage" at Texas Hall, more like an opera house than an arena, with the concert pit just off the side edge of the court...talk about dangerous!  Their arena also serves the university as a graduation and concert venue.  The school still underfunds athletics and has little fan support. It was said when UTA eliminated football that they would put money into becoming a basketball power...lol, not so much.  In fact the SBC kicked them out because of no football and the MVC didn't want them so they were forced into the far-flung WAC. 

For us, I see a new arena as similar to our Fouts situation, except the university controls use of the SuperPit, not Athletics.  A new venue would be controlled by Athletics.  It would combine a new court with new locker rooms, practice facilities, plus a new volleyball arena.  Suites and loge boxes would add revenue.  Modern lighting, signage, and concessions.  But it would involve a loss of seating, perhaps on purpose to make it more intimate at games?

I do love the SuperPit and it shouldn't be discarded until we actually need a new venue.

[golfingomez]

15 hours ago, CMJ said:

Wikipedia is incorrect.  The SMU game was on January 22nd.  I know this because my Mom went into labor with my older brother at that game.

are you saying the attendance should be corrected to 10,601*?

[Green Otaku]

59 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

My line of thinking is why spend money on something you don't need. 

Pull some deadline out of the blue, you or I don't know how long the Spit will last without a major expenditure. 

I certainly don't want to get in a discussion on asbestos tiles or weakening substructure until someone presents some actual facts.  

So again, should the AC be upgraded? Is it really needed? 

[UNTFan23]

1 minute ago, Green Otaku said:

So again, should the AC be upgraded? Is it really needed? 

Athletics Center is out of room. In many cases offices have two people. Weight room is undersized given the teams it serves.

[Green Otaku]

35 minutes ago, NT80 said:

You have to look at where Rice was in football when their current stadium was built (by the city of Houston) in 1950.  They were replacing an older stadium from 1913.  Rice had just won the SWC in 1949, and previously in 1934, 1937, and 1946.  They were a football power in Texas and won the SWC again in their new stadium in 1953 and 1957.  Plus they were the only game in town, no pro football and UH had just started a program in 1946 but were in the LSC.  UH also played home games there until 1964.

 

Yes, that's all true. Those days were decades ago, and now their stadium looks cavernous for what they pull in. What I'm saying is that large capacity did nothing for them and I'm confused as to why some are stuck on the 10k seating number. 

[Green Otaku]

1 minute ago, UNTFan23 said:

Athletics Center is out of room. In many cases offices have two people. Weight room is undersized given the teams it serves.

But we can make it work right? It's the same argument as the Pit. It's just a matter of how long do you want to stretch it out for. I know someone has a pic of the weight room the basketball team uses and probably other areas to get a glimpse at other parts of the Pit that we don't usually see. I love the venue, but we are going to come up with this question more and more as more years pass. 

[Cooke County Kid]

When is the last time Rice Stadium was at 80% capacity or even 60% capacity.  The SP has done both "recently".

[UNTFan23]

22 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

But we can make it work right? It's the same argument as the Pit. It's just a matter of how long do you want to stretch it out for. I know someone has a pic of the weight room the basketball team uses and probably other areas to get a glimpse at other parts of the Pit that we don't usually see. I love the venue, but we are going to come up with this question more and more as more years pass. 

You can make almost anything work if you want to. At some point it trickles down to things like recruiting, our ability to be competitive, and coach/staff retention though, so you have to weigh those pros and cons.

Edited January 25, 2023 by UNTFan23

[wardly]

33 minutes ago, Cooke County Kid said:

When is the last time Rice Stadium was at 80% capacity or even 60% capacity.  The SP has done both "recently".

Define "recently". We have averaged only about 4,000 fans per game with winning teams the past few years. I would like for us to build a new women's soft ball park where our other dedicated athletic facilities are and use their old park and surrounding area for football game parking.

[Cooke County Kid]

59 minutes ago, wardly said:

Define "recently". We have averaged only about 4,000 fans per game with winning teams the past few years. I would like for us to build a new women's soft ball park where our other dedicated athletic facilities are and use their old park and surrounding area for football game parking.

That is why I put it in "" the list shows several games that had over 6,000 and that is 60%. You are correct about other program needs.  I want money for Baseball 

[CMJ]

Hell, just last season we had 8500 at one game.

[greenminer]

2 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

But we can make it work right? It's the same argument as the Pit.

Making not enough space work is definitely not  the same as making too much space work.

Hard to truly make a call on the arena situation without specific number$ in front of us.

Maybe there are firms/surveys in place that can look at how much money we bring to the table, calculate risk/reward on the new arena, and inform the AD to make a healthy decision.

Edited January 24, 2023 by greenminer

[NT80]

3 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

 

Yes, that's all true. Those days were decades ago, and now their stadium looks cavernous for what they pull in. What I'm saying is that large capacity did nothing for them and I'm confused as to why some are stuck on the 10k seating number. 

Yes, Rice's stadium is a reminder of it's past glory, but greatly over-sized for where they are now as a program.  

It's official capacity now is 47,000 after endzone seats were removed.

Here is an article from 2009 suggesting they reduce it's capacity further to 30-35K.  

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/282408-fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-3-rice-university

Here is what it looked like FULL for the Super Bowl in 1974...

[NT80]

3 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

But we can make it work right? It's the same argument as the Pit. It's just a matter of how long do you want to stretch it out for. I know someone has a pic of the weight room the basketball team uses and probably other areas to get a glimpse at other parts of the Pit that we don't usually see. I love the venue, but we are going to come up with this question more and more as more years pass. 

We used to have Mean Green Club pre-game meals and gatherings in the bowels under the SuperPit when RV was AD.   It was like a step back in time going down there, but very cool to see.  Not as bad as under Fouts at all.  

[Green Otaku]

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

Making not enough space work is definitely not  the same as making too much space work.

Hard to truly make a call on the arena situation without specific number$ in front of us.

Maybe there are firms/surveys in place that can look at how much money we bring to the table, calculate risk/reward on the new arena, and inform the AD to make a healthy decision.

We all know the Pit is plenty big capacity wise, I was talking about there not being enough room to have all of the team amenities in 1 place. 

It's really just a matter of time, it's a 50 year old building that hasn't had a major renovation in its history. I guessed it had about a decade before the school really has to start looking at what to do, bringing its age to 60. That's a pretty long time for a sports facility. 

[GrandGreen]

8 hours ago, NT80 said:

As for UTA, they had no prior basketball arena, and needed one badly.  They played on the literal "stage" at Texas Hall, more like an opera house than an arena, with the concert pit just off the side edge of the court...talk about dangerous!  Their arena also serves the university as a graduation and concert venue.  The school still underfunds athletics and has little fan support. It was said when UTA eliminated football that they would put money into becoming a basketball power...lol, not so much.  In fact the SBC kicked them out because of no football and the MVC didn't want them so they were forced into the far-flung WAC. 

For us, I see a new arena as similar to our Fouts situation, except the university controls use of the SuperPit, not Athletics.  A new venue would be controlled by Athletics.  It would combine a new court with new locker rooms, practice facilities, plus a new volleyball arena.  Suites and loge boxes would add revenue.  Modern lighting, signage, and concessions.  But it would involve a loss of seating, perhaps on purpose to make it more intimate at games?

I do love the SuperPit and it shouldn't be discarded until we actually need a new venue.

Not sure why you are explaining why UTA needed a new arena, I said that to contrast their situation versus NT.

The control of the SPit is a tired argument that amounts to nothing.   Do you not think the President of the school can override the AD on the use of the SPit if it came to that no matter what the legal status? 

The only known issue is when NT hosted a robotics exhibition ages ago and moved a women's basketball game that may have drawn a crowd of 300 at either place.  

As for as improvements in a facility for basketball, sure but is it worth tens of millions for a few bells and whistles that are not going to significantly improve the product or the support.  

We agree actually on your last statement: the issue is what constitutes need versus wants. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by GrandGreen

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, Green Otaku said:

We all know the Pit is plenty big capacity wise, I was talking about there not being enough room to have all of the team amenities in 1 place. 

It's really just a matter of time, it's a 50 year old building that hasn't had a major renovation in its history. I guessed it had about a decade before the school really has to start looking at what to do, bringing its age to 60. That's a pretty long time for a sports facility. 

Oh I def think a new Super Pit would be beneficial.

If you think about it, this is an amazing discussion to have.  We are cleaning up a ton of loose ends in our program.  And it excites me to think ti will happen in my lifetime.

[NT80]

5 hours ago, wardly said:

Define "recently". We have averaged only about 4,000 fans per game with winning teams the past few years. I would like for us to build a new women's soft ball park where our other dedicated athletic facilities are and use their old park and surrounding area for football game parking.

The existing softball stadium is already there!  They will be expanding and improving it, plus adding football tailgate parking areas next door to it....all on the masterplan video...

[NT80]

38 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Oh I def think a new Super Pit would be beneficial.

If you think about it, this is an amazing discussion to have.  We are cleaning up a ton of loose ends in our program.  And it excites me to think ti will happen in my lifetime.

Yes, it was a great vision Dr. Pohl and RV had.  To take the former NT golf course land and dedicate it to Athletic facility use.  Most Universities never have such an opportunity to rebuild and modernize their whole program within 20 years.

[Andrew]

5 hours ago, NT80 said:

We used to have Mean Green Club pre-game meals and gatherings in the bowels under the SuperPit when RV was AD.   It was like a step back in time going down there, but very cool to see.  Not as bad as under Fouts at all.  

I miss this! Why do they not do this anymore….

[NT80]

5 hours ago, Andrew said:

I miss this! Why do they not do this anymore….

Because Wren got rid of the Mean Green Club.  He changed it to the MGSF.  Some say it had to do with tax deductions, I say bull!   Other schools have Athletic donation groups using school nicknames; ie Mustang Club, Husker N Club, Razorback Club, Aggie Club, and some without the "SF" , Longhorn Foundation, Light the Tower.... 

[untphd]

7 hours ago, Andrew said:

I miss this! Why do they not do this anymore….

I miss it as well. I got Norm Hitzges' autograph one night in there. Had some great times.

[wardly]

22 hours ago, CMJ said:

Hell, just last season we had 8500 at one game.

Against whom,when,where, how?

[keith]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:00 PM, Green Otaku said:

?? It's an artist rendering from the athletic master plan. It gives an idea of what the dept. wants to do. 

We've never needed those extra 2k-3k seats. Have we ever even been close to selling out the Pit? We are in one of the best eras of UNT basketball and we struggle to look even half full. An arena with better sight-lines, closer seating, better lighting, luxury boxes, better training/locker rooms, more concessions, etc. It'd say that's a good trade off. The small drop in capacity is heavily outweighed by a purpose built tailored facility. 

We had 8,522 for a regular season C-USA game last year, so at 6,000 to 7,000 we would have turned away 1,522 to 2,522 fans/potential season ticket holders.