Fan support

[NorthTexasWeLove]

5 hours ago, smoothfresh said:

Yeah you’re right because those 20,000 empty seats at Apogee are getting a lot of value and those 5,000 empty seats at the Super Pit are to.   Giving kids under 18 free tickets doesn’t devalue anything 

[greenminer]

9 hours ago, smoothfresh said:

Yeah you’re right because those 20,000 empty seats at Apogee are getting a lot of value and those 5,000 empty seats at the Super Pit are to.   Giving kids under 18 free tickets doesn’t devalue anything 

We're all interested in filling those seats, and anyone in marketing/sales will tell you the psychology behind perceived value and results.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/perceived-value.asp#:~:text=What Is Perceived Value%3F,in comparison with its peers.

Historically, when ultra-cheap "value" deals have worked, and they have (Minor League Baseball comes to mind), it's sustainable because the team they come to see is WINNING.  The experience is FUN.  Maybe in some markets where there is no other entertainment option you can get away with mediocrity on the field.  We do not have that luxury.  If they aren't having fun supporting a fun winning team, no amount of gimmicky entertainment or 0.25 hot dogs are going to keep them around long term.  It'd be lipstick on a pig and they'd go off to one million other options they have in DFW.

This isn't 1950 where families are grateful to go to the local high school games and support their community.  On a societal level, today's potential customer carries a ton of entitlement with them.

I had low rates in my business for years and struggled to stay afloat.  When I finally raised my rates and people started coming, the explanation given to me is that people are not interested in the cheapest experience.  They want to pay for something knowing they will get quality.

[MrAlien]

The over all experience at an UNT home football game is just poor... and I am not talking about the on field performance.  Attending a football game is more of a hassle then an enjoyment, not one of my UNT friends has any interest in attending a game.  However my friends and I will meet up at Twin Peaks and watch the game, while running up a food and drinks tab that is probably as much if not more then we would spend going to a game.  

[Pavlovs Eagle]

5 hours ago, MrAlien said:

However my friends and I will meet up at Twin Peaks and watch the game, while running up a food and drinks tab that is probably as much if not more then we would spend going to a game.  

I'm impressed you can find a Twin Peaks or any sports bar that will bother to have a UNT game on Saturday during college football season. Maybe things are looking up! 

[ExADofficeIntern]

On 1/8/2023 at 12:33 AM, smoothfresh said:

A kid (or his/her parent)under the age of 18 should not have to pay a dime to attend any UNT sporting event.  

I’d like to see The students be allowed to roll tickets from basketballs games that they do not attend to games they can/would attend with family and rollover tickets could be used… get butte in the seats and make some damn money off the popcorn, etc

On 1/7/2023 at 4:16 PM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Of course it does. But collegiate athletic departments doing whatever the hell they want with 0 accountability is one of the great mysteries of the world. 

NS needs to be the one holding the AD to a standard, not just fans. We saw how fans did not come out (among over reasons) to this year bowl game, and attendance this year as well. 

On 1/8/2023 at 9:53 AM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Yeah, let's devalue the product even more. Awesome idea

Students/parents already pay more than most people on this board who openly say we need more money into the program

[ExADofficeIntern]

6 hours ago, greenminer said:

We're all interested in filling those seats, and anyone in marketing/sales will tell you the psychology behind perceived value and results.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/perceived-value.asp#:~:text=What Is Perceived Value%3F,in comparison with its peers.

Historically, when ultra-cheap "value" deals have worked, and they have (Minor League Baseball comes to mind), it's sustainable because the team they come to see is WINNING.  The experience is FUN.  Maybe in some markets where there is no other entertainment option you can get away with mediocrity on the field.  We do not have that luxury.  If they aren't having fun supporting a fun winning team, no amount of gimmicky entertainment or 0.25 hot dogs are going to keep them around long term.  It'd be lipstick on a pig and they'd go off to one million other options they have in DFW.

This isn't 1950 where families are grateful to go to the local high school games and support their community.  On a societal level, today's potential customer carries a ton of entitlement with them.

I had low rates in my business for years and struggled to stay afloat.  When I finally raised my rates and people started coming, the explanation given to me is that people are not interested in the cheapest experience.  They want to pay for something knowing they will get quality.

So if we charge ticket prices like Bama, Ohio State, etc you would buy more tickets because of the quality of the price?
 

if so I got some filtered water in bottles that are a steal of a price at 5,000 per bottle, it’s water from on the moon so it’s doesn’t have any micro-plastics or anything. 
 

With that being said, the issue with UNT is its location.. it’s a 30-45 minute drive (one way) to campus, for you to watch a crap football team, or a basketball team that is good but that struggles to get to 50 points. Holy hell, the MTSU game the 2 teams went like 7-8 minutes with no one scoring, I thought I was watching MBB not WBB.. Normal Fans want something exciting if they are going to invest a 1-2 Hr drive plus 3 hours of crap football and another 50-60 bucks in tickets, parking, food… the way you make UNT sports popular is winning and exciting, and you start fostering that with current students. Find ways to bring the dorms/greeks into games, give them individual sections and best attended gets X provided by the school… 

[ExADofficeIntern]

5 hours ago, MrAlien said:

The over all experience at an UNT home football game is just poor... and I am not talking about the on field performance.  Attending a football game is more of a hassle then an enjoyment, not one of my UNT friends has any interest in attending a game.  However my friends and I will meet up at Twin Peaks and watch the game, while running up a food and drinks tab that is probably as much if not more then we would spend going to a game.  

Totally agree, it’s not worth the 1-2hr round trip drive then the 50-60 in tickets, parking, and maybe food at the game on the low end… if I want to spend 50-60, you can do that twin peaks, get a better view…

[greenminer]

10 minutes ago, ExADofficeIntern said:

So if we charge ticket prices like Bama, Ohio State, etc you would buy more tickets because of the quality of the price?

We are not there yet.  I already said this further up the thread.  Here is a bit from the link I posted above:

Luxury goods, however, carry the perception of value to another level with the addition of prestige. The highest value of luxury goods is not associated with their utility but with the prestige that owning and using it entails. The perceived value of a Rolex watch is not based on its functionality but with its image as a mark of personal success and refined taste.

-source

On 1/8/2023 at 1:10 PM, greenminer said:

On the other end of the spectrum, the side we are not yet on, you can up-charge beyond market value to create an illusion of higher value.  Again, we are not in a position to do that.  Not yet, anyways.

 

Quote

if so I got some filtered water in bottles that are a steal of a price at 5,000 per bottle, it’s water from on the moon so it’s doesn’t have any micro-plastics or anything. 

These over-the-top, take-logic-to-extremes counterpoints do not work and you know it.

Edited January 9, 2023 by greenminer

[ExADofficeIntern]

4 minutes ago, greenminer said:

We are not there yet.  I already said this further up the thread.  Here is a bit from the link I posted above:

Luxury goods, however, carry the perception of value to another level with the addition of prestige. The highest value of luxury goods is not associated with their utility but with the prestige that owning and using it entails. The perceived value of a Rolex watch is not based on its functionality but with its image as a mark of personal success and refined taste.

-source

These over-the-top, take-logic-to-extremes counterpoints do not work and you know it.

The idea that a UNT sports event is anything close to a Rolex or a luxury good is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen. 
 

This board questions why “normal” fans/alumni do not go to games because the vast majority of us doing that think everyone needs to see what we see, without truly evaluating what other people have going on. 
 

the drive sucks to and from Denton, 30-45 minutes if not more, a crap product, spending even more once in the event to see crap product isn’t not a “luxury hood”.  Me spending $50-60 on tickets, parking, and food plus 6 hours of my life spent in a car/watching crap football or a 3 hr 40-44 basketball game isn’t worth when I’m just going to be on my phone because we can’t make anything outside of a dunk or a free throw… alumni in their 20-30s are not going to drop kids off at their parents or get a sitter to go to a shit UNT game either, when they can do something much more enjoyable and closer to home. 
———————————————————

the over the top remarks just shows that people will do what is trendy and what gives them clout/status and what word of mouth can do for business.. paying prices like Bama doesn’t mean we are on Bama level..  just like how that jacked up the price of Payless shoes in a unnamed store in LA, people were thinking they were so flashy when it was still the same Payless shoes. Putting an actually good and enjoyable product will draw in fans
 

if you want to nickel and dime fans that already has poor attendance, you won’t get more fans.. you will get less

[NorthTexasWeLove]

39 minutes ago, ExADofficeIntern said:

I’d like to see The students be allowed to roll tickets from basketballs games that they do not attend to games they can/would attend with family and rollover tickets could be used… get butte in the seats and make some damn money off the popcorn, etc

NS needs to be the one holding the AD to a standard, not just fans. We saw how fans did not come out (among over reasons) to this year bowl game, and attendance this year as well. 

Students/parents already pay more than most people on this board who openly say we need more money into the program

And students don't pay a dime outside of their tuition. As we all did.

The poster suggested anyone under 18 and their parents should get in free to everything. 

[Mike Jackson]

8 hours ago, greenminer said:

If they aren't having fun supporting a fun winning team, no amount of gimmicky entertainment or 0.25 hot dogs are going to keep them around long term.  It'd be lipstick on a pig and they'd go off to one million other options they have in DFW.

I don't agree with everything in this post but this one can't be challenged for it's accuracy.    In the past 27 years the Mean Green has not posted back to back Bowl wins, no 10 win seasons,  only 4 seasons with 9 wins.  It the reason I only have one season ticket.  The only time you can consistently give one of your spare tickets away is in the Club Seats.   You could put a retractable dome on the stadium and once the novelty wears out attendance will be down to 65% capacity if the program isn't winning.

[Big Z]

Change the culture of the town especially the square.

[Salsa_Verde]

33 minutes ago, Big Z said:

Change the culture of the town especially the square.

Why? 

[shaft]

A couple of reasons attendance is down that no one is discussing.

What time are games?  The inconsistent kickoff times impact the game day experience.   

Who are we playing and do we have a reasonable chance to be competitive with them?  Playing nobody teams like Texas Southern and HBU doesn't draw a crowd.

Where can we park?  There's a half empty lot next to the wing, but we're telling people to go park and haul their tailgating gear over the stupid bridge and back.  Is there cash parking at the stadium?  Is there any signage letting anyone know that?

What is there do besides the game?  The layout and lack of signage leaves the new visitor guessing.  Is there a cover charge to get into this tailgate with the ropes around it?  Can I go into the alumni building or is there some membership thing?  Do I need tickets or a wristband for the kids zone.

How much are walk up tickets?  They run a lot of great promotions, but if you decide to wait and see what the weather is before you bring the family out to a game, you have to pay way to much for walk up tickets, especially for kids.

Edited January 10, 2023 by shaft
spelling

[Big Z]

25 minutes ago, Salsa_Verde said:

Why? 

Too many things to list, but it was sad when we had an away game and some bars didn’t even have the game on…let alone didn’t know we even had a game that day. 

[Mike Jackson]

14 hours ago, shaft said:

 

Where can we park?  There's a half empty lot next to the wing, but we're telling people to go park and haul their tailgating gear over the stupid bridge and back.  Is there cash parking at the stadium?  Is there any signage letting anyone know that?

What is there do besides the game?  The layout and lack of signage leaves the new visitor guessing.  Is there a cover charge to get into this tailgate with the ropes around it?  Can I go into the alumni building or is there some membership thing?  Do I need tickets or a wristband for the kids zone.

How much are walk up tickets?  They run a lot of great promotions, but if you decide to wait and see what the weather is before you bring the family out to a game, you have to pay way to much for walk up tickets, especially for kids.

Some valid criticisms here but in the big picture minor.   I will address kickoff times because it seem that most people don't know those are all but dictated by TV contract.  It is only when we are playing FCS team that TV doesn't care about that we have the most freedom picking a kickoff time.  

 

14 hours ago, shaft said:

Who are we playing and do we have a reasonable chance to be competitive with them?  Playing nobody teams like Texas Southern and HBU doesn't draw a crowd.

Now here is the catch-22.  This program is well under 0.500 vs FBS competition overall.  And while I haven't crunched the numbers I assume we are under 0.500 against FBS competition at home also.

But here is the real deal: This program spits the bit historically when challenged over the last 50 plus years.   You can contrast what TCU did when they were left out of the Big 12 verses what UNT did when the SWC finalized their decision not to add UNT in the late 70s.  UNT took a extra step down to FCS and didn't perform well at that level.  TCU fought and clawed their way to higher levels.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Mike Jackson

[NorthTexasWeLove]

10 hours ago, Salsa_Verde said:

Why? 

Because it's not a culture that supports athletics. Guys with painted nails and face tattoos playing their guitars while sitting crisscross apple sauce all the while asking me for my restaurant leftovers is bad culture. Some people would call that simply culture. But those people are dumb. I call them eyesores and Denton is rapidly growing with them. Rapidly. 

We have too many liberal arts students in a liberal arts city. Again, NS is trying to inhibit change. But it's a strong rip tide. 

 

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

15 hours ago, shaft said:

A couple of reasons attendance is down that no one is discussing.

What time are games?  The inconsistent kickoff times impact the game day experience.   

Who are we playing and do we have a reasonable chance to be competitive with them?  Playing nobody teams like Texas Southern and HBU doesn't draw a crowd.

Where can we park?  There's a half empty lot next to the wing, but we're telling people to go park and haul their tailgating gear over the stupid bridge and back.  Is there cash parking at the stadium?  Is there any signage letting anyone know that?

What is there do besides the game?  The layout and lack of signage leaves the new visitor guessing.  Is there a cover charge to get into this tailgate with the ropes around it?  Can I go into the alumni building or is there some membership thing?  Do I need tickets or a wristband for the kids zone.

How much are walk up tickets?  They run a lot of great promotions, but if you decide to wait and see what the weather is before you bring the family out to a game, you have to pay way to much for walk up tickets, especially for kids.

•Conference controls kickoff times

• you’re right, but it won’t matter if we play the best of the best, nobody wants to see another big game loss. That’s why.

•100% agree and the grass lot (that should be paved by now considering it’s been 6 years since the master plan) is so inaccessible half of the time, when it could be a great place to park for a bit cheaper than Blue Lot.

•I’m split on this topic because the main point is the Football game being played, but the lack of other activities pre and during game is always a problem. The bar setup last year under the wing was a good idea, but lack of execution.

•varies on where you sit and how good the team is. Our tickets are extremely cheap compared to most CFB programs.

[GRN-WHT]

15 hours ago, shaft said:

A couple of reasons attendance is down that no one is discussing.

What time are games?  The inconsistent kickoff times impact the game day experience.  

Michigan had 5 noon kickoff times at home. Ohio State had 4. Want me to keep going?

Name one school that has consistent, favorable kickoff times, I'll wait.

The people bitching about kickoff times are going to have a rude awakening in the AAC when we won't know kickoff times until a week before and Thursday and Friday nights are in play.

[MrAlien]

19 hours ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

I'm impressed you can find a Twin Peaks or any sports bar that will bother to have a UNT game on Saturday during college football season. Maybe things are looking up! 

Most sports bars have ESPN+ now all you have to do is ask them to put it on

 

Honestly its not about winning, or driving the extra 10 min to reach the stadium from Twin Peaks, or the money... its the Hassle of dealing of dealing with the parking mess, the payment process for tickets and parking.  The pregame vibe is just boring.   

[UNTLifer]

9 minutes ago, MrAlien said:

The pregame vibe is just boring.   

You should acquaint yourself with Tony's balls.

[greenminer]

21 hours ago, ExADofficeIntern said:

The idea that a UNT sports event is anything close to a Rolex or a luxury good is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen. 
 

This board questions why “normal” fans/alumni do not go to games because the vast majority of us doing that think everyone needs to see what we see, without truly evaluating what other people have going on. 
 

the drive sucks to and from Denton, 30-45 minutes if not more, a crap product, spending even more once in the event to see crap product isn’t not a “luxury hood”.  Me spending $50-60 on tickets, parking, and food plus 6 hours of my life spent in a car/watching crap football or a 3 hr 40-44 basketball game isn’t worth when I’m just going to be on my phone because we can’t make anything outside of a dunk or a free throw… alumni in their 20-30s are not going to drop kids off at their parents or get a sitter to go to a shit UNT game either, when they can do something much more enjoyable and closer to home. 
———————————————————

the over the top remarks just shows that people will do what is trendy and what gives them clout/status and what word of mouth can do for business.. paying prices like Bama doesn’t mean we are on Bama level..  just like how that jacked up the price of Payless shoes in a unnamed store in LA, people were thinking they were so flashy when it was still the same Payless shoes. Putting an actually good and enjoyable product will draw in fans
 

if you want to nickel and dime fans that already has poor attendance, you won’t get more fans.. you will get less

I feel like we are talking about different things, so I'm not even sure you are addressing me.  A few things I need to establish:

1) We are def not 'bama.  Def not SEC.  I have said - twice now - that we are not in any position to up charge.
2) I am not suggesting nickle and diming anyone. I am responding to the OP that we should allow everyone 18 and under for free.  I sam saying that kind of deal is not sustainable.

I don't think we should raise prices at all right now.  I think the root of our problem is on the field.  Continue to invest/build the quality of the product.  Secondarily, make the experience off the field more fun.  Emphasis traditions.  Have fun with game-day promos/food deals.  Etc.

...stop trying to put lipstick on the pig.  Don't raise prices, but don't be desperate on hand out freebies for everyone under 19.  Make the product good, and make it so that people trust it is good.

Crowds will come.  Brand value will go up.  Then we can talk about raising prices.

[MrAlien]

I wouldnt raise prices, if anything I would cut prices, and free parking... make it as easy as possible to come to a game, and start to build up a game day culture. 

[Salsa_Verde]

On 1/9/2023 at 10:30 PM, Big Z said:

Too many things to list, but it was sad when we had an away game and some bars didn’t even have the game on…let alone didn’t know we even had a game that day. 

Well…the crappy CUSA media rights doesn’t help. Eastside always has the game on. Denton county is a big county with alums from all over. North Texas can’t capture market share if they’re not consistently winning. Business owners want to make money they’re not a charity. 

[Salsa_Verde]

14 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Because it's not a culture that supports athletics. Guys with painted nails and face tattoos playing their guitars while sitting crisscross apple sauce all the while asking me for my restaurant leftovers is bad culture. Some people would call that simply culture. But those people are dumb. I call them eyesores and Denton is rapidly growing with them. Rapidly. 

We have too many liberal arts students in a liberal arts city. Again, NS is trying to inhibit change. But it's a strong rip tide. 

 

Interesting. Well you can’t tell me Austin has a better sports culture, it’s a vastly more liberal city than Denton. Bottom line, like I always say, North Texas doesn’t win enough and doesn’t capture the attention of a lot of people. Until they do “it is what it is”