Will we have the patience....

[keith]

For a hypothetical, let's say Coach Morris is able to replicate here that he was able to accomplish at UIW and over the next three seasons goes:

6-5

5-7

6-6 (he actually went 3-3 in the Covid year, I've given him the 12-game .500 record)

Will we be patient enough to give him a 4th year to see what he does?

[El Paso Eagle]

Hopefully he can do it sooner, but yes. For the past couple of years the majority have talked about how this team is not ready to compete in the American. He will need time to get the roster up to where we need it.

[MGNation92]

You failed to mention he won the southland twice in those 4 years, including the 6-5 year.

If he goes 7-5 but he's 7-1 in conference? Big difference and a good chance he’s in the conference championship

[NorthTexasWeLove]

[Venson]

The problem SL ran into is that he went 5-8 his first year after inheriting a one win team. People had patience at that point. Then he rolls off back to back 9 win seasons and people miraculously believed we had arrived. He won too soon too fast instead of a more gradual rise. Once that happened, anything less was considered a failure by many and they were already calling for his head. Had his rise been more gradual, people would have had more patience. If Morris wins 9 games by year two, I think people will not accept anything less than that afterwards. Sometimes winning too fast hurts you. Not that I don't want him to win fast, it just changes people's expectations and maybe unrealistically.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 minute ago, Venson said:

The problem SL ran into is that he went 5-8 his first year after inheriting a one win team. People had patience at that point. Then he rolls off back to back 9 win seasons and people miraculously believed we had arrived. He won too soon too fast instead of a more gradual rise. Once that happened, anything less was considered a failure by many and they were already calling for his head. Had his rise been more gradual, people would have had more patience. If Morris wins 9 games by year two, I think people will not accept anything less than that afterwards. Sometimes winning too fast hurts you. Not that I don't want him to win fast, it just changes people's expectations and maybe unrealistically.

Given the way college athletics is setup, patience has shrunk tremendously. There is no more a thing of a 4 or 5 year "plan". Given these said rules, better go get your players and you better go get them fast. Because if you don't get them then someone else will. 

With that said, I always like to see a team with 0 quit in year 1. Visible and quantifiable results in year 2. In year 3, you better be firing on all cylinders. I didn't create the rules, the NCAA did. Coaches best start using them to their advantage. 

[meangreenbob]

53 minutes ago, keith said:

For a hypothetical, let's say Coach Morris is able to replicate here that he was able to accomplish at UIW and over the next three seasons goes:

6-5

5-7

6-6 (he actually went 3-3 in the Covid year, I've given him the 12-game .500 record)

Will we be patient enough to give him a 4th year to see what he does?

We don’t have the time. We already spent or actually wasted the time we had. 

If the Troy coach can go 13-2 his first year than Morris will have to do the same. The Littrell experiment ate up all the time we had. 
 

Time is of the essence. 
 

[Venson]

3 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Given the way college athletics is setup, patience has shrunk tremendously. There is no more a thing of a 4 or 5 year "plan". Given these said rules, better go get your players and you better go get them fast. Because if you don't get them then someone else will. 

With that said, I always like to see a team with 0 quit in year 1. Visible and quantifiable results in year 2. In year 3, you better be firing on all cylinders. I didn't create the rules, the NCAA did. Coaches best start using them to their advantage. 

You are right. The NCAA created this mess and has no answer to fix it.

[Wag Tag]

11 minutes ago, Venson said:

The problem SL ran into is that he went 5-8 his first year after inheriting a one win team. People had patience at that point. Then he rolls off back to back 9 win seasons and people miraculously believed we had arrived. He won too soon too fast instead of a more gradual rise. Once that happened, anything less was considered a failure by many and they were already calling for his head. Had his rise been more gradual, people would have had more patience. If Morris wins 9 games by year two, I think people will not accept anything less than that afterwards. Sometimes winning too fast hurts you. Not that I don't want him to win fast, it just changes people's expectations and maybe unrealistically.

Great point. Burning Mason’s redshirt was a big mistake and his last year of eligibility was a disaster! 

[MeanGreenTexan]

No.  
He’s taking over a 7-6 team with ballers everywhere but QB, which (according to himself) is his specialty, and DB.   Half of C-USA is coming with us, and we have a winnable schedule next season.

If 3 straight years of .500 football is acceptable, why did we get rid of Littrell?

[MrAlien]

AAC is a much better conference, Morris is already getting a late start at building the staff and adding recruits, 2023 (2-3 wins) will be a throw away season, 2024 (4-5 wins) will be the season to turn things around, and 2025 (5-6 wins) we might make a run at a bowl again. 

[keith]

44 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

You failed to mention he won the southland twice in those 4 years, including the 6-5 year.

If he goes 7-5 but he's 7-1 in conference? Big difference and a good chance he’s in the conference championship

I was only talking about his first 3 years so it's hard to fail to mention what happened in year 4.  He won the conference in his 4th year.  In the first year he tied for first, but I'm not sure how the Southland determined that as Nicholls played one more conference game and finished 7-2 while UIW finished 6-2 and lost the head-to-head matchup with Nicholls.  I'd put an * on that 2018 conference championship.  That year UIW had wins over SFA, ACU, Southeastern La, McNeese, Sam Houston and Central Arkansas.  Losses against Lamar and Nicholls.  UIW lost all of its OOC games and "bowl" (playoff) game in 2018.  Sounds eerily familiar.

[keith]

8 minutes ago, MrAlien said:

AAC is a much better conference, Morris is already getting a late start at building the staff and adding recruits, 2023 (2-3 wins) will be a throw away season, 2024 (4-5 wins) will be the season to turn things around, and 2025 (5-6 wins) we might make a run at a bowl again. 

Six other teams in the AAC will be starting 2023 with new head coaches.  It's not like we're alone in this regard.

[MGNation92]

7 minutes ago, keith said:

I was only talking about his first 3 years so it's hard to fail to mention what happened in year 4.  He won the conference in his 4th year.  In the first year he tied for first, but I'm not sure how the Southland determined that as Nicholls played one more conference game and finished 7-2 while UIW finished 6-2 and lost the head-to-head matchup with Nicholls.  I'd put an * on that 2018 conference championship.  That year UIW had wins over SFA, ACU, Southeastern La, McNeese, Sam Houston and Central Arkansas.  Losses against Lamar and Nicholls.  UIW lost all of its OOC games and "bowl" (playoff) game in 2018.  Sounds eerily familiar.

I agree. He still needs to prove himself but he’s shown he can win, rebuild, and win again. Seth could never rebuild after 2018, and especially after Mason left. 

Morris went from Jon Copeland, who was pretty good in his own right, to Ward. History goes to show if you have the right QB it usually makes everything look better. We just need some semblance of defense. Something he definitely didn’t have as an OC at Tech with Mahomes.

[MrAlien]

18 minutes ago, keith said:

Six other teams in the AAC will be starting 2023 with new head coaches.  It's not like we're alone in this regard.

Its not just the coach, its the entire staff, and recruiting.  UNT has not been a strong recruiter compared to other schools in the AAC, and its going to take a season or two to turn that trend around. 

[outoftown]

43 minutes ago, keith said:

Six other teams in the AAC will be starting 2023 with new head coaches.  It's not like we're alone in this regard.

Yes. And other than Navy, they were all faster than NT at replacing their coach and preparing for the next season and are all ahead at staff building. And since navy promoted from within, I assume that even navy has more coaches on board for next season than NT.

Edited December 20, 2022 by outoftown

[keith]

16 minutes ago, outoftown said:

Yes. And other than Navy, they were all faster than NT at replacing their coach and preparing for the next season and are all ahead at staff building. And since navy promoted from within, I assume that even navy has more coaches on board for next season than NT.

That darn 10-day rule is keeping us down!  

Here's the current job postings for Football...

https://jobs.untsystem.edu/postings/search?utf8=✓&query=football&query_v0_posted_at_date=month&query_position_type_id[]=2&1703[]=1&query_organizational_tier_1_id[]=2018&225=&commit=Search

[CaribbeanGreen]

With our roster and record where it is, and with the way the portal has changed the game, you need positive signs of success by year two or odds are you’ve hired the wrong dude. Just the way it is now. 

[outoftown]

29 minutes ago, keith said:

That darn 10-day rule is keeping us down!  

Here's the current job postings for Football...

https://jobs.untsystem.edu/postings/search?utf8=✓&query=football&query_v0_posted_at_date=month&query_position_type_id[]=2&1703[]=1&query_organizational_tier_1_id[]=2018&225=&commit=Search

I like the catch-all title of "assistant coach" there, without any description of position. Can put that in and go out look for any need you have.

That said, I doubt the 10 day rule is as much of a problem as folks make it out to be.

Edited December 20, 2022 by outoftown

[TheReal_jayD]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

No.  
He’s taking over a 7-6 team with ballers everywhere but QB, which (according to himself) is his specialty, and DB.   Half of C-USA is coming with us, and we have a winnable schedule next season.

If 3 straight years of .500 football is acceptable, why did we get rid of Littrell?

AAC is different animal than CUSA. This UnT team this year would have struggled to win two games in American 

[UNTcrazy727]

35 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

AAC is different animal than CUSA. This UnT team this year would have struggled to win two games in American 

And the AAC we're joining is a different animal than the one this year. This hypothetical would be disastrous for UNT. It would put us right back to where we were with Littrell .

[MrAlien]

I doubt our 2022 roster or coaching would have been able to win a game in the AAC in 2022.  looking at the 2023 AAC slate of games, I dont see a win at all in the conference.  hopefully they can turn it around in 2-3 seasons.   

[TheReal_jayD]

22 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

And the AAC we're joining is a different animal than the one this year. This hypothetical would be disastrous for UNT. It would put us right back to where we were with Littrell .

The defending conference champs returning and 3 of top 6 teams.

[UNTcrazy727]

16 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

The defending conference champs returning and 3 of top 6 teams.

The defending champs were 2-10 last year so its a little early to suggest they're the next Cincy/UCF.

One of those top 3 you mentioned is Navy, who went an impressive 4-8. The top of the conference is being gutted. 3 of the top 5 teams from this year are gone, while the bottom 6 all return. There's no reason we should wallow around .500 for multiple years. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by UNTcrazy727

[p_phelps]

5 hours ago, keith said:

For a hypothetical, let's say Coach Morris is able to replicate here that he was able to accomplish at UIW and over the next three seasons goes:

6-5

5-7

6-6 (he actually went 3-3 in the Covid year, I've given him the 12-game .500 record)

Will we be patient enough to give him a 4th year to see what he does?

500 in the American isn't the same as cusa.  But 4 yrs of .500 we have a problem