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Gabe Brooks/David Smoak Segment About UNT Job

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MeanGreenTexan Grand Master

MeanGreenTexan

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1 minute ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

What you are saying is 100% accurate.

Also, what you are saying is 100% dated. Not dated as if it doesn't happen, but dated as in we don't need HS coaches to inform us of their top, mid-grade and low level talent. We should know names, top to bottom, and skillsets before even stepping foot in the school. 

 

I know if not organized properly it can be leg work, but every school in a ___ mile radius of UNT should be dropped in on during every recruiting period/cycle. Even if there is a player of interest or not.

Guyer - Argyle - Ryan - Braswell - LD - Denton High- Sanger/Krum - Aubrey/PP - Rock Hill/Prosper 

Go get on a name basis with a couple coaches at those places and show face with some regularity. 

Oh yes.   I'm sure Walerius & staff do.   That's the problem.    We want to get into these schools and talk to their top guys.   Walerius & Co most definitely do their homework prior to any campus visits.  They know the roster, and who's who... even down in the underclassmen ranks for the future.    So when a coach says, "Let's talk less about 4* Kid X, because Sark's visiting next week, and more about Kid Y (who's a 2*, maybe)", that's likely coming from a deep bias of NT's lack of winning.   It's something NT has to overcome, but it's not something we should placate these HS coaches for.   If they won't let us talk to Kid X for real, and only think we should be looking at Kid Y, we should politely leave.

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El Paso Eagle
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You are showing your lack of understanding, or laziness, to do a little checking. The hire, at the time was praised across the nation. The problem was there was not enough planning done for his suppor

meanJewGreen
meanJewGreen

Sorry to offend probably everyone on this board, but I steer clear when I hear something like this. People who lead with this, or “god fearing” usually are full of s*** . We’re not liberty. 

BillySee58
BillySee58

Here’s how this seems to go with UNT coaches recruiting DFW, especially Denton County: New UNT Coach: “Alright, time to build relationships with these local coaches at these great programs and ge

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NorthTexasWeLove Grand Master

NorthTexasWeLove

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1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Oh yes.   I'm sure Walerius & staff do.   That's the problem.    We want to get into these schools and talk to their top guys.   Walerius & Co most definitely do their homework prior to any campus visits.  They know the roster, and who's who... even down in the underclassmen ranks for the future.    So when a coach says, "Let's talk less about 4* Kid X, because Sark's visiting next week, and more about Kid Y (who's a 2*, maybe)", that's likely coming from a deep bias of NT's lack of winning.   It's something NT has to overcome, but it's not something we should placate these HS coaches for.   If they won't let us talk to Kid X for real, and only think we should be looking at Kid Y, we should politely leave.

I'm dabbin up coach and appreciating his input and I'm talking to players he's pigeon holing my way all the while explaining to him I have me a job to do and I'm here to do the full job. 

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BillySee58 Grand Master

BillySee58

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48 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

What you are saying is 100% accurate.

Also, what you are saying is 100% dated. Not dated as if it doesn't happen, but dated as in we don't need HS coaches to inform us of their top, mid-grade and low level talent. We should know names, top to bottom, and skillsets before even stepping foot in the school. 

 

I know if not organized properly it can be leg work, but every school in a ___ mile radius of UNT should be dropped in on during every recruiting period/cycle. Even if there is a player of interest or not.

Guyer - Argyle - Ryan - Braswell - LD - Denton High- Sanger/Krum - Aubrey/PP - Rock Hill/Prosper 

Go get on a name basis with a couple coaches at those places and show face with some regularity. 

We do. Knowing the names of the kids isn’t the issue. Going into the schools and being steered away from the kids we really want and towards the kids we don’t is the issue. 

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BillySee58 Grand Master

BillySee58

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45 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Oh yes.   I'm sure Walerius & staff do.   That's the problem.    We want to get into these schools and talk to their top guys.   Walerius & Co most definitely do their homework prior to any campus visits.  They know the roster, and who's who... even down in the underclassmen ranks for the future.    So when a coach says, "Let's talk less about 4* Kid X, because Sark's visiting next week, and more about Kid Y (who's a 2*, maybe)", that's likely coming from a deep bias of NT's lack of winning.   It's something NT has to overcome, but it's not something we should placate these HS coaches for.   If they won't let us talk to Kid X for real, and only think we should be looking at Kid Y, we should politely leave.

Exactly. And this has been the experience in DFW for the last two coaching staffs to the point where their reputation from many local coaches is soured by the end of their tenure. May very well happen to the next coach until we really get our perception to change.

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BillySee58 Grand Master

BillySee58

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10 hours ago, meangreanmick said:

All very fair points. 

When  I  talking to him its usually about true D1 kids.  For example, last season they had a running back that ended up in P5 pretty far away  but before that happened they tried to get UNT to talk to him - his family doesn’t have alot of money are very close proximity to Denton - those are more of the situations I’m talking about.   I think UNTs response was, we are set at RB.   But I sat with him and watched that kid as a freshman playing a major role this season - so you would think we could make a spot for that kind of talent.

It may very well have hurt our coaches to pass up that player. We have 4 sophomore scholarship running backs who all get carries when healthy, and two freshmen scholarship running backs as well. We had our 2022 high school RB spot filled back in April 2021, and that seemed to end our RB recruiting for the class as I don’t think any offers were extended after that.

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greenminer Grand Master

greenminer

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27 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

We do. Knowing the names of the kids isn’t the issue. Going into the schools and being steered away from the kids we really want and towards the kids we don’t is the issue. 

Still wrapping my mind around this. It costs them nothing for us to offer whoever we want to offer, right? Or is this an issue, because for the offer to happen we have to take time and resources out of the coach that he doesn’t want to spend?

dumb questions, but I literally know nothing about how visits and offers work. In my mind I thought you could literally offer a player, say, by letter/notice if you wanted to. In that case, the coach doesn’t get involved at all and doesn’t have to spend time with us.

Edited by greenminer
BillySee58 Grand Master

BillySee58

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1 hour ago, greenminer said:

Still wrapping my mind around this. It costs them nothing for us to offer whoever we want to offer, right? Or is this an issue, because for the offer to happen we have to take time and resources out of the coach that he doesn’t want to spend?

dumb questions, but I literally know nothing about how visits and offers work. In my mind I thought you could literally offer a player, say, by letter/notice if you wanted to. In that case, the coach doesn’t get involved at all and doesn’t have to spend time with us.

Us extending offers isn’t the problem. It’s building relationships with the coaches and the players once we’re on the campuses of these powerhouse programs. Many of these schools send kids to P5s every single season. And many of the coaches are truthfully trying to get their kids to sign with the biggest name programs as possible. It makes them look good. 

Our coaches do a lot of visiting schools in the spring, when we are starting to really ramp up the recruiting on Juniors. Let’s say we go visit a school in February, when the football players are doing their offseason after school workouts. Our coach visiting will talk with their coach and say “so can I meet with so and so?”

The high school coach can go two directions here. “Yeah, let’s go talk with him!” or “yes but first I want you to meet with these other kid(s).” Very often these DFW coaches will take that second route. When they see North Texas on our shirt, they usually aren’t thinking “oh, that’s where I want my star player going.” They are usually thinking “oh, there’s a lesser school that some of my borderline D1 players could maybe get a scholarship from.”

So when we visit and the HS coaches try and steer us to their borderline D1 kids that we don’t want, and we don’t end up seriously recruiting them, it can sour our reputation there (and has). And on the flip side, when we go in and want to talk to a player we have identified and the coach tries to steer us towards other players while trying to steer that top player away from us towards the bigger name schools recruiting him, it makes us less likely to visit that school.

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greenminer Grand Master

greenminer

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37 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Us extending offers isn’t the problem. It’s building relationships with the coaches and the players once we’re on the campuses of these powerhouse programs. Many of these schools send kids to P5s every single season. And many of the coaches are truthfully trying to get their kids to sign with the biggest name programs as possible. It makes them look good. ....

Okay, interesting.

Just a final thought but, if I am the student-athlete/recruit, I personally put the interests of the coach way down my influence list.  I have my own ideas about where I want to go, any academic/college considerations, my family, etc.  I'd be open to the coach's input, but the idea that he is filtering out any additional offers from becoming known to me is, well, off putting.  I don't get it.

Edited by greenminer
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El Paso Eagle Grand Master

El Paso Eagle

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One thing that might actually open a few more doors for us on HS campuses is the Portal. More and more schools are recruiting less HS players. The FBS scholarships for HS players are getting harder to come by.

GMG24 Proficient

GMG24

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15 hours ago, meangreanmick said:

One of my closest lifelong friends is a long time HS coach in the metroplex, has won state championships at 5a/6a.   I can tell you for sure that while that may happen, that hasn’t been the main issue.   His comments have been fairly consistent thru the years at the various schools he has been at, and across many of our coaches - “they don’t really spend any time at our school like the other colleges do”’ and “ UNT coaches come in very cocky and don’t give us the time of day”.     This is from a coach that has discussed his players with Saban several times.

i don’t know if we just don’t have the resources and funds to cover sufficiently, or our coaches have red headed step child syndrome and think they need to act cocky to the high school coaches or what.  Probably both, and we need to get it fixed.

Fairly true.  Funds aren't an excuse fill up the tank with gas and drive 50 minutes out then make your way back stopping at 12-15 HS on the way.

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NorthTexasWeLove Grand Master

NorthTexasWeLove

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2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

We do. Knowing the names of the kids isn’t the issue. Going into the schools and being steered away from the kids we really want and towards the kids we don’t is the issue. 

Again, I'm talking to who I'm being steered to. But also to who I want. You can do both without waking on toes and fracturing very fragile egos. 

NorthTexasWeLove Grand Master

NorthTexasWeLove

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32 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Fairly true.  Funds aren't an excuse fill up the tank with gas and drive 50 minutes out then make your way back stopping at 12-15 HS on the way.

If gas funds are a problem with that, I will gladly swing by and fill up a couple vehicles on a bi or tri annual basis. Easy. 

That's a pretty weak. 

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TheReal_jayD Grand Master

TheReal_jayD

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18 hours ago, jtm0097 said:

Pretty interesting listen here. Gabe kind of mentioned that our coaching staff didn't have the best relationships with the local HS coaches. 

 

He mentions not having a good relationship with HS coaches... then goes on to say that alot of coaches in confernces would trade roster with north texas. 

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aztecskin Experienced

aztecskin

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16 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Here’s how this seems to go with UNT coaches recruiting DFW, especially Denton County:

New UNT Coach: “Alright, time to build relationships with these local coaches at these great programs and get top recruits!”

DFW HS Coach: “Hey coach! I want to make sure every player of mine worthwhile goes to a P5 even if it’s their only P5 offer and they’re going to ride the bench there. But hey, will you please offer my FCS/D2 level players?”

New UNT Coach: “Ummm we will consider it.”

DFW HS Coach: “Man, I don’t really like that UNT Coach.”

Mccarney ended up having more success in East Texas and Littrell really pulled some impressive Houston area recruits. Hopefully the new coach can be the one to make it a cool destination for local recruits, but it doesn’t come easily as overrecruited as this area is.

^^^ This 

1) Texas HS coaches have huge egos. There was an Athletic piece and it is all over the map, and Seth was praised by at least a couple.  

2) "My contacts say he wasn't this or that" is hugely missing a lot of context. 

3) While Seth's NT didn't hit on a lot of things I would have liked to see (QB, DT, DE) he did get some talent in here.

4) He started losing and that hurt recruiting. He hired terrible DCs and that hurt recruiting. He was rumored to be on the hot seat and that hurt recruiting. Fans stopped going to games, and that hurt recruiting. 

5) "that roster is amazing, also he can't recruit" doesn't jive. Win and you get better talent. Recruit better and you win. It is a chicken/egg thing. I'm wary of dudes that walk in and say "Oh it was this one thing" 

Edited by aztecskin
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jtm0097 Grand Master

jtm0097

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11 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

He mentions not having a good relationship with HS coaches... then goes on to say that alot of coaches in confernces would trade roster with north texas. 

My thoughts, even though they really don't matter. I'm just a Financial Services Consultant, not a CFB one.

Did Seth upgrade our roster after McCarney left? Yes!

Could we have recruited East Texas and DFW a little better? Absolutely 

This seems kind of subjective to schools that Gabe interacts with. We have had kids from Desoto, Duncanville, SOC, Grand Prarie, etc...

Hopefully our next coach keeps Luke on the staff and we can continue to bring good local talent in here.

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C Rod Mentor

C Rod

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5 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

4) He started losing and that hurt recruiting. He hired terrible DCs and that hurt recruiting. He was rumored to be on the hot seat and that hurt recruiting. Fans stopped going to games, and that hurt recruiting. 

Home UNT football games on TV looked and sounded like absolute booty cheeks, and that hurt recruiting. 

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MeanGreenTexan Grand Master

MeanGreenTexan

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1 hour ago, greenminer said:

Okay, interesting.

Just a final thought but, if I am the student-athlete/recruit, I personally put the interests of the coach way down my influence list.  I have my own ideas about where I want to go, any academic/college considerations, my family, etc.  I'd be open to the coach's input, but the idea that he is filtering out any additional offers from becoming known to me is, well, off putting.  I don't get it.

If you're being gassed-up by just about everyone around you for years that you're "The Man", and you are going to win the Heisman on your way to a HOF NFL career... then your HC gets P5 coaches coming to see you, are you going to seriously consider listening to a G5 school with a 6-or-7-win record?    ...even if that school might have a style of play you'd excel in, and short depth at your position?

 - Yeah, coach.  Go ahead and filter those guys out for me so I don't have to be the bad guy and tell them "no" when I already have Big12 opportunities.

Edited by MeanGreenTexan
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Rudy Grand Master

Rudy

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18 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Well we interviewed Jim Harbaugh then too but he went to Stanford and got a little more money then we could afford at that time 

As I understand it, an agreement to hire Harbaugh was agreed upon, but when he flew out back home, Stanford was waiting by the jet with a truck load full of cash. 

Mike Jackson Grand Master

Mike Jackson

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14 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

I don't care what the HS coaches' attitudes are. It's our coaches' job to get the recruits. PLENTY of other G5 schools out-recruit us on the regular. It's not like we're in a spot where we're so close but just losing out to the Nick Sabans of the world. Tired of excuses.

Some people thinking they have UNT football's best interest at heart always have numerous excuses.  Meanwhile Colorado put there publicly they don't have all the income set to pay Deion and his staff but they going to make it happen.  UAB reboots their program and "toddler" age for an FBS program wins multiple conference championship.  So I understand these HS coaches steering their best guys away from here.  Are we really aspiring to win championships retaining Seth for 2022?  If money (really just a bad extension decision) wasn't an issue you think Seth survives 2021?  When anything besides winning and running a clean program stops you from making a move, outsiders aren't going to view your program as hungry and aspirational  like Houston or SMU.  

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aztecskin Experienced

aztecskin

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2 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

Some people thinking they have UNT football's best interest at heart always have numerous excuses.  Meanwhile Colorado put there publicly they don't have all the income set to pay Deion and his staff but they going to make it happen.  UAB reboots their program and "toddler" age for an FBS program wins multiple conference championship.  So I understand these HS coaches steering their best guys away from here.  Are we really aspiring to win championships retaining Seth for 2022?  If money (really just a bad extension decision) wasn't an issue you think Seth survives 2021?  When anything besides winning and running a clean program stops you from making a move, outsiders aren't going to view your program as hungry and aspirational  like Houston or SMU.  

I always like to joke -- but it aint really joking -- that it is our fault that NT football sucks. We don't make enough money and do not donate enough money to make it better. 

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Mike Jackson Grand Master

Mike Jackson

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1 minute ago, aztecskin said:

I always like to joke -- but it aint really joking -- that it is our fault that NT football sucks. We don't make enough money and do not donate enough money to make it better. 

Well it doesn't help when leadership throws that money away with bad decision.  Like I have stated numerous times before it was ridiculous to lengthen contract term a second time without a Bowl Win, conference championship, a hard fought nail bitting loss in a championship game or even earning a home field advantage for a conference title game.  Generally people don't like to see their money thrown away.  

 

People rolled their eyes and downvoted my comments mentioning a pitch for Deion.  I think get donations to fund a Deion led program in DFW where Deion won a Superbowl is a slam dunk.  Just firing Seth after the UNLV game and putting our name out there as legitimate building an offer for Sanders would have done wonders for the perception of our program.  My donations go up significantly if I saw them take big swings that MAKE SENSE.  

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p_phelps Veteran

p_phelps

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1 minute ago, Mike Jackson said:

Well it doesn't help when leadership throws that money away with bad decision.  Like I have stated numerous times before it was ridiculous to lengthen contract term a second time without a Bowl Win, conference championship, a hard fought nail bitting loss in a championship game or even earning a home field advantage for a conference title game.  Generally people don't like to see their money thrown away.  

 

People rolled their eyes and downvoted my comments mentioning a pitch for Deion.  I think get donations to fund a Deion led program in DFW where Deion won a Superbowl is a slam dunk.  Just firing Seth after the UNLV game and putting our name out there as legitimate building an offer for Sanders would have done wonders for the perception of our program.  My donations go up significantly if I saw them take big swings that MAKE SENSE.  

I agree, I wanted Deon for years. 

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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

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The number 1 influencer for college recruiting has been identified as conference affiliation.   Not location or coaches but what conference the team is in.  

NT gets a half-step up next year and that should be helpful.

It is very easy to id the best players every year.  Some maybe overall busts, but everyone knows who they are. 

The issue is deciding which of the leftovers are legit college prospects.  

I believe that with NIL, that coaches influence on recruiting is much less important.  NIL will probably become the most important factor in recruiting above conferences.  

Not that coaches are not giant factors.  Fry may have had NT in the P5 if NT had been smart enough to keep him.  

NT can get great coaches, note soccer, softball and men's basketball.  

Face the facts, NT never was serious about football until the McCarney hire.   They looked for the best cheap coach.  Littrell as it turned out was a horrible decision.  He was too good to fire, but yet not good enough to elevate the program.  So NT has been in a football limbo for five years. 

It is not going to be easy, but hopefully NT can find the man to make NT very competitive in the AAC.  

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MeanGreenTexan Grand Master

MeanGreenTexan

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6 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

The number 1 influencer for college recruiting has been identified as conference affiliation.   Not location or coaches but what conference the team is in.  

NT gets a half-step up next year and that should be helpful.

It is very easy to id the best players every year.  Some maybe overall busts, but everyone knows who they are. 

The issue is deciding which of the leftovers are legit college prospects.  

I believe that with NIL, that coaches influence on recruiting is much less important.  NIL will probably become the most important factor in recruiting above conferences.  

Not that coaches are not giant factors.  Fry may have had NT in the P5 if NT had been smart enough to keep him.  

NT can get great coaches, note soccer, softball and men's basketball.  

Face the facts, NT never was serious about football until the McCarney hire.   They looked for the best cheap coach.  Littrell as it turned out was a horrible decision.  He was too good to fire, but yet not good enough to elevate the program.  So NT has been in a football limbo for five years. 

It is not going to be easy, but hopefully NT can find the man to make NT very competitive in the AAC.  

No doubt.
The path to play for a national championship was displayed just last year by Cincinnati getting into the CFP from out of the AAC.    I know the CFP expands next year as well, but you have to believe the AAC champ pretty much has the leg-up on that "highest ranked G5" spot.   Win the AAC, and as long as a SBC or MWC team doesn't go 12-0, we're in!

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