Wren Baker to West Virginia

[Cr1028]

11 hours ago, untphd said:

Here we go, unreasonable to expect anything much higher than 6 or 7 wins. Same ole , same ole. The new AD should make this clear, what the hell.  The new AD should set expectations higher, and we should see results or find someone who will.

If you are tired of the same ol, same ol, then step right on up T.Boone. Just because you feel entitled to date (insert attractive famous person here) doesn’t mean it’ll work out. If you’ve been running around with 5s and 6s, don’t think that 9s and 10s are going to swoon over you just because of a new suit and a mid level luxury car. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

11 hours ago, ThatMeanGreen said:

...

Coach: Realistically I think the Littrell hate is a bit overblown. I know we all expect better results, but I absolutely understand the hesitancy of firing a “good” coach and take the risk of getting someone who could tank the program just as soon as elevate it. I think it’s unreasonable to expect anything much higher than 6/7 wins and making a bowl in the next two seasons — the AAC is still a somewhat sizable jump in talent, and expectations should be measured as such as we transition. New AD should understand this and make it clear, but also have Seth on a short leash if we’re getting the doors blown off every game.

...

I love your "realistic" (re: small time) thinking.

 

EDIT:
I bet UCF leadership and a lot of their fans were thinking this same way when they eventually fired Kruczek (after strikingly similar results to SL's) in 2003.  20 years later, they're in a P5 conference.    If we're going to do the same thing, and there's no reason we can't, NT has to start somewhere.

Edited December 2, 2022 by MeanGreenTexan

[ThatMeanGreen]

51 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I love your "realistic" (re: small time) thinking.

 

EDIT:
I bet UCF leadership and a lot of their fans were thinking this same way when they eventually fired Kruczek (after strikingly similar results to SL's) in 2003.  20 years later, they're in a P5 conference.    If we're going to do the same thing, and there's no reason we can't, NT has to start somewhere.

And you think a new coach will magically produce more than 7 wins next season?

[UNTethered Eagle]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

If you are tired of the same ol, same ol, then step right on up T.Boone. Just because you feel entitled to date (insert attractive famous person here) doesn’t mean it’ll work out. If you’ve been running around with 5s and 6s, don’t think that 9s and 10s are going to swoon over you just because of a new suit and a mid level luxury car. 

Projecting much? Don’t crap on others goals of self-improvement because it hasn’t worked out for you.

One of this first ways we can improve is to change our mindset - not double down.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Just now, ThatMeanGreen said:

And you think a new coach will magically produce more than 7 wins next season?

Yes.  And it's not magic.  It's motivation.  It's head-coaching ability, which is much more than just knowing Offensive X's & O's.  

NT's recruiting classes in 2020 & 2021 were highly-regarded.   Those dudes are starting to play a lot now.  There's no reason this can't be taken over by someone who can LEAD... similar to what Dykes has done at TCU after Patterson sort-of checked out there.
Right now, SL is leaning heavily on his OC & DC.   One of those dudes has all-but-said he's done after this season.   The other one has demonstrated he's ready for a P5 job, and will have serious opportunities this offseason for one.

What then?   Can he lean as heavily on Gush and whoever his new OC is?

[untphd]

8 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Yes.  And it's not magic.  It's motivation.  It's head-coaching ability, which is much more than just knowing Offensive X's & O's.  

NT's recruiting classes in 2020 & 2021 were highly-regarded.   Those dudes are starting to play a lot now.  There's no reason this can't be taken over by someone who can LEAD... similar to what Dykes has done at TCU after Patterson sort-of checked out there.
Right now, SL is leaning heavily on his OC & DC.   One of those dudes has all-but-said he's done after this season.   The other one has demonstrated he's ready for a P5 job, and will have serious opportunities this offseason for one.

What then?   Can he lean as heavily on Gush and whoever his new OC is?

It is definitely not magic, it is planning and prep. Dykes has had a great year , 12 and 0. That is 37 miles away, not some dreamland . Let's start to think we can and we will.

[MeanGreenGlory]

23 minutes ago, ThatMeanGreen said:

And you think a new coach will magically produce more than 7 wins next season?

Magically? No. 
 

With the right strategic moves? Yes. 

[ThatMeanGreen]

9 minutes ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

Magically? No. 
 

With the right strategic moves? Yes. 

Sure, but who is going to make the right strategic moves? There’s no AD, and almost certainly won’t be one until January, and good luck making a good coaching hire after the calendar turns. Then you’re looking at no time to recruit, guys naturally leaving in the turnover, and making assistant hires. Maybe you get an excitement boost from potential coaches based on the AD hire, but that’s a big gamble when we’re also facing the uncertainty of navigating a new conference. I’m by no means a Littrell lover, but it doesn’t make sense to let him go at this juncture. A new AD, conference and head coach are a recipe for disaster — let’s sort out the first two before moving into the third.

[UNTethered Eagle]

9 minutes ago, ThatMeanGreen said:

Sure, but who is going to make the right strategic moves? There’s no AD, and almost certainly won’t be one until January, and good luck making a good coaching hire after the calendar turns. Then you’re looking at no time to recruit, guys naturally leaving in the turnover, and making assistant hires. Maybe you get an excitement boost from potential coaches based on the AD hire, but that’s a big gamble when we’re also facing the uncertainty of navigating a new conference. I’m by no means a Littrell lover, but it doesn’t make sense to let him go at this juncture. A new AD, conference and head coach are a recipe for disaster — let’s sort out the first two before moving into the third.

Wren parting ways has basically locked Littrell in due to the reasons you stated.

 

Focused needs to be placed on identifying and hiring a new AD who can make the right HFC hire. 

 

[NT80]

3 minutes ago, UNTethered Eagle said:

Wren parting ways has basically locked Littrell in due to the reasons you stated.

 

Focused needs to be placed on identifying and hiring a new AD who can make the right HFC hire. 

 

Change in Football leadership is needed.  Wren didn't want to address it but a new AD will welcome the opportunity!

[NorthTexasWeLove]

13 minutes ago, ThatMeanGreen said:

Sure, but who is going to make the right strategic moves? There’s no AD, and almost certainly won’t be one until January, and good luck making a good coaching hire after the calendar turns. Then you’re looking at no time to recruit, guys naturally leaving in the turnover, and making assistant hires. Maybe you get an excitement boost from potential coaches based on the AD hire, but that’s a big gamble when we’re also facing the uncertainty of navigating a new conference. I’m by no means a Littrell lover, but it doesn’t make sense to let him go at this juncture. A new AD, conference and head coach are a recipe for disaster — let’s sort out the first two before moving into the third.

Attendance will improve with a change. It's up to the new coach to keep attendance up. Pending coach, he could be a transfer magnet. We know SL is not that. Pending coach, he might be able to juice energy into this place. SL's energy is clearly gone. 

Status quo = 90-100 in recruiting. Stale department. Poor attendance  and 0% chance to go bowling next season. Very easy to see this. 

 

Hey, look, if UNT ends this year 9-5 with 2 trophies I'll shut my mouth and fall in line.*  Otherwise, we are perfectly setup to enter into a much more difficult conference with really minimal ammunition. 

 

*better see an uptick in recruiting with that finish. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

17 minutes ago, ThatMeanGreen said:

Sure, but who is going to make the right strategic moves? There’s no AD, and almost certainly won’t be one until January, and good luck making a good coaching hire after the calendar turns. Then you’re looking at no time to recruit, guys naturally leaving in the turnover, and making assistant hires. Maybe you get an excitement boost from potential coaches based on the AD hire, but that’s a big gamble when we’re also facing the uncertainty of navigating a new conference. I’m by no means a Littrell lover, but it doesn’t make sense to let him go at this juncture. A new AD, conference and head coach are a recipe for disaster — let’s sort out the first two before moving into the third.

Honestly, I would think Baker has not waited to react to whatever Littrell does as far as a coaching search has gone.  He likely already has dudes on a list and lined up, or has already talked to them.   In that case, I would also assume Mosely has been in the passenger seat the whole time, so he's very familiar with what's going on. 
Smatresk was extremely involved in Littrell's hire (basically taking all of the credit when things were going well).  No reason he wouldn't want to be extremely involved this time as well.    Not having an AD is not the end of the world in that search. 

The only possible ramification in all of that would be if the AD Smatresk lines up doesn't like the football hire enough to balk at coming here.   And I just don't think NT makes that poor of a hire.   Like if UAB were in the same boat, and hires Dilfer (just dumb) before an AD, that might be enough to have the AD back out.

[ThatMeanGreen]

27 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Attendance will improve with a change. It's up to the new coach to keep attendance up. Pending coach, he could be a transfer magnet. We know SL is not that. Pending coach, he might be able to juice energy into this place. SL's energy is clearly gone. 

Status quo = 90-100 in recruiting. Stale department. Poor attendance  and 0% chance to go bowling next season. Very easy to see this. 

 

Hey, look, if UNT ends this year 9-5 with 2 trophies I'll shut my mouth and fall in line.*  Otherwise, we are perfectly setup to enter into a much more difficult conference with really minimal ammunition. 

 

*better see an uptick in recruiting with that finish. 

Let’s break this down:

1. Attendance will improve with wins. The average UNT fan, or potential fan, will not care in the slightest who the coach is.

2. It’s absolutely not the coach’s job to (directly) keep attendance up. It’s the coach’s job to run a successful program, which, sure, will drive attendance, but that shouldn’t be on the coach’s mind.

3. I don’t know what you mean by your recruiting point. Recruitment hasn’t been the biggest issue, retention, development and scheme fit have been.

4. No one is asking anyone to “fall in line.” I agree that Seth is likely not the answer moving forward. But to say that we have minimal ammunition moving forward if we retain Seth, and therefore (presumably) most of his assistants and eligible players that are, again, playing for a conference championship today, is an absurd statement to make.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

10 minutes ago, ThatMeanGreen said:

Let’s break this down:

1. Attendance will improve with wins. The average UNT fan, or potential fan, will not care in the slightest who the coach is.

2. It’s absolutely not the coach’s job to (directly) keep attendance up. It’s the coach’s job to run a successful program, which, sure, will drive attendance, but that shouldn’t be on the coach’s mind.

3. I don’t know what you mean by your recruiting point. Recruitment hasn’t been the biggest issue, retention, development and scheme fit have been.

4. No one is asking anyone to “fall in line.” I agree that Seth is likely not the answer moving forward. But to say that we have minimal ammunition moving forward if we retain Seth, and therefore (presumably) most of his assistants and eligible players that are, again, playing for a conference championship today, is an absurd statement to make.

1. Hire the right coach and people will care who the coach is. 

2. Yeah, winning drives attendance. #1 factor. No marketing ploy except wads of cash will drive attendance faster and with more consistency than winning. 

3. Recruiting, when not winning vs more talented teams, is always the driving factor. Hence losing to more talented teams. 

4. A .500 coach stumbling into a weak conference's conference championship isn't exactly exciting and spells trouble when competition is about to get tough. Playing teams with UTSA talent will be the weekly ordeal not the conference championship scenario moving forward. And I am simply stating, win 2 in a row, get a boost in recruiting, and I'll throw my case out of the window. 

[GreenBacker]

44 minutes ago, UNTethered Eagle said:

Wren parting ways has basically locked Littrell in due to the reasons you stated.

 

Focused needs to be placed on identifying and hiring a new AD who can make the right HFC hire. 

 

I agree that this probably locks Littrell in unless he gets blown out in the next two games, but if they don’t extend him that leaves him as a lame duck going into the last year of his contract which will kill recruiting.  So we either fire him, leave him with one year left, or extend and try and get a low buy out to help with recruiting.  We’re in a tough spot.  Negatives no matter which way we go.  

[MeanGreenTexan]

48 minutes ago, GreenBacker said:

I agree that this probably locks Littrell in unless he gets blown out in the next two games, but if they don’t extend him that leaves him as a lame duck going into the last year of his contract which will kill recruiting.  So we either fire him, leave him with one year left, or extend and try and get a low buy out to help with recruiting.  We’re in a tough spot.  Negatives no matter which way we go.  

An extension doesn't have to be 5 years, despite what Sexton might say.  It can be 2.    

Again, NT isn't over the barrel this time.   No P5 is knocking on Littrell's door to hire him away right now like KSSt was last time.

[rcade]

1 hour ago, ThatMeanGreen said:

1. Attendance will improve with wins. The average UNT fan, or potential fan, will not care in the slightest who the coach is.

College football fans care a lot about who the coach is. I've spent a lot of time in Gainesville because I have a son in school there, and from the second Billy Napier was hired he was the No. 1 topic of conversation in the community.

A coach who can get the fan base fired up would be a big deal at UNT.