We hired Seth and Tulane hired Fritz

[meangreenfaninno]

1 minute ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I think you are correct and that Wren probably has no desire to get rid of him (especially if it keeps him from avoiding the big money donors). I also think the way this has been handled 100% reinforces what other schools and fans say about UNT football - Winning is not a priority. I have always tried to understand why players from Denton do not stay at North Texas, when you see players in places like Houston stay at the local university. I think a great example is what the coach for Denton Guyer said their interview during one of their playoff games; players want to play at schools with an "expectation of excellence". Seth gives us a very average coach - He is our Rick Stockstill.

 

Ditto^^
 

Seth is at the top of what we have historically had at UNT but is that an accurate reflection of what we want to be?  To me it is not.  I think we can do better.  Hiring a coach is not the same as getting married where you promise to stick together no matter what.  If your coach is underperforming in key areas pike recruiting and QB development you deserve and have every right to make a change.

[UNTethered Eagle]

49 minutes ago, keith said:

With the exception of a handful of coaches or ADs that see something in the coach or have patience to see the process through, the head coach industry is a what have you done for me lately business.  Tulane has done well this year.  Assuming we move on our coaching staff and hire someone like Willie Fritz, are we willing to be patient enough to wait through a 6 year conference record like the one below before we go 7-1 in and get to 10-2 for the regular season?  

1.  1-7  (4-8)

2.  3-5  (5-7)

3.  5-3  (6-6)

4.  3-5  (6-6)

5.  3-5  (6-5)

6.  1-7  (2-10)

7.  7-1  (10-2)

This is a super fair point. The only rebuttal would highlight the difference in strength of schedule from AAC vs CUSS, and our facility/coach salary compared to our conference mates setting a different expectation whether warranted or not.

[Jonnyeagle]

1 hour ago, keith said:

With the exception of a handful of coaches or ADs that see something in the coach or have patience to see the process through, the head coach industry is a what have you done for me lately business.  Tulane has done well this year.  Assuming we move on our coaching staff and hire someone like Willie Fritz, are we willing to be patient enough to wait through a 6 year conference record like the one below before we go 7-1 in and get to 10-2 for the regular season?  

1.  1-7  (4-8)

2.  3-5  (5-7)

3.  5-3  (6-6)

4.  3-5  (6-6)

5.  3-5  (6-5)

6.  1-7  (2-10)

7.  7-1  (10-2)

Great post @keith.  My only rebuttal would be, yes I could live with some down seasons if the final product turns into a top 25 team.  The main reason for this is with the new 12-team playoff starting in 2025, if you get in the top 25 you have a damn good shot to get in a playoff game which could be program changing and tons of money that we could use.  Seth hasn't sniffed the top 25 for the 7 years he has been here.

[Cr1028]

47 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I think you are correct and that Wren probably has no desire to get rid of him (especially if it keeps him from avoiding the big money donors). I also think the way this has been handled 100% reinforces what other schools and fans say about UNT football - Winning is not a priority. I have always tried to understand why players from Denton do not stay at North Texas, when you see players in places like Houston stay at the local university. I think a great example is what the coach for Denton Guyer said their interview during one of their playoff games; players want to play at schools with an "expectation of excellence". Seth gives us a very average coach - He is our Rick Stockstill.

 

Players like Tyreke Davis who stayed in Denton or players like Jaelon Darden that left Houston to come here?

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I think you are correct and that Wren probably has no desire to get rid of him (especially if it keeps him from avoiding the big money donors). I also think the way this has been handled 100% reinforces what other schools and fans say about UNT football - Winning is not a priority. I have always tried to understand why players from Denton do not stay at North Texas, when you see players in places like Houston stay at the local university. I think a great example is what the coach for Denton Guyer said their interview during one of their playoff games; players want to play at schools with an "expectation of excellence". Seth gives us a very average coach - He is our Rick Stockstill.

 

Historically, we have been a reflection of this.

But with our current budget, that would be contradictory.  Why spend this much money and say we are okay with average?  Seems like something would have to give.

[El Paso Eagle]

4 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Historically, we have been a reflection of this.

But with our current budget, that would be contradictory.  Why spend this much money and say we are okay with average?  Seems like something would have to give.

@greenminer For years we said if we only had facilities we would awaken the sleeping giant. Well we've had the facilities for years now and we're still not at the top of the conference year end and year out. With our budget and our facilities it's hard to explain why we're not doing better

[El Paso Eagle]

36 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Players like Tyreke Davis who stayed in Denton or players like Jaelon Darden that left Houston to come here?

Do you really want to look back over the years to all the good players from Denton that never stay here or have not even come back with the transfer portal? Do you honestly think the football coaches at the high level programs in the North Texas area believe that North Texas is committed to excellence?

[Cr1028]

10 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Do you really want to look back over the years to all the good players from Denton that never stay here or have not even come back with the transfer portal? Do you honestly think the football coaches at the high level programs in the North Texas area believe that North Texas is committed to excellence?

The point is, you cannot get every good player out of the town in which you are based. To use Houston is laughable, Houston players are spread across every program within 500 miles of that city. We likely have as many DFW kids as they have Houston area kids.

[VideoEagle]

14 hours ago, 2020 Sucks said:

He probably survived a 2-10 season because he could give an interview without a minimum of 7 cliches in 3 minutes.

I'm guessing you haven't seen any Willie Fritz interviews. I counted four cliches in under two minutes. BTW, it's very difficult to hear the questions in Tulane press conferences also. And, the questions after the first couple appear to be designed to elicit quotes needed for the reporter(s) to fill out articles or video packages. 

 

[GMG24]

55 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

@greenminer For years we said if we only had facilities we would awaken the sleeping giant. Well we've had the facilities for years now and we're still not at the top of the conference year end and year out. With our budget and our facilities it's hard to explain why we're not doing better

Ehh.. I will disagree there, we have the incredible indoor which is amazing in and of itself.  Outside of that our facilities are well below average, Athletic Dorms how outdated now, Weight Room is on par with most HS weight rooms in this state (Maybe behind), LR not comparable to most D1's in the state.  While we are a long way from where we used to be, we are not where a lot of people think we are.  

 

Again I think Facilities get lost in the awe of the amazing Indoor.  

[El Paso Eagle]

Just now, GMG24 said:

Ehh.. I will disagree there, we have the incredible indoor which is amazing in and of itself.  Outside of that our facilities are well below average, Athletic Dorms how outdated now, Weight Room is on par with most HS weight rooms in this state (Maybe behind), LR not comparable to most D1's in the state.  While we are a long way from where we used to be, we are not where a lot of people think we are.  

 

Again I think Facilities get lost in the awe of the amazing Indoor.  

Not sure how long you've been following but do you remember the days before we had the new stadium? We had some of the worst facilities in the country. If you think we have poor facilities now look around the league at other schools. I also believe our current facilities ate one of the things that helped us get into the American.

[GMG24]

2 hours ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Great post @keith.  My only rebuttal would be, yes I could live with some down seasons if the final product turns into a top 25 team.  The main reason for this is with the new 12-team playoff starting in 2025, if you get in the top 25 you have a damn good shot to get in a playoff game which could be program changing and tons of money that we could use.  Seth hasn't sniffed the top 25 for the 7 years he has been here.

Seasons: 58 (1953 to 2022)

Record (W-L-T): 278-356-11

Adjusted Record (W-L-T): 281-353-11

Conferences: CUSA, Sun Belt, Big West, MVC, Ind

Conf. Championships: 9

Bowl Record: 11 Bowls, 2-9, .182 W-L% (Major Bowls)

Ranked in AP Poll: 0 Times (Preseason), 0 Times (Final), 2 Weeks (Total)

 

Naming something that has been done twice in the history of an institution is a strange bar to ask for.  

[El Paso Eagle]

27 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Naming something that has been done twice in the history of an institution is a strange bar to ask for.  

Nothing like wanting to hold your school to very low standards. God forbid someone wants the standards to be raised.

 

I could also add that Seth is being paid like no other coach in our school history so perhaps we should hold him accountable to higher standards

Edited November 26, 2022 by El Paso Eagle

[Cr1028]

40 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Not sure how long you've been following but do you remember the days before we had the new stadium? We had some of the worst facilities in the country. If you think we have poor facilities now look around the league at other schools. I also believe our current facilities ate one of the things that helped us get into the American.

He didn’t say we have poor facilities now or compared to ones we used to have. He even said we are a long way from where we used to be. The point he is trying to make is that we don’t have top tier facilities compared to other programs across the board like many think we do. We have phenomenal facilities compared to 2000s UNT.

[GMG24]

25 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Nothing like wanting to hold your school to very low standards. God forbid someone wants the standards to be raised.

 

I could also add that Seth is being paid like no other coach in our school history so perhaps we should hold him accountable to higher standards

As is everything else now, Coaches across the board are being paid more than ever before.  I agree there is nothing wrong with having high standards and doing everything you can to reach those.  The most damning thing against Seth I believe is the lack of success in all bowl games/conference championship games.  

 

We were a jump ball in the corner of the endzone away in San Antonio from hosting the Conference Championship this year. 

 

We have had 4, count them 4, 9 wins seasons since 2002.  The guy currently the HC is responsible for 2 of those.   I completely agree that we should have high standards, however don't forget the grass isn't always greener.

[greenminer]

I think our facilities are fine.  It's (mostly) been our decisions at the HC position.

[keith]

7 hours ago, UNTethered Eagle said:

This is a super fair point. The only rebuttal would highlight the difference in strength of schedule from AAC vs CUSS, and our facility/coach salary compared to our conference mates setting a different expectation whether warranted or not.

Pretty much every conference has some at the top, some at the bottom and the great unwashed in the middle.  Why I focus on conference records is, in theory, the resources are comparable and you play the same teams year after year.  So, Tulane should be as equipped to compete in the AAC as we are to compete in CUSA. 

[keith]

7 hours ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Great post @keith.  My only rebuttal would be, yes I could live with some down seasons if the final product turns into a top 25 team.  The main reason for this is with the new 12-team playoff starting in 2025, if you get in the top 25 you have a damn good shot to get in a playoff game which could be program changing and tons of money that we could use.  Seth hasn't sniffed the top 25 for the 7 years he has been here.

I guess my question is what in the previous 6 Tulane seasons would have led anyone to believe they are going to be a top-25 in season 7.  

[NT80]

19 hours ago, NT93 said:

Seth 43-43

Fritz 41-45

I agree, not a significant difference, yet some of you think Fritz is a great coach and SL is a bum.  
 

And let’s be clear, I’m not a Seth apologist, but I can be objective.

Fritz has been a head coach at 5 colleges.

Total record = 195-114.

[UNTethered Eagle]

13 minutes ago, keith said:

Pretty much every conference has some at the top, some at the bottom and the great unwashed in the middle.  Why I focus on conference records is, in theory, the resources are comparable and you play the same teams year after year.  So, Tulane should be as equipped to compete in the AAC as we are to compete in CUSA. 

Focusing on conference record is a good place to work from but there are too many variables to get a true apples to apples comparison. And I’m not sure how happy Tulane fans have been with the prior 6 seasons. Maybe fritz is being absolved of his sins right now.
 

Seth however does not have UNT in the same spot as Tulane. That’s for certain.

[untbowler]

Easy choice:

Fritz: 59-24 and 38-28

Littrell: 10-48 and 34-44

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by untbowler

[greenminer]

If SL wins a CUSA ship AND the bowl game, I 100% support him returning for 2023.

[Cr1028]

23 minutes ago, untbowler said:

Easy choice:

Fritz: 59-24 and 38-28

Littrell: 10-48 and 34-44

 

[NT93]

54 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Fritz has been a head coach at 5 colleges.

Total record = 195-114.

I was obviously comparing their records at their current schools which is what the discussion is about, but you knew that.  Thanks though for pointing out how successful he’s been everywhere except Tulane.