In defense of Littrell

[Pavlovs Eagle]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

So easy, in fact, you can have your biggest booster simply sponsor a bowl game right down the street to set up the easiest, slam dunk win possible.   Oh, wait.

And lose to a MAC team...

Kudos to G Brint, that's the power of $400 a billable hour tax consulting right there!

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

 

 

Yes we were the only offer and we only offered because of Littrell’s relationship with Mason’s HS coach. Otherwise Mason was set to be a PWO at one of the Big 12 Oklahoma schools.

I like to think we found Fine because of the relationship, and offered because he was stinking good at QB.

[Mike Jackson]

2 hours ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

There were 15 bowls during the 1978 final season of Hayden Fry at NTSU.  There are 43 bowl games today.

So it's understandable that it's easier to make it Blue Plate Mayonnaise Bowl in 2022 than it was to be invited to a 1978 season bowl.

Absolutely this!!!   I think some younger fans/alumni has ZERO clue how hard it was keep NTSU competitive with the entirety of College Football cheating like gang busters with MUCH deeper pockets than NTSU.   But during that era this program was competitive in its conference so much that Fry took us independent to get better game and national respect.  The landscape has DRASTICALLY changed post 2000 to the point startup programs like UTSA, South Alabama, FAU and Liberty can experience great success.  Look at the list below.  Some of these programs have raced past Seth during his tenure.  Look at this list below.  And please remember that 2 coaches at UAB have beaten Seth's team since they folded the program and came back.  They aren't even included on this list below.

 

[keith]

5 hours ago, southsideguy said:

• The Roadrunners are 18-3 in C-USA games under third-year head coach Jeff Traylor.

This is where SL should be in conference play

He's also 0-2 in bowl games.

It's funny that any amount of success/wins we have had (not great, but we have had some) in C-USA is discounted as meaningless because anyone with a pulse can win against the worst conference in the country, but UTSA's success against that exact same competition is characterized as evidence of greatness or passing us by.  We need some collective consistency in how we evaluate teams/coaches.  

I'm not defending our coach as the tread title implies, just throwing some facts out for everyone.  Since it's a what have you done for me lately world, looking at the last 12 conference games, Traylor is 11-1 (lone loss is to Littrell) and SL is 10-2.  Traylor (or rather his team) is manhandling Rice, so he will go to 12-1.   If Seth (the team) is able to beat Rice next week, he will improved to 11-2 in conference play over the last year and a half.  

We also need to figure out how to judge the admittedly watered down bowl games where players sit out and the game itself is treated more like an exhibition or glorified scrimmage that's just a vacation/party/reward for the players.

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, keith said:

He's also 0-2 in bowl games.

It's funny that any amount of success/wins we have had (not great, but we have had some) in C-USA is discounted as meaningless because anyone with a pulse can win against the worst conference in the country, but UTSA's success against that exact same competition is characterized as evidence of greatness or passing us by.  We need some collective consistency in how we evaluate teams/coaches.  

I'm not defending our coach as the tread title implies, just throwing some facts out for everyone.  Since it's a what have you done for me lately world, looking at the last 12 conference games, Traylor is 11-1 (lone loss is to Littrell) and SL is 10-2.  Traylor (or rather his team) is manhandling Rice, so he will go to 12-1.   If Seth (the team) is able to beat Rice next week, he will improved to 11-2 in conference play over the last year and a half.  

We also need to figure out how to judge the admittedly watered down bowl games where players sit out and the game itself is treated more like an exhibition or glorified scrimmage that's just a vacation/party/reward for the players.

The lense that people use to view Traylor is different because unlike SL he is taking care of some OOC foes and oh! He won the CUSA ‘ship game last year.

[keith]

28 minutes ago, greenminer said:

The lense that people use to view Traylor is different because unlike SL he is taking care of some OOC foes and oh! He won the CUSA ‘ship game last year.

Let's review those OOC wins over the last 3 years...

Texas State (finished 2-10)

SFA (non-major finished 6-4)

Lamar (non-major finished 1-9)

Illinois (finished 5-7)

Memphis (finished 6-6)

UNLV (finished 2-10)

Army (3-6 so far)

Texas Southern (non-major 5-5 so far)

Collectively, major OOC foes with a 18-39 W/L record or 30-57 if you include non-majors.  Basically only one team they beat OOC in the last 3 years finished with a winning record and that was Stephen F. Austin at 6-4.  Teams and coaches cannot control who they play, but some seem to always get teams when they are down...luck of the draw.   

[TheColonyEagle]

9 minutes ago, keith said:

Let's review those OOC wins over the last 3 years...

Texas State (finished 2-10)

SFA (non-major finished 6-4)

Lamar (non-major finished 1-9)

Illinois (finished 5-7)

Memphis (finished 6-6)

UNLV (finished 2-10)

Army (3-6 so far)

Texas Southern (non-major 5-5 so far)

Collectively, major OOC foes with a 18-39 W/L record or 30-57 if you include non-majors.  Basically only one team they beat OOC in the last 3 years finished with a winning record and that was Stephen F. Austin at 6-4.  Teams and coaches cannot control who they play, but some seem to always get teams when they are down...luck of the draw.   

You’re right. Traylor is overrrated (I sincerely believe that) and his record is not that impressive if you judge it the way some judge Littrell’s.
 

Which makes the fact that he’s accomplished so much more than Littrell that much worse. 
 

He has an 11 win season

Conference championship (about to be 2)

Top 25 ranking 

this is his 3rd year? Littrell’s had 7

Edited November 19, 2022 by TheColonyEagle

[TheColonyEagle]

Put it another way….Traylor isn’t better than Littrell because Traylor's so great…..it’s because Littrell’s so mediocre 

[keith]

I don't know who started the 7 year thing, but it certainly caught on.  Littrell has had 6 complete seasons one of which was a Covid debacle.  The 7th season (this one) is incomplete.

Traylor has a 12 win season, but who's counting?  And we smoked them that year.  It wasn't close.  Oh, but it was raining and cold, so doesn't really count.

They were a paper tiger last year.  Nice record, but their best wins were against UAB (finished 9-4) and WKU who they beat twice (finished 9-5).  Their wins in 2021 were against teams that finished with a combined 56-79 W/L for the year. 

[TheColonyEagle]

1 hour ago, keith said:

Traylor has a 12 win season, but who's counting? 

I am

We’ve playing football for 100 years and we’ve never had one of those 

I’ll trade them smoking US for a 12 win season and top 25 ranking 100 out of 100 times 

there was a discussion on GameDay last week when they were at UT and the crew was trying to name all the FBS programs in Texas. They mentioned UTSA. Didn’t mention us. 
 

12 win seasons move the needle. 

[Udomann]

1 hour ago, keith said:

I don't know who started the 7 year thing, but it certainly caught on.  Littrell has had 6 complete seasons one of which was a Covid debacle.  The 7th season (this one) is incomplete.

Most everyone had the same covid year as us. We weren't playing at a disadvantage. Apples vs apples(ish)

Why would you want Seth next year instead of rolling the dice? The risk is small, with a big upside. 

I personally would like to see more than a few thousands butts in seats.

[untphd]

When change occurs it brings with it a lot of work, but without it we will be in the middle of the middle of the pack. Thing big or at least bigger, go mean green.

[Wag Tag]

On 11/18/2022 at 2:23 PM, Mike Jackson said:

That is 100% false Portland State is Div I FCS team.  I would go on to cite other errors in your post but this basic one egregious enough to invalidate the rest of it.  FCS, Portland, State and that season ranked 10th team in all of FCS.  Inexcusable absolutely but we’ve seen high-quality FCS teams beat FBS teams, even ranked FBS teams.  And that’s why you have to exaggerate it, to make a point in defense of Seth. 

We were not even competitive in that game. Mc and his recruiting was absolutely terrible.((did we ever break 100 ranking) Then he makes his famous public statement on how hard it was to recruit at UNT. Should of been fired that day! The program was a mess.

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, Udomann said:

Most everyone had the same covid year as us. We weren't playing at a disadvantage. Apples vs apples(ish)

Why would you want Seth next year instead of rolling the dice? The risk is small, with a big upside. 

I personally would like to see more than a few thousands butts in seats.

I think the risk is greater than you are accounting for. Better money and facilities do not guarantee success. We have just as much chance of being as bad as now 3-8 LaTech (who lost to a 2-9 Charlotte today) next year as we do being as good as UTSA.

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I am

We’ve playing football for 100 years and we’ve never had one of those 

I’ll trade them smoking US for a 12 win season and top 25 ranking 100 out of 100 times 

there was a discussion on GameDay last week when they were at UT and the crew was trying to name all the FBS programs in Texas. They mentioned UTSA. Didn’t mention us. 
 

12 win seasons move the needle. 

They mentioned UTSA because UTSA played Texas this season.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

3 hours ago, keith said:

Let's review those OOC wins over the last 3 years...

Texas State (finished 2-10)

SFA (non-major finished 6-4)

Lamar (non-major finished 1-9)

Illinois (finished 5-7)

Memphis (finished 6-6)

UNLV (finished 2-10)

Army (3-6 so far)

Texas Southern (non-major 5-5 so far)

Collectively, major OOC foes with a 18-39 W/L record or 30-57 if you include non-majors.  Basically only one team they beat OOC in the last 3 years finished with a winning record and that was Stephen F. Austin at 6-4.  Teams and coaches cannot control who they play, but some seem to always get teams when they are down...luck of the draw.   

Actually coaches can control it. They have say. Case in point, Seth Littrell mixed our Army series. 

[keith]

2 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I am

We’ve playing football for 100 years and we’ve never had one of those 

I’ll trade them smoking US for a 12 win season and top 25 ranking 100 out of 100 times 

there was a discussion on GameDay last week when they were at UT and the crew was trying to name all the FBS programs in Texas. They mentioned UTSA. Didn’t mention us. 
 

12 win seasons move the needle. 

We’re been playing football for 109 years.  I believe the first 12-game season (i.e. 12 win opportunity) we played was in 2001, so we haven’t had that many opportunities. Since you singled out Traylor and UTSA, it seemed odd to me that you didn’t know they won 12 games last year. 
 

I’m not advocating one way or the other in terms of our coach.  I’m simply sharing some facts.  Mr. Baker has some decisions to make. 
 

We all want UNT to go undefeated every year.  Unfortunately we’ve barely sniffed that and quite frankly our historical football performance over the last 109 years sucks. It starts gnawing on the psyche of any fan.  Every time it seems like we are about to turn the corner, we come crashing back to earth. Did we piss off the football gods back in the day or something? 

Edited November 20, 2022 by keith

[keith]

45 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Actually coaches can control it. They have say. Case in point, Seth Littrell mixed our Army series. 

Ok so maybe influence OOC opponents, but I’m not sure coaches have complete control.  Maybe a few do, but I’d be surprised if Littrell sets our OOC schedule unilaterally.   Army is back on the schedule in ‘28 and ‘29,  so maybe that signals that changes are a comin’. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by keith

[TheColonyEagle]

44 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

They mentioned UTSA because UTSA played Texas this season.

Not because they were ranked in the top 25 and were in front of them for a season? That had nothing to do with it? Do you think they could name 2 of UTs OOC opponents? Including Bama? 
 

I admire your dedication but dude….

[TheColonyEagle]

20 minutes ago, keith said:

Since you singled out Traylor and UTSA, it seemed odd to me that you didn’t know they won 12 games last year. 
 

11 games. 12 games. Whatever. we’ve never won either one in 100 or 109 years 

[tmjerm]

I love and appreciate Seth and he has brought us to new heights. He has been nothing but class about it winning AND losing.  He’s done a hell of a job to get us here.  Unfortunately, things have gotten very stale.  Unless he wins the conference and/or a bowl, we need a change.  I’m not certain we don’t need a change regardless.  One of the missing ingredients is ambassadorship.  If he wins that’s not as necessary, but the extroverted parts of the job aren’t really there. Forever grateful for his time here, but it’s time for change. 

[Cooke County Kid]

The sky is not falling. We went from piss poor to mediocre, to consistently mediocre. To get to mediocrity it has cost us $2 million a year for a mediocre head coach.  It will probably cost us $3 million a year for a pretty good coach. We are getting more money from the AAC for media rights although not a full share yet but more than we get now. We just need to hire the right coach, a WINNER would be good!

Edited November 20, 2022 by Cooke County Kid
Misspelled

[keith]

33 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

11 games. 12 games. Whatever. we’ve never won either one in 100 or 109 years 

No argument there.  Not counting vacated wins, we’ve never won 10 games in a season.  In the modern era, 58 seasons since 1953 (I-AA years don’t count), we’ve won 9 games in a season a grand total of 7 times.  Only 4 times since returning to D-1 football in 1995.  Two of those four times were Littrell coached teams.   Not sure what that says, but it is what it is. 

 

[2020 Sucks]

21 hours ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

There were 15 bowls during the 1978 final season of Hayden Fry at NTSU.  There are 43 bowl games today.

So it's understandable that it's easier to make it Blue Plate Mayonnaise Bowl in 2022 than it was to be invited to a 1978 season bowl.

Dudewipes.com Bowl is Seth’s level!

[2020 Sucks]

11 hours ago, keith said:

Ok so maybe influence OOC opponents, but I’m not sure coaches have complete control.  Maybe a few do, but I’d be surprised if Littrell sets our OOC schedule unilaterally.   Army is back on the schedule in ‘28 and ‘29,  so maybe that signals that changes are a comin’. 

NOBODY wants to play Army!  They expose people with their ball control option style.  It’s a wasted week of prep for defending a scheme you can translate nothing to the remaining seasons games!