What does it take for Seth to stay now?

wardly · November 14, 2022

49 minutes ago, MeanGreen4Life1998 said:

Hes done in my book. Lost another big game and this time to an interem HC and a team that has done poorly all year. There is absolutely no excuse to lose to UAB this year

UAB is playing pretty well. They lost to WK by 3, and in double overtime to UTSA with their backup QB.The Blazers have lost 5 games by a total of 27 points.At 5&5, their next 2 games are LSU and LA. Tech. Assuming they beat the Bulldogs they are bowl bound at 6 & 6. UNT should beat Rice and move to 7 &5, but lose again to UTSA for a 7 & 6 season. Looking at the stats from their first meeting its a wonder we were even in the contest. Having said that, that is what is great about College football [just ask UCLA] and why I love the game. On any given day..........

MeanGreenTexan · November 14, 2022

20 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Has he got rid of any coaches under contract? 7th year coach paid at the top level of G5 - are you satisfied? Are you one of the ones who thinks we're ole UNT and should not expect more? It's a reflection on our program that we are even having this conversation in year seven. But by all means, let's keep taking jabs at other programs when ours is in the state it is; after all it will probably make you feel better.

The problem is that Baker was over a barrel last offseason. There were MAYBE a handful of people in between the UTSA game and the bowl game who wanted Littrell gone. I'm sure the donors, and heck, probably Wren himself, all thought he had "turned the corner".

Then the bowl game happened. Then the Non-conference beatdowns happened. I believe the mirage dried up.

Now, we're seeing the exact same corner "turned" during C-USA play again this season. It's more easily recognizable now (since we saw it just 11 months ago). The only difference is, it's not all happening at the very backend of the schedule like it did last season. I don't think Wren or the donors are fooled this time.

However, as atrocious as this conference is, NT is still poised to make the CCG. Littrell simply can't be fired until that game is lost.

And if it's somehow won, then Baker is over a different barrel: "Can I fire a conference champion coach?" Will the donors be on board?
We would, once again, be thanking UTSA for allowing this wound to continue festering. We'd likely get paired up against Troy or Coastal Carolina (possibly South Alabama) in New Orleans again for another monumental bowl beatdown that Littrell would be allowed to coach. Meanwhile, several very nice coaches will have been snatched up by other programs who already decided on going a different direction.

If Wren wants his pick of coaches, Littrell would have to lose either Rice (makes the decision WAY EASY, and gives him an extra week to nail-down his guy), or UTSA... as much as I'd love to see NT win C-USA (and I'll definitely be rooting for our guys to get it done!).

Big Z · November 14, 2022

24 minutes ago, wardly said:

UAB is playing pretty well. They lost to WK by 3, and in double overtime to UTSA with their backup QB.The Blazers have lost 5 games by a total of 27 points.At 5&5, their next 2 games are LSU and LA. Tech. Assuming they beat the Bulldogs they are bowl bound at 6 & 6. UNT should beat Rice and move to 7 &5, but lose again to UTSA for a 7 & 6 season. Looking at the stats from their first meeting its a wonder we were even in the contest. Having said that, that is what is great about College football [just ask UCLA] and why I love the game. On any given day..........

Just like UCONN beating #19 Liberty to be bowl eligible

Edited November 14, 2022 by Big Z

southsideguy · November 14, 2022

SL will stay if offered a contract. Did that answer the question? I personally think the ship has sailed but something deep inside tells me he will be back. Maybe it is the beaten UNT fan syndrome showing through.

UNT Texas Hooligan · November 14, 2022

The illusion is over. Seth/this staff always choke when it matters the most and it's been like that all the way through Year 7. It's not just that we lost to a down UAB, but it was an absolute slaughter in the second half which has been Seth's MO. Literally same circus, same clowns type of situation. I've been saying and will say it again, but Seth has peaked at NT. We need a fresh perspective to push us over the top in the American. To answer the poll, I think he needs to win out which includes a conference championship win. Anything less than a conference championship and he should be gone. A win in a meaningless bowl doesn't change that.

UNTcrazy727 · November 14, 2022

10 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The problem is that Baker was over a barrel last offseason. There were MAYBE a handful of people in between the UTSA game and the bowl game who wanted Littrell gone. I'm sure the donors, and heck, probably Wren himself, all thought he had "turned the corner".

Then the bowl game happened. Then the Non-conference beatdowns happened. I believe the mirage dried up.

Now, we're seeing the exact same corner "turned" during C-USA play again this season. It's more easily recognizable now (since we saw it just 11 months ago). The only difference is, it's not all happening at the very backend of the schedule like it did last season. I don't think Wren or the donors are fooled this time.

However, as atrocious as this conference is, NT is still poised to make the CCG. Littrell simply can't be fired until that game is lost.

And if it's somehow won, then Baker is over a different barrel:  "Can I fire a conference champion coach?" Will the donors be on board?
We would, once again, be thanking UTSA for allowing this wound to continue festering. We'd likely get paired up against Troy or Coastal Carolina (possibly South Alabama) in New Orleans again for another monumental bowl beatdown that Littrell would be allowed to coach. Meanwhile, several very nice coaches will have been snatched up by other programs who already decided on going a different direction.

If Wren wants his pick of coaches, Littrell would have to lose either Rice (makes the decision WAY EASY, and gives him an extra week to nail-down his guy), or UTSA... as much as I'd love to see NT win C-USA (and I'll definitely be rooting for our guys to get it done!).

UNT beating UTSA to win conference, but then getting blown out in New Orleans by a Sun Belt team is such an intriguing situation. Part of me thinks there's no way we'd fire a coach who just won conference, but maybe? That would be 6 losses and 4 of them in blowout fashion.

C Rod · November 14, 2022

The transfer portal window opens on Monday Dec 4th.

Waiting until after the TBD bowl game to make a decision would be detrimental to our transfer portal recruiting efforts. In my opinion it's conference championship or bust.

MeanGreenTexan · November 14, 2022

21 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

UNT beating UTSA to win conference, but then getting blown out in New Orleans by a Sun Belt team is such an intriguing situation. Part of me thinks there's no way we'd fire a coach who just won conference, but maybe? That would be 6 losses and 4 of them in blowout fashion.

It's the same exact situation as last year. I think if NT had lost to UTSA, and went without bowl eligibility, Littrell would have been gone.

The only difference is that this time, we'd have hardware, not just bragging rights over spoiling a perfect season.

EDIT: And just be ready for the built-in bowl game loss excuse of: "If KD Davis had played, we would have won!!!1!!1!!". Just like Torrey last year.

Edited November 14, 2022 by MeanGreenTexan

MeanGreen4Life1998 · November 14, 2022

54 minutes ago, wardly said:

UAB is playing pretty well. They lost to WK by 3, and in double overtime to UTSA with their backup QB.The Blazers have lost 5 games by a total of 27 points.At 5&5, their next 2 games are LSU and LA. Tech. Assuming they beat the Bulldogs they are bowl bound at 6 & 6. UNT should beat Rice and move to 7 &5, but lose again to UTSA for a 7 & 6 season. Looking at the stats from their first meeting its a wonder we were even in the contest. Having said that, that is what is great about College football [just ask UCLA] and why I love the game. On any given day..........

Thats not my point though. This is a team that isn’t nearly as good as they have been and this was a big game for UNT, who is supposed to be 2nd best in Conference, that they should’ve definitely won. Instead they once again play a big game and shit the bed under Littrell and hes now 1-6 vs UAB. Its a tale as old as time

Thought for a bit there might be a reason to keep him despite my better judgment, and now i see thats not the case

Pellom · November 14, 2022

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

I could be wrong, but I do think there’s a disconnect between what fans think is needed for him to keep his job vs. where Wren is actually setting the bar. I think Baker is looking for any excuse to keep him, not the other way around.

If this were true, they would have rushed a contract extension through as soon as they could have.

I don’t think Wren is leaning in either direction at this point.

Beating UTSA and winning a conference title would be such an outlier result that an extension would be warranted.

Beating Rice is not an outlier result. Losing to Rice and therefore losing the opportunity to play in the championship game would mean termination, in my opinion.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Pellom

cousin oliver · November 14, 2022

Pure speculation on my part, but doesn't Wren want to make a hire of his own? He has not made a football hire at the FBS level and it seems to me that is something he needs to do not just because Littrell isn't the answer but also because he needs a top notch football hire to pad his resume? Just seems like even if Seth wins the Rice game that is a game he was supposed to win.

If somehow Seth is able to win the C-USA championship I imagine the only way Wren will extend is on a very short (22 years?) time period with a tiny buyout.

UNTcrazy727 · November 14, 2022

40 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

It's the same exact situation as last year. I think if NT had lost to UTSA, and went without bowl eligibility, Littrell would have been gone.

The only difference is that this time, we'd have hardware, not just bragging rights over spoiling a perfect season.

EDIT: And just be ready for the built-in bowl game loss excuse of: "If KD Davis had played, we would have won!!!1!!1!!". Just like Torrey last year.

So its not the same exact situation lol

That's a pretty damn big difference

Green Otaku · November 14, 2022

1 hour ago, wardly said:

UAB is playing pretty well. They lost to WK by 3, and in double overtime to UTSA with their backup QB.The Blazers have lost 5 games by a total of 27 points.At 5&5, their next 2 games are LSU and LA. Tech. Assuming they beat the Bulldogs they are bowl bound at 6 & 6. UNT should beat Rice and move to 7 &5, but lose again to UTSA for a 7 & 6 season. Looking at the stats from their first meeting its a wonder we were even in the contest. Having said that, that is what is great about College football [just ask UCLA] and why I love the game. On any given day..........

This just shows SL can't win the tough games. Outside of WKU there hasn't been a game that he should lose, but won instead. One solid win and loses to UNLV, Memphis, SMU, UTSA, and UAB. Just think about that, it's not a good outlook for the future.

Multiply this over multiple years and you can sum up this era.

gordo nation · November 14, 2022

Simple, he's gotta win a conference championship... That is the ONLY justification I can see for an extension IMO. His entire tenure here at UNT has been "just enough to appear competitive." His absolute lack of postseason hardware has to change THIS DECEMBER.

meangreenfaninno · November 14, 2022

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

However, as atrocious as this conference is, NT is still poised to make the CCG. Littrell simply can't be fired until that game is lost.

You say that but how will you feel next year when we we get blown out in the first games and are stuck with him for another 5 years?? I mean come on man, you know that isn't fair to the fans.

MeanGreenTexan · November 14, 2022

2 minutes ago, meangreenfaninno said:

You say that but how will you feel next year when we we get blown out in the first games and are stuck with him for another 5 years?? I mean come on man, you know that isn't fair to the fans.

I never said anything about 5 years, that's for sure.

But if NT wins against Rice, are you going to fire him out from under the team before the championship game?
...
If NT wins the championship game, are you going to fire him then?
...
If NT wins the bowl game, are you going to fire him then?

When is the correct time to fire him?

southsideguy · November 14, 2022

SL now 41 on the hot seat coach list and rising.

NT80 · November 14, 2022

5 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

I could be wrong, but I do think there’s a disconnect between what fans think is needed for him to keep his job vs. where Wren is actually setting the bar. I think Baker is looking for any excuse to keep him, not the other way around.

Seth should have been gone last season after the Bowl loss to a lame Miami-OH. Lack of two seasons worth of buyout $$ apparently was the issue then.

Wren didn't hire Seth, but Wren's job, from a P5 promotion standpoint, depends on Seth's job performance. Seth doing bad, makes the whole program look bad (football being the premier sport), which makes Wren look bad.

NorthTexasWeLove · November 14, 2022

55 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I never said anything about 5 years, that's for sure.

But if NT wins against Rice, are you going to fire him out from under the team before the championship game?
...
If NT wins the championship game, are you going to fire him then?
...
If NT wins the bowl game, are you going to fire him then?

When is the correct time to fire him?

WB certainly has a checklist of needed accomplishments at this point in SL's tenure for WB to retain SL. A number of games needed to win. Bowl eligibility. CUSA champ appearance or win. Bowl win. Recruiting ranking. Etc. Etc. There's no telling what's all on that list. But the moment he can't mark off at bare minimum 51% of them, he needs to be fired regardless of what it's before.

untjim1995 · November 14, 2022

21 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Seth should have been gone last season after the Bowl loss to a lame Miami-OH. Lack of two seasons worth of buyout $$ apparently was the issue then.

Wren didn't hire Seth, but Wren's job, from a P5 promotion standpoint, depends on Seth's job performance. Seth doing bad, makes the whole program look bad (football being the premier sport), which makes Wren look bad.

I was clearly told on here that money was there and that was not the reason SL kept his job...even though one of our biggest BMDs here loves him "like a son".

It's almost as if it was rather obvious that this was wholly a money decision, which is not what others want to believe here.

rcade · November 14, 2022

I hope that Littrell still has to prove something this season to avoid getting fired.

If he wins the conference or a bowl game I expect he'll be back next year.

MeanGreenTexan · November 15, 2022

9 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

So its not the same exact situation lol

That's a pretty damn big difference

Oh, I missed this earlier, but yes, in the grand scheme, we’d be stuck in the same place: getting boat-raced in non-conference, then winning in a terrible CUSA.

Dickey got canned after winning a TON of hardware. Why was it justified over & over? “Because the SBC is the worst conference in FBS! It’s like being the shiniest turd!” Fast forward almost 20 years and you can say the same thing about CUSA, except Littrell would only have 1 trophy.

AAC =/= CUSA. That has been proven pretty clearly this season. We have to be better.

NT80 · November 15, 2022

11 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

This just shows SL can't win the tough games. Outside of WKU there hasn't been a game that he should lose, but won instead. One solid win and loses to UNLV, Memphis, SMU, UTSA, and UAB. Just think about that, it's not a good outlook for the future.

Multiply this over multiple years and you can sum up this era.

Losses to UNLV, Smut, and now UAB were blowouts. These are all non-ranked G5 teams.

The fanbase is dissolving. It's time for Wren to lead again...tell Seth goodbye and hire his own head coach.

Greenrex · November 15, 2022

Maybe Bye Week could be Bye-Bye Week.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Greenrex

Cr1028 · November 15, 2022

15 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Oh, I missed this earlier, but yes, in the grand scheme, we’d be stuck in the same place: getting boat-raced in non-conference, then winning in a terrible CUSA.

Dickey got canned after winning a TON of hardware. Why was it justified over & over? “Because the SBC is the worst conference in FBS! It’s like being the shiniest turd!” Fast forward almost 20 years and you can say the same thing about CUSA, except Littrell would only have 1 trophy.

AAC =/= CUSA. That has been proven pretty clearly this season. We have to be better.

Dickey’s hardware came befor Troy and FAU joined the Sun Belt. He lost to each during the 26 game conference streak. If you pull UTSA and UAB, we’d be king of the conference right now.