What triggers a Seth Extension in your mind?

Dannymacfan · October 31, 2022

I would be ok with it as well so long as we could keep the assistants as is and that would include Phil Bennett resigning for another couple of years. I also would like to see Patrick Cobb and Quinn Shanbour get a raise.

untbowler · October 31, 2022

he wins out extension for 2 yrs, no salary raise though

greenminer · October 31, 2022

11 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I think this would probably drive a lot of fans away for good

I don't think the fans we need think that way. Their interest gets diverted when North Texas loses, fur shure, but they aren't emotionally invested in a way that means they want to hate certain coaches or admins. Most of the fans we need just want to have a reason to believe a UNT game will be fun. So, just win.

El Paso Eagle · October 31, 2022

7 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Who?

Most fans want a winner and if Littrell wins out; NT will gain fans not the opposite.

"Most" fans want a school and coach with a history on winning and being at least competitive against "good" teams and realize this is happening with probably the weakest schedule Seth has ever played. Probably why so many UNT alums follow other schools. "Most" fans are not satisfied with one good season every 2-4 years. "Most" fans realize a lot of othe schools pay a lot less for coaches with better records.

MeanGreenTexan · October 31, 2022

42 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

If NT finishes second in the conference and they certainly should at this point, Littrell will be offered a new contract.

It will also be possible at that point that he is offered a better contract. Those thinking that if he wins out including the bowl game that NT will dictate the terms are badly mistaken.

Then you're saying Wren Baker did not learn from this happening 3 years ago after a 9-win season and flirtations with KSSt, only to see Graham Harrell leave after the ink dried, and our offense going into the toilet for 3 years.

I don't think he'd be out of line asking Littrell to prove it in the AAC on a little extension ...with a decent likelihood he'd be doing so without Bloesch and/or Bennett.

If NT "finishes second in the conference", Baker will still have Littrell by the nuts. He can dictate whatever terms he wants, despite however hard Jimmy Sexton tries to negotiate (and he's good, so he'll make it as hard as he can).
And if Littrell balks, he can either leave on his own (voiding a buyout), or get bought out so Baker can bring in who he wants.
If NT happens to win the Conference Championship, that's a different story. But it also opens the door for him to be hired away.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 31, 2022

2 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

8-5 with bowl trophy. Nothing less.

Check this.

He can ONLY lose one more regular season game to make the CUSA champ game. So, in foresight, he has to make the CUSA champ game. He has to win his bowl game. So, hypothetically, there will be 14 games played this season. With that knowledge, I think winning out, losing the CUSA Champ game, and winning the bowl is the only logical way to extend him. Which would mean keeping him. But you can't coach with just a year on contract. Coaches target that in recruiting. So...

9-5 WITH a bowl trophy. Nothing less. Otherwise, we have to move on. College football is about trajectory. 7-7 or even 8-6 is a sour taste in year 7. Momentum is dead at that point. HOWEVER, a 9-win season and a bowl trophy stirs the mojo pot and gets recruiting back up and running. Nevertheless, other fundamental changes also need to take place.

GMG

NorthTexasWeLove · October 31, 2022

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

If NT finishes second in the conference and they certainly should at this point, Littrell will be offered a new contract.

It will also be possible at that point that he is offered a better contract. Those thinking that if he wins out including the bowl game that NT will dictate the terms are badly mistaken.

That does not present leverage for him. All leverage is on the side of Wren Baker. Accept terms or walk. There is a 0% chance Seth Littrell is being hired away. Z.E.R.O. That is the only leverage coaches have. Since we know that there is 0% (and even if there was a 50% chance, WHO CARES. UNT is on the verge of relieving him of his duties), he has no say in the matter. If he wants to continue to be the head coach of an FBS D1 university then he can sign on the dictated dotted line or beat his feet. And that is no disrespect, that is business.

Dannymacfan · October 31, 2022

7 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Check this.

He can ONLY lose one more regular season game to make the CUSA champ game. So, in foresight, he has to make the CUSA champ game. He has to win his bowl game. So, hypothetically, there will be 14 games played this season. With that knowledge, I think winning out, losing the CUSA Champ game, and winning the bowl is the only logical way to extend him. Which would mean keeping him. But you can't coach with just a year on contract. Coaches target that in recruiting. So...

9-5 WITH a bowl trophy. Nothing less. Otherwise, we have to move on. College football is about trajectory. 7-7 or even 8-6 is a sour taste in year 7. Momentum is dead at that point. HOWEVER, a 9-win season and a bowl trophy stirs the mojo pot and gets recruiting back up and running. Nevertheless, other fundamental changes also need to take place.

GMG

This seems tough but I like the statement it makes to the new conference and the rest of the football world. We have a great job here and even without hitting on all cylinders we can win our conference and play pretty darn good football. There will be plenty of interest in this job!

GRN-WHT · October 31, 2022

Nothing.

Seth is 4-15 against non-conference G5.

It’s time to find the coach that can win championships in the AAC.

kj86 · October 31, 2022

Not saying I agree with it, but 8 wins gets him extended.

MeanGreenGlory · October 31, 2022

Year	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Bowl/playoffs
North Texas Mean Green (Conference USA) (2016–present)
2016	North Texas	5–8	3–5	4th (West)	L Heart of Dallas
2017	North Texas	9–5	7–1	1st (West)	L New Orleans
2018	North Texas	9–4	5–3	T–2nd (West)	L New Mexico
2019	North Texas	4–8	3–5	T–4th (West)
2020	North Texas	4–6	3–4	4th (West)	L Myrtle Beach
2021	North Texas	6–7	5–3	3rd (West)	L Frisco Football Classic
2022	North Texas	5–4	4–1
North Texas:		42–42	30–22

Seth has done a good job of raising the level of North Texas football from dumpster fire status to average.

If we were coming off of back-to-back 9-win seasons again, I'd say provide an extension if he won the conference game. But we're coming off 4-8, 4-6, and 6-7 in CUSA with zero bowl wins and no conference championships.

It's time to bring in someone new who can take us from average to being a top competitor for the AAC championship year after year.

El Paso Eagle · October 31, 2022

1 hour ago, GRN-WHT said:

Nothing.

Seth is 4-15 against non-conference G5.

It’s time to find the coach that can win championships in the AAC.

NT80 · October 31, 2022

1 hour ago, GRN-WHT said:

Nothing.

Seth is 4-15 against non-conference G5.

It’s time to find the coach that can win championships in the AAC.

This.

Some of those losing non-conference G5 games have been against our future AAC opponents.

Son of Spiriki · October 31, 2022

I think it has to be a conference championship game win and a bowl game win, and even then, I'm not going to sweeten the deal too much. I'm OK with incentives in the deal, but not a big increase in base salary.

To be clear, I don't want to extend him at all, but if we do extend him, there need to be lots of incentives instead of a base salary and the only way that conversation takes place is after a conference championship game win and a bowl win.

gordo nation · October 31, 2022

Here's the thing... UNT is still a group of 5 school. Hiring new head coaches at G5 schools is a VERY risky task that often times consists of luck. While Seth definitely hasn't performed at a level that really warrants a contract expansion, I am worried that firing Seth will set potentially set UNT back into 2015 levels of terrible.

UNT is spending WAY too much on Seth in my opinion, but at the very least the man has kept UNT competitive for bowl game appearances every single year he has been at UNT. Judging from UNT's history, I really worry about flipping the switch on Littrell.

That being said, I think either one of these two scenarios would warrant an extension

1: 8-5 season with BOWL WIN

2: 8-5 season with CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP

UNT needs some sort of postseason success with Littrell. If that happens, I would be a supporter of a contract extension

Remember he is only 44.

El Paso Eagle · October 31, 2022

2 minutes ago, Son of Spiriki said:

I think it has to be a conference championship game win and a bowl game win, and even then, I'm not going to sweeten the deal too much. I'm OK with incentives in the deal, but not a big increase in base salary.

To be clear, I don't want to extend him at all, but if we do extend him, there need to be lots of incentives instead of a base salary and the only way that conversation takes place is after a conference championship game win and a bowl win.

This would be a good situation. Should also have a UNT friendly buyout.

meangreenfaninno · October 31, 2022

I am 100% behind Seth and very pleased with this run the team seems to be on. That said, Wren has to look at the whole picture. He did not hire Seth and he really needs a big FB hire to help his own job prospects.

Additionally, and most importantly, Seth must - absolutely must have to answer for the sins of the past. One example of this is the SMU game. SMU is not good, yet Seth allowed them to ruin our attendance for the rest of the year by making them look like Alabama early in the season. That one game hurt UNT in so many ways it is truly indescribable and Seth has to pay a price for it. Seth should not be able to sweep these lost opportunities under the rug and pretend like it didn’t happen. Another example is his QB choices. Jason Martin, JD Head, Grant Gunnell, Kade Pearson, Armani Gilmore the list goes on forever. Heck even Mason Fine had no other offers and Seth didn’t even recruit him it was Grant Harrell!

Edited October 31, 2022 by meangreenfaninno

MeanGreenTexan · October 31, 2022

Just now, El Paso Eagle said:

This would be a good situation. Should also have a UNT friendly buyout.

If you demand a UNT-friendly buyout if Littrell fails, you'd have to include a Littrell-friendly buyout if he happens to succeed.

Hedging bets works both ways. But just based on what we've seen, and knowing Bennett is probably gone after this season, I'm ok with this risk, because again, if Littrell succeeds and leaves for a P5 job, there will be a ton of capable suitors knocking on Wren's door looking to take over the program not needing a rebuild.

MeanGreenTexan · October 31, 2022

6 minutes ago, meangreenfaninno said:

I am 100% behind Seth and very pleased with this run the team seems to be on. That said, Wren has to look at the whole picture. He did not hire Seth and he really needs a big FB hire to help his own job prospects.

Additionally, and most importantly, Seth must - absolutely must have to answer for the sins of the past. One example of this is the SMU game. SMU is not good, yet Seth allowed them to ruin our attendance for the rest of the year by making them look like Alabama early in the season. That one game hurt UNT in so many ways it is truly indescribable and Seth has to pay a price for it. Seth should not be able to sweep these lost opportunities under the rug and pretend like it didn’t happen. Another example is his QB choices. Jason Martin, JD Head, Grant Gunnell, Kade Pearson, Armani Gilmore the list goes on forever. Heck even Mason Fine had no other offers and Seth didn’t even recruit him it was Grant Harrell!

Me looking up who half of these dudes are:

Salsa_Verde · October 31, 2022

Probably just a conference championship appearance. I still don’t trust SL enough to not lose a game he should win.

El Paso Eagle · October 31, 2022

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

If you demand a UNT-friendly buyout if Littrell fails, you'd have to include a Littrell-friendly buyout if he happens to succeed.

Hedging bets works both ways. But just based on what we've seen, and knowing Bennett is probably gone after this season, I'm ok with this risk, because again, if Littrell succeeds and leaves for a P5 job, there will be a ton of capable suitors knocking on Wren's door looking to take over the program not needing a rebuild.

That works. I saw today where the buyout for Freeze at Liberty is only 3 million if he gets a P5 offer. No problem having it a win/win buyout. Would also be more supportive if Seth agreed and the extension was like the one Michigan did for JH and give him a chance to make even more. That seems to have motivated JH.

El Paso Eagle · October 31, 2022

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Me looking up who half of these dudes are:

Maybe these were the players we meant to sign?

MeanGreenTexan · October 31, 2022

Just now, El Paso Eagle said:

That works. I saw today where the buyout for Freeze at Liberty is only 3 million if he gets a P5 offer. No problem having it a win/win buyout. Would also be more supportive if Seth agreed and the extension was like the one Michigan did for JH and give him a chance to make even more. That seems to have motivated JH.

I doubt Sexton would allow Seth to sign a heavy-incentivized deal, even if success would mean making 1.5X what he's making now.

NT80 · October 31, 2022

16 minutes ago, gordo nation said:

Here's the thing... UNT is still a group of 5 school. Hiring new head coaches at G5 schools is a VERY risky task that often times consists of luck. While Seth definitely hasn't performed at a level that really warrants a contract expansion, I am worried that firing Seth will set potentially set UNT back into 2015 levels of terrible.

UNT is spending WAY too much on Seth in my opinion, but at the very least the man has kept UNT competitive for bowl game appearances every single year he has been at UNT. Judging from UNT's history, I really worry about flipping the switch on Littrell.

That being said, I think either one of these two scenarios would warrant an extension

1: 8-5 season with BOWL WIN

2: 8-5 season with CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP

UNT needs some sort of postseason success with Littrell. If that happens, I would be a supporter of a contract extension

Remember he is only 44.

We must remember the majority of Seth's wins at NT have come against FCS teams and bottom half of CUSA every year. His failure to compete against OOC G5s and upper level CUSA is very telling and not extension-worthy to this point. Win the Conference, and make a statement in a Bowl against a Quality opponent, and then maybe we'll talk.

El Paso Eagle · October 31, 2022

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I doubt Sexton would allow Seth to sign a heavy-incentivized deal, even if success would mean making 1.5X what he's making now.

Then you walk away. If Wren allows himself to be put in this situation maybe's he not what we need