Top 5 Reasons Seth Must Stay/Go

Tom McKrackin · October 25, 2022

Reasons he must stay

1. He's run a clean program

2. Number of bowl games

3. Overall winning record places him just below Hayden Fry

4. Never pointed the finger at UNT or the fans

5. Players like him

Reason he must go

1. Grant McCasland

2. Recruiting

3. Bowl record

4. Winning % in big games

5. Not enough of a salesman / communicator

p_phelps · October 26, 2022

23 minutes ago, Tom McKrackin said:

Reasons he must stay

1. He's run a clean program

2. Number of bowl games

3. Overall winning record places him just below Hayden Fry

4. Never pointed the finger at UNT or the fans

5. Players like him

Reason he must go

1. Grant McCasland

2. Recruiting

3. Bowl record

4. Winning % in big games

5. Not enough of a salesman / communicator

He has a losing record 41-42

KingDL1 · October 26, 2022

1 hour ago, Tom McKrackin said:

Reasons he must stay

1. He's run a clean program

2. Number of bowl games

3. Overall winning record places him just below Hayden Fry - WELL not really there are several others with better records and I think Seth has a losing record at the moment:
J. W. St. Clair
Theron Fouts
Jack Sisco (who in 13 seasons had a better record than Fry)
Odus Mitchell

https://americanfootballdatabase.fandom.com/wiki/North_Texas_Mean_Green_football#Head_coaches

4. Never pointed the finger at UNT or the fans

5. Players like him - I hear otherwise all the time.

Reason he must go

1. Grant McCasland

2. Recruiting

3. Bowl record

4. Winning % in big games

5. Not enough of a salesman / communicator -Yes Yes Yes

TheColonyEagle · October 26, 2022

1 hour ago, Tom McKrackin said:

Reasons he must stay

1. He's run a clean program

2. Number of bowl games

3. Overall winning record places him just below Hayden Fry

4. Never pointed the finger at UNT or the fans

5. Players like him

Reason he must go

1. None of those 5 reasons above are reasons to keep an FBS Head Coach if you’re serious about running a legit FBS program

FIFY

bstnsportsfan3 · October 26, 2022

1 hour ago, p_phelps said:

He has a losing record 41-42

His name is James? this changes everything

Mike Jackson · October 26, 2022

On 10/25/2022 at 6:37 PM, Tom McKrackin said:

Reasons he must stay

1. He's run a clean program

2. Number of bowl games

3. Overall winning record places him just below Hayden Fry

4. Never pointed the finger at UNT or the fans

5. Players like him

Reason he must go

1. Grant McCasland

2. Recruiting

3. Bowl record

4. Winning % in big games

5. Not enough of a salesman / communicator

Are you trollin'? If so you deserve an A+. Hayden Fry - awesome hall of Fame coach but shouldn't be the standard here. Odus Mitchell should be the measuring stick.

Mitchell 10 conference titles, 122-85-9 and never took another head coaching job after leaving UNT. His regime recruited Abner Hayes, Leon King, and Mean Joe Green

Fry 40-23-3 at UNT. This was a relatively short stop in his legendary career. He didn't Intergrate UNT Football. He is an IOWA legend and the majority of his time at Texas colleges were a other schools chiefly SMU.

We need to stop the Fry comparisons as some sort of measuring stick. It was for him his right to leave, and it was logical for him to leave but his leaving was self serving and wasn’t good for UNT. And he should never be mentioned in the pantheon of UNT head coaches at the expense not recognizing Odus Mitchell as the absolute standard here. I wasn't alive for either of these coaches tenures at UNT and I am no spring chicken. So looking at their records here and other achievements here, It is very odd to me that Fry and not Mitchell looms over this program as the head coach icon. It is wrong!

Edited October 27, 2022 by Mike Jackson

ntmeangreen11 · October 26, 2022

Just be prepared to be sold on the fact that we only have a couple senior starters and how many players from the two deep are returning in 2023 when we finish 6-6 and no news of a firing comes down the following week.

MeanGreenTexan · October 26, 2022

8 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

Are you trollin'? If so you deserve an A+. Hayden Fry - awesome hall of Fame coach but shouldn't be the standard here. Odus Mitchell should be the measuring stick.

Mitchell 10 conference titles, 122-85-9 and never took another head coaching job after leaving UNT. His regime recruited Abner Hayes, Leon King, and Mean Joe Green

Fry 40-23-3 at UNT. This was a relatively short stop in his legendary career. He didn't Intergrated UNT Football. He is an IOWA legend and the majority of his time at Texas colleges were a other schools chiefly SMU.

We need to stop the Fry comparisons as some sort of measuring stick. It was for him his right to leave, and it was logical for him to leave but his leaving was self serving and thewasn’t good for UNT. And he should never be mentioned in the pantheon of UNT hit coaches over at the expense not recognizing Odus Mitchell as the absolute standard here. I wasn't alive for either of these coaches tenures at UNT and I am no spring chicken. It is very odd to me that Fry and not Mitchell looms over this program as the head coach icon. It is wrong!

There's nothing wrong with extoling both Mitchell & Fry. If a head coach uses North Texas as a stepping stone to become a legend somewhere else, that's no skin off my back. Win while you're here. Get us in the polls while you're here. Do great things while you're here! ...just like Fry. A realistic "standard" for us.

Facing facts, we're WAY MORE LIKELY to have another Hayden Fry (successful here for 6 years) than we are to having another Odus Mitchell (successful here for 20+ years). So if we want to hold Littrell, or any other coach to a "standard", it should be Fry's first.
If that guy can meet Fry's standard... then choses to hang around and make UNT great (like a Patterson, Snyder, Beamer, Bowden, etc...) then we're extremely lucky and we can compare to Mitchell.

UNTcrazy727 · October 26, 2022

1. Three straight losing seasons

Nothing else really matters.

El Paso Eagle · October 26, 2022

It's a rather simple choice. It a boils down to this question - Do you believe we can rejuvenate the fanbase and win Championships in the American Conference with Seth's leadership? Yes? You are in favor of keeping him. No? We move on.

We have to stop keeping coaches who are not winning Championships.

Edited October 26, 2022 by El Paso Eagle

UNT Texas Hooligan · October 26, 2022

Inability to develop a decent QB since Fine should be one of the reasons to go too

PlummMeanGreen · October 26, 2022

What kinda’ surprises me with the “GMG.com personnel in charge of (possibly) hiring a new coach” is how they don’t list overall attendance on their job description list.
Stadium attendance (or lack thereof) is part of a list of criteria on many P5 school’s.
Some NCAA D1 FBS head football coaches get bonuses if their school shows marked improvement at the turnstiles.

zenhuddy · October 26, 2022

My humble 2 cents - If we look at expectations Seth has laid out for us all I think it was 1) Compete for Conf Championship, 2) win Conf Championship, 3) complete and win bowls games.
Have these expectations been achieved - I say we have fallen short.
Is Seth a good coach - I’d say yes he is and probably goes back to OC’ing on a P5 school he’d do well and I say that because he did this before and remember one key ingredient - they were not his recruits. This might be a key element here in that we are not bridging the recruit element. I grant that recruiting at TCU vs UNT is an apple and an Orange so it’s much tougher in all fairness. But if you look at the model at UTSA they are recruiting the hell out of south Texas talent - we should be doing the same here, when I here Steve S from Texas is at the Collins football field here two weeks ago and hear the comments they never see Seth there that seems wrong - we are so deep in talent here it’s ridiculous.
I wish Seth the very best and wanted him to be The Man here but for whatever reasons it’s not happening (and we have no idea what limits they have placed on him to be fair) but regardless in 7 yrs you can get a program moving and we are looked on .500 football and we’ll never get 25-30k attendance with what we’re are putting out on the field.
So it’s about the administration- what do you guys want? I think it’s clear what the avg football fan wants and we are not getting it.

UNTcrazy727 · October 26, 2022

47 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

Inability to develop a decent QB since Fine should be one of the reasons to go too

It will ultimately be Littrell's downfall. If we just had a consistent QB we go 8-4 last year (extra wins La Tech and Liberty) and this year we're likely 6-2. Firing Littrell wouldn't even be a discussion right now.

MrAlien · October 26, 2022

Hes not great but he's not terrible either, I think he coaches above the abilities of his players... but who is the alternative? what direction is the university really willing to go in hiring a new coach?

p_phelps · October 26, 2022

5 hours ago, MrAlien said:

Hes not great but he's not terrible either, I think he coaches above the abilities of his players... but who is the alternative? what direction is the university really willing to go in hiring a new coach?

A bunch of proven HCs are out there.

jtm0097 · October 26, 2022

Seth will probably go be an offensive analyst/OC in waiting at TCU with his buddy Sonny. After a few successful seasons, he will go take over a program like Arkansas State or Texas State.

Edited October 26, 2022 by jtm0097

Cr1028 · October 26, 2022

1 hour ago, p_phelps said:

A bunch of proven HCs are out there.

Proven what? If they are available, there is a reason.

greenminer · October 26, 2022

13 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Proven what? If they are available, there is a reason.

proven that they can succeed, fail, take vacations, get fired, and quit.

wardly · October 27, 2022

23 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

It will ultimately be Littrell's downfall. If we just had a consistent QB we go 8-4 last year (extra wins La Tech and Liberty) and this year we're likely 6-2. Firing Littrell wouldn't even be a discussion right now.

Agreed, and I really don't understand his inability to attract an above average quarterback.

97and03 · October 27, 2022

On 10/26/2022 at 11:59 AM, UNTcrazy727 said:

It will ultimately be Littrell's downfall. If we just had a consistent QB we go 8-4 last year (extra wins La Tech and Liberty) and this year we're likely 6-2. Firing Littrell wouldn't even be a discussion right now.

A more accurate QB beats UTSA and Memphis for sure.