DRC Sunday column: UNT fans may hate the idea of it, but UTSA is the rival the Mean Green have long needed and now have

[UNTcrazy727]

27 minutes ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

While I agree with this currently, I think potential is there.  If UTSA continues to get national recognition and remains competitive, their proximity and competition for recruiting could make them a good natural rival.  The same reasons hold with SMU.  In both cases, teams need to be consistently competitive with each other.  We currently lack that consistency.  

This is flat out false when it comes to UTSA. The series has been super competitive with both teams taking a turn playing spoiler (UTSA in 2013 and UNT last year). 

ITS A RIVALRY! EMBRACE IT! 

[Old Denton]

The Brett Vito Trilogy:

"UTSA is North Texas's biggest rival ever"

"Derek Thompson was the best Mean Green QB ever"

"Todd Dodge"

[greenminer]

MTSU and NMSU rivalries were more fun. They felt genuine.

 

UTSA’s feels manufactured. Yes, there have been competition, spoilers, and titles on the line, but it’s also been pushed on and engrained through repetitive messaging from both board moderators and Vito. Board mods who desperately wanted something to fill the void we were in when we couldn’t be competitive with SMU, while simultaneously MUTS  fell off the map.

I feel like a rivalry should not have to be pushed and debated. It should grow and occur naturally, feeling understood and agreed upon across an entire base.  Maybe we won’t ever see that anymore, with so many people able to talk and argue so instantly via SM and message boards. No matter how dumb and meaningless I think UTSA is, there is a small army of, like, 5 of you on Twitter embracing #UTSAhateweek. And running with all the smack talk you get from the birds.

im gonna guess that those 5 are younger fans, that don’t have the perspective of seeing several generations of UTSA, revealed through MUTS and NMSU. it’s the same thing.

SMU is different, and I think being in the same conference with them is going to be the dynamic it has needed to really grow.

Edited October 18, 2022 by greenminer

[meanJewGreen]

7 minutes ago, greenminer said:

MTSU and NMSU rivalries were more fun. They felt genuine.

 

UTSA’s feels manufactured. Yes, there have been competition, spoilers, and titles on the line, but it’s also been pushed on and engrained through repetitive messaging from both board moderators and Vito. Board mods who desperately wanted something to fill the void we were in when we couldn’t be competitive with SMU, while simultaneously MUTS  fell off the map.

I feel like a rivalry should not have to be pushed and debated. It should grow and occur naturally, feeling understood and agreed upon across an entire base.  Maybe we won’t ever see that anymore, with so many people able to talk and argue so instantly via SM and message boards. No matter how dumb and meaningless I think UTSA is, there is a small army of, like, 5 of you on Twitter embracing #UTSAhateweek. And running with all the smack talk you get from the birds.

im gonna guess that those 5 are younger fans, that don’t have the perspective of seeing several generations of UTSA, revealed through MUTS and NMSU. it’s the same thing.

SMU is different, and I think being in the same conference with them is going to be the dynamic it has needed to really grow.

SMU is not different. We've gotten our butts whooped by them the past 3 years and 7 of the past nine. We dont compete too much in other sports and they dont care nor do they draw well. I know we want them to be a rival but they dont care

UTSA is different. Series is 5-4, there have been blowouts the last 3 years but each game has brought some significance of wrecking the others season. We also compete against each other in other sports- we lead all of em but its pretty close I think. Theyre the ones that will fill Apogee when they come- not SMU, their fans support the program and theyre a big public institution too. 

I'd love SMU to be a rival but we have to win more and they have to care too. UTSA is a fun rival - let's embrace it. 

 

 

[Cr1028]

2 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

From the reaction of UTSA fans, their rival is us. 

I’d agree with that. We can choose to scoff at it or embrace it. I’m for leaning in to it. 

[VideoEagle]

27 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

I’d agree with that. We can choose to scoff at it or embrace it. I’m for leaning in to it. 

Back when the WAC was talking about admitting SWTSU and UTSA, I was very strongly against the idea. UTSA had done nothing to justify moving up! But once the WAC admitted them, they were going to by FBS schools no matter what anyone else thought so I changed to "Why fight it, it is a fait accompli." 

Ever since, I've noticed post after post from people hating the very idea UTSA was playing football, posts hoping they would lose every game they play, posts mocking their promotions, their location, their facilities. What is see is exactly the same vitriol as between Texas and OU or Michigan and Ohio or USC and UCLA. The lady doth protest too much, methinks. 

If they ARE NOT a rival, then we would never have the level of comments! 

It is very possible to have more than just one single rival in college football!

Edited October 18, 2022 by VideoEagle

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, meanJewGreen said:

I'd love SMU to be a rival but we have to win more and they have to care too. 

This is what is going to happen in the AAC, contingent on our next football hire.

Watch how they feel about us if/when we start winning more than once in a blue moon.

 

On 10/16/2022 at 9:30 PM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Start beating SMU consistently and see how fast and how much they start hating us. Until then, they have no reason but to view us as the red headed stepchild. 

yep.  All this series has lacked is conference standing implications, and a few more UNT wins.   Could boil into something much more meaningful than this temporary hate you have, @meanJewGreen for another school that's so far away, you can fit some Central American countries between us.

[meanJewGreen]

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

This is what is going to happen in the AAC, contingent on our next football hire.

Watch how they feel about us if/when we start winning more than once in a blue moon.

 

yep.  All this series has lacked is conference standing implications, and a few more UNT wins.   Could boil into something much more meaningful than this temporary hate you have, @meanJewGreen for another school that's so far away, you can fit some Central American countries between us.

I still am one to believe that we dont end up sharing a conference with them unfortunately. They'll find a way out. 

Also, you can have more than 1 rival. Helps with excitement throughout the season. 

 

[ntmeangreen11]

While we're up in arms about people who've had their jobs for far too long I can't help but wish we had a different beat writer. Softball questions, very little access to team besides weekly press conferences everyone can watch, no inside sources, and a view of where North Texas should be that's based on the past.

 

[UNTcrazy727]

11 minutes ago, meanJewGreen said:

I still am one to believe that we dont end up sharing a conference with them unfortunately. They'll find a way out. 

Also, you can have more than 1 rival. Helps with excitement throughout the season. 

 

Maybe they'll find a way out eventually. But just from a timing standpoint, we're going to share a conference for at least 2 years. 

[keith]

This ready-made rivalry was probably the brainchild of everyone's favorite, Judy MacLeod, announced as such before we  played a single game against them and then promoted obsessively ever since by Vito.  Does he have some connection with UTSA we don't know about?

[greenminer]

2 hours ago, meanJewGreen said:

Also, you can have more than 1 rival. Helps with excitement throughout the season. 

Yes, like we did with NMSU, MTSU, and SMU.

[Hunter Green]

On 10/16/2022 at 8:47 PM, Cr1028 said:

It is hard to manufacture a rivalry when only one half wants it. I’ve hated SMU as long as I’ve been following the Mean Green and most of them only care about TCU. The UTSA rivalry has developed naturally through competition.

If we could actually beat them once in awhile, they might start to care.

[MeanGreenTexan]

When you have to lead off your column title about a “rivalry” with, “UNT fans may hate it, but…”, it’s probably not a real thing.

And for those of you citing the lack of wins VS SMU as the reason we don’t have a rivalry with them….  EXACTLY!  Get a new staff in here that can get NT up to that level!  Don’t just settle for what’s mediocre: SL & UTSA “rivalry”.  
 

Not surprising that some of y’all banging the drum for Littrell are the same ones all excited about the “battle of the birds”.

 

[South Texas Green]

[untjim1995]

I just don’t get our fanbase. Until UTSA came around, absolutely nobody in this state cared about playing us…ever.

When we beat Tech, Baylor, or SMU, the rest of the state laughed at them for losing to us. Absolutely zero respect or care. And now, we act like UTSA hating us is not a rivalry…because we are so much older than them? I’m still in amazement that we are ANYONE’s Super Bowl. UTSA gives Apathy some competition for our biggest rivalry…that’s saying something.

Look, we did this to ourselves. That we are rivals with UTSA is because we gave up in the 80s and 90s, confirming to all of the SWC schools that we were spare and not anything to be concerned with. SMU ain’t never gonna look at us like we look at them until we beat them like they beat us…and even then, TCU will always be their rival. Would SMU care more about us if we could, you know, compete with them? Maybe…but getting our asses pounded before halftime every F’ing year doesn’t exactly create hatred and rivalry. It creates laughter and smugness. Ending an undefeated season or costing someone a championship creates hatred, though. And within that sentence, I’ve seen UTSA ruin our 2013 CUSA West title and we ruined their perfect season last year. Those are both examples of a rivalry, to me. And the Drive will forever be in UNT lore for greatness and for causing much UTSA pain.

[meangreenfaninno]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:51 AM, greenminer said:

don’t have the perspective of seeing several generations of UTSA, revealed through MUTS and NMSU.

NMSU?  Come on man that has to be a stretch.

[MeanGreenTexan]

8 hours ago, meangreenfaninno said:

NMSU?  Come on man that has to be a stretch.

Tell me you weren't a UNT fan in the early 2000’s without telling me you weren’t a UNT fan in the early 2000’s.

[Hunter Green]

8 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

I just don’t get our fanbase. Until UTSA came around, absolutely nobody in this state cared about playing us…ever.

When we beat Tech, Baylor, or SMU, the rest of the state laughed at them for losing to us. Absolutely zero respect or care. And now, we act like UTSA hating us is not a rivalry…because we are so much older than them? I’m still in amazement that we are ANYONE’s Super Bowl. UTSA gives Apathy some competition for our biggest rivalry…that’s saying something.

Look, we did this to ourselves. That we are rivals with UTSA is because we gave up in the 80s and 90s, confirming to all of the SWC schools that we were spare and not anything to be concerned with. SMU ain’t never gonna look at us like we look at them until we beat them like they beat us…and even then, TCU will always be their rival. Would SMU care more about us if we could, you know, compete with them? Maybe…but getting our asses pounded before halftime every F’ing year doesn’t exactly create hatred and rivalry. It creates laughter and smugness. Ending an undefeated season or costing someone a championship creates hatred, though. And within that sentence, I’ve seen UTSA ruin our 2013 CUSA West title and we ruined their perfect season last year. Those are both examples of a rivalry, to me. And the Drive will forever be in UNT lore for greatness and for causing much UTSA pain.

Absolutely correct. 

[greenminer]

12 hours ago, meangreenfaninno said:

NMSU?  Come on man that has to be a stretch.

No, it's not.  it's kinda wild to visit those old Rick Yeats photos, seeing Fouts, those old uniforms, and the Sun Belt crowds.  Much has changed.

But before we had The Drive to beat UTSA, we had the Miracle In The Desert. We had the heroics of Booger and Hickman in 2002.  We tore down goalposts after beating NMSU.  @PlummMeanGreen can probably dig up some photos.

*Nostalgia kicking in* IMO, Booger was bigger impact than Fine.  Fine was a great, HOF Quarterback.  Booger was a generational player that could not be contained or accounted for by any offensive line in the country, and easily one of the top 5 college players I've ever seen from any program.

Edited October 20, 2022 by greenminer

[untjim1995]

12 hours ago, meangreenfaninno said:

NMSU?  Come on man that has to be a stretch.

That’s much worse than considering UTSA a rival. NMSU is barely FBS… usually with UMass for worst program in FBS. We played in the worst conference back then (like now) and we beat NMSU one year to win that conference. NMSU lost and didn’t go to a bowl. That’s not a rival to 99.9% of the CFB world. NMSU joined the WAC in 2004, IIRC, meaning we shared a conference with them for about 9 years…which is exactly try the same time, so far, that we’ve been in a conference with UTSA.

[LitMedallion]

On 10/16/2022 at 8:08 PM, MeanGreen_MBA said:

I love having UTSA as a rival.  A great city to go to. Easy travel. Battle of the BIRDS

 

make it around T-giving a every year. 

THIS!!!!!!!  LITERALLY ALL OF THIS! Just far enough to make it a "trip", but oh so close enough for "familiarity breeds contempt" CUSA's issue was not following the SEC template. People can talk smack about cupcake week in the SEC, but no one and I mean no one talks smack about those known rivalries on the calendar at the same bat time and on the same bat channel the following week. 

Giving people the same time of year to look forward to every year is crucial in getting sideline fans into stadiums for "important games". 

[LitMedallion]

On 10/18/2022 at 11:20 AM, VideoEagle said:

It is very possible to have more than just one single rival in college football!

LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, Michigan, OSU all just checked into the check and nodded with approval of this statement.  It looks like others are waiting in queue to join. 🙂 

[UNTLifer]

49 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

That’s much worse than considering UTSA a rival. NMSU is barely FBS… usually with UMass for worst program in FBS. We played in the worst conference back then (like now) and we beat NMSU one year to win that conference. NMSU lost and didn’t go to a bowl. That’s not a rival to 99.9% of the CFB world. NMSU joined the WAC in 2004, IIRC, meaning we shared a conference with them for about 9 years…which is exactly try the same time, so far, that we’ve been in a conference with UTSA.

In their history, NMSU has us the fifth most times in their history.

NMU: 88 games

UTEP: 82 games

Utah St: 40 games

West TX A&M: 39 games

North Texas: 32 games

[Green Mean]

I didn't feel they were a rival in the beginning, but it has morphed into a rival because we've been conference mates for a while and there have been quite a few memorable games. It's at least happened organically which was not the case years ago.

We're allowed to have more than one rival. SMU is certainly a rival now if we weren't already for being in the same conference.