What is your standard?

emmitt01 · October 2, 2022

Since we perpetually do this dance of "this guy will be the one to finally wake the sleeping giant" when we hire a new coach, and then revert to "this guy couldn't coach pee wee flag football and might actually be the Zodiac Killer" when things go south, I want to know what success looks like to you. What do you honestly expect as the standard for a football coach at North Texas? Resist the urge to make some flippant comment like "better than Seth Littrell!" or "Not sucking." Take into account the facilities, resources, and history of North Texas and tell me what you think we should rationally expect a coach to bring here in the 2022 college football landscape.

If a guy came in here and asked you what you expect in order to be avoid the message board angry mob, what would you answer?

Edited October 2, 2022 by emmitt01

MeanGreen22 · October 2, 2022

I was flipping back and forth between bowl winner and conference champion. We have the makings to be in the running to win the conference on an annual basis but bowl winner would be step 1 in getting there

Edited October 2, 2022 by MeanGreen22

greenminer · October 2, 2022

Objectively, if you spend every year like the top spender in the league, you should compete every year for league championships.

EDIT: Take it a step further, GreenMiner, if your spending is in the T25, you should compete in the T25. Having said that, I've never bothered to look up where our budget stands on a national scale.

Edited October 2, 2022 by greenminer

UNTcrazy727 · October 2, 2022

1 minute ago, greenminer said:

Objectively, if you spend every year like the top spender in the league, you should compete every year for league championships.

Which is why I voted above .500 yearly. Saying a program has to win a conference championship in order for the season to be successful is insane.

VideoEagle · October 2, 2022

Being in the Conference championship game 3 out of 5 years and winning it at least 1 out of every 3 would be extremely successful. If a coach can do that, I say let them coach forever!

Do that and the Top 25 finishes will happen on a regular basis.

That also allows that every team has off years. And everyone has to rebuild every few years.

BigWillie · October 2, 2022

I am not sure if anyone saw the segment on GameDay about Kansas, but the sum of it was that they were bad for a decade and the floor of the B12, then finally turned a corner with the right coach.

They hired a coach every 3 years. Sound familiar?

Except maybe the budget and hiring a new coach.

greenminer · October 2, 2022

14 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Which is why I voted above .500 yearly. Saying a program has to win a conference championship in order for the season to be successful is insane.

When I answer conference championships, it means that we are in the running for a title consistently. It absolutely does not mean a season is a failure if we do not win a title.

greenminer · October 2, 2022

4 minutes ago, BigWillie said:

I am not sure if anyone saw the segment on GameDay about Kansas, but the sum of it was that they were bad for a decade and the floor of the B12, then finally turned a corner with the right coach.

They hired a coach every 3 years. Sound familiar?

Except maybe the budget and hiring a new coach.

KU bad for a decade? I can count the good seasons they've had in my lifetime on one hand.

UNT 90 Grad · October 2, 2022

I'm not satisfied with lurking around the middle of the pack of our conference, which is where we are and have been for a while. However, we aren't bottom dwellers. We need a steeper trajectory, but we aren't as far away as some make it sound. Comparing us with bottom dwellers is hyperbole. Some need to visit the way back machine to recall what that was like.

Nonetheless, criticism is good and shows folks care. I'd rather keep playing at Apogee Stadium than find us playing at Apathy Stadium.

Mike Jackson · October 2, 2022

22 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Which is why I voted above .500 yearly. Saying a program has to win a conference championship in order for the season to be successful is insane.

Until we step up to AAC that standard was far from insane. We hardly ever see juggernaut teams in our conference getting votes to be #25 in the nation. So yes last year with UTSA destroying the conference a conference championship standard was insane. But name me another year we had a juggernaut in our division. So a division championship is reasonable standard for a coach going into years, 5 and beyond. Of course you take into account major injuries or graduating seniors from a stacked successful championship team a year prior. If you goal is "successful" you will never be great. To really have this program turn the corner in attendance and regional/visibility they have to win consistently at about a 0.700 clip.

MeanGreen22 · October 2, 2022

28 minutes ago, BigWillie said:

I am not sure if anyone saw the segment on GameDay about Kansas, but the sum of it was that they were bad for a decade and the floor of the B12, then finally turned a corner with the right coach.

They hired a coach every 3 years. Sound familiar?

Except maybe the budget and hiring a new coach.

It’s easier to fire someone quickly when they’ve had no success. It’s much harder when your coach takes you bowling nearly every year. The bill comes due for all.

Mike Jackson · October 2, 2022

21 minutes ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

I'm not satisfied with lurking around the middle of the pack of our conference, which is where we are and have been for a while. However, we aren't bottom dwellers. We need a steeper trajectory, but we aren't as far away as some make it sound. Comparing us with bottom dwellers is hyperbole. Some need to visit the way back machine to recall what that was like.

Nonetheless, criticism is good and shows folks care. I'd rather keep playing at Apogee Stadium than find us playing at Apathy Stadium.

You mean this Apathy Stadium on virtually perfect weather day? No better photographic evidence that Seth should not have be brought back in the first place. This is a bad turnout for one of Denton’s high schools. People know good football around here and the see it so infrequently here the market is dead cold.

southsideguy · October 2, 2022

yeah that side was sparse but most people were sitting in shade on the other side of the field. However there was not a big crowd there.

Wag Tag · October 2, 2022

I want what BB has !!!! This is where my $$$ are going!

UNT 90 Grad · October 2, 2022

25 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

You mean this Apathy Stadium on virtually perfect weather day? No better photographic evidence that Seth should not have be brought back in the first place. This is a bad turnout for one of Denton’s high schools. People know good football around here and the see it so infrequently here the market is dead cold.

Well played. You threw my own photo back at me.

gruu · October 2, 2022

Perfection.

outoftown · October 2, 2022

In C-USA NT spent more than pretty much any other program (SL was the highest paid coach in the conference for most of his tenure here), NT should therefore have been competing for a championship every year winning it every once in a while.

This will obviously not be true anymore in the AAC where other schools boosters will spend more on NIL than happens at NT. Still NT will be financially solidly in the midfield and should be above .500 pretty much every year.

Edited October 2, 2022 by outoftown

Pellom · October 2, 2022

This varies so much and I think my answer would change if asked again in a year.

The bottom line is prior to Littrell’s arrival, the football program was a bottom dweller and one of the forgotten programs of college football. He has raised the expectation along with deft fundraising by Wren Baker.

Given how much funding we put into the program now, we should be competing for conference titles each year in CUSA. However, unless we continue to put more money in, that same measure does not apply to the AAC when we arrive next season. I think we will be in for a major culture shock and the adjustment process might be severe. For that reason I would say my expectations of a “successful” season would likely be to reach a bowl game (and hopefully win it depending on matchup).

Our main issue is perception. Recruits don’t know how much money we put into the program. Recruits don’t see how much we’ve committed to our football staff. They still see us as a bottom dweller and a school to pick if other Texas schools don’t call. That’s the thing that needs to change - and I don’t think Littrell has done enough in that regard, even though we won 9 games two years in a row. We need a hype man like McCasland or Joey McGuire at TTU.

To answer the question directly: there’s no reason we shouldn’t expect to compete for conference titles in CUSA. Next year I think expectations change and we may spend 2-4 years acknowledging a bowl win as “successful”.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Pellom

TheColonyEagle · October 2, 2022

We have the infrastructure in place for top 25 finishes. That’s my expectation. Be one of the top G5 programs in the country.

ntmeangreen11 · October 2, 2022

To battle for the G5 playoff spot, every year.

No excuses we will be in the best conference besides the P5, there is no excuse for that to not be the goal.

eulessismore · October 2, 2022

I went with (like most) conference championships, largely because that's what the current head coach defined as the goal when he arrived here. That said, it would be a real gut punch to win the CUSA championship this year and go on to lose the following bowl game, especially if we're noncompetitive.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 2, 2022

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

You mean this Apathy Stadium on virtually perfect weather day? No better photographic evidence that Seth should not have be brought back in the first place. This is a bad turnout for one of Denton’s high schools. People know good football around here and the see it so infrequently here the market is dead cold.

Spot. On.

UNT Family Man · October 2, 2022

I think the standard should be 8+ wins per year, consistent bowl winner, and occasional winner of the conference. With the move up to the AAC- a once a decade going deep in the season with an undefeated record and garnering national media attention.

UNTcrazy727 · October 2, 2022

2 hours ago, greenminer said:

When I answer conference championships, it means that we are in the running for a title consistently. It absolutely does not mean a season is a failure if we do not win a title.

But that’s what the option you selected means…A season without a conference championship is a failure.