Wren Baker to Georgia Tech?

[untjim1995]

1 hour ago, southsideguy said:

Then the question becomes, why is SL still here?

I think we know the an$wer$…

[KingDL1]

5 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I think we know the an$wer$…

We can blame it on money, but it is not. Or not directly.

It is the Old Denton culture that does not demand better results. We the fans are part to blame for that. 

If we let the admin know these kind of results were simply not acceptable, changes would be made. But as a fanbase we waffle and find excuses why we can't be successful

But at the end of the day all these excuses are absolute Bullshit. 

[Got5onIt]

Neon Deion for the new AD. 

[untjim1995]

16 hours ago, KingDL1 said:

We can blame it on money, but it is not. Or not directly.

It is the Old Denton culture that does not demand better results. We the fans are part to blame for that. 

If we let the admin know these kind of results were simply not acceptable, changes would be made. But as a fanbase we waffle and find excuses why we can't be successful

But at the end of the day all these excuses are absolute Bullshit. 

It's really kind of interesting. We have a winning percentage of .382 since we moved up to D-1 in 1995. Old Denton, as you mention, doesn't care or actually openly loathes UNT Sports, so I feel like the results we have seen since then aren't really because of Old Denton's culture. But what I do agree with you about this is that culture within the university is that they just don't care enough to fund winning. And that culture ain't leaving anytime soon...

What is new in Denton, though, is that there are about 8000 diehards to the program, with 17 of them who fund the program more than the budget gives from the administration. That didn't exist 20 years ago. But those BMDs just don't seem to put a premium on winning, either. They love the access that they get here, the sway they get to carry with the AD and President. But if winning was what truly mattered, we would never accept even half of the results we accept. Instead, we accept the reality that firing a coach is almost completely built on affordability of that buyout. And to your point, that is completely on an Old Denton culture that views the program as an expense, not as a revenue source that can be cultivated to bring in more dollars and eyeballs to the university. Maybe that is all on the fact that the university's location has always been an easy one to take advantage of, as we get tons of students to come here just for being a large public school near DFW that is fairly easy to attend. All I know is that this mindset will get us about 2 or 3 wins a year in the AAC...the budgets we are facing at the other schools, especially with coaching and facilities, will make the SBCUSA budgets we have faced look like a small business. But I'll believe that will change only when I see it change. As I have said, you cannot want to win more than the administration/BMDs. That will never work in your favor as a fan. Its why 2% of the UNT alumni care about our teams or even enjoy coming back to Denton again for a game...

[cousin oliver]

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

It's really kind of interesting. We have a winning percentage of .382 since we moved up to D-1 in 1995

Great post, and it speaks volumes as to why we see a lack of building support amongst the students and alumni and just t-shirt fans in the Denton area that like college football.

I think the positive we can draw from this is that when we do win consistently our fanbase grows.  We just have to get better at our coaching hires.  That is the biggest issue if you review the empirical data out there.

[untjim1995]

1 minute ago, cousin oliver said:

Great post, and it speaks volumes as to why we see a lack of building support amongst the students and alumni and just t-shirt fans in the Denton area that like college football.

I think the positive we can draw from this is that when we do win consistently our fanbase grows.  We just have to get better at our coaching hires.  That is the biggest issue if you review the empirical data out there.

It really is the issue. I'll always believe that any contract you issue to a coach should only be given with the reality that it can be fully bought out at ANYTIME if necessary--losing, embarrassing the university in some manner, etc..

What is a beatdown is watching Matt Simon, Vic Trilli, Darrell Dickey, Todd Dodge, Tony Benford, and now, Seth Littrell, get to a place where they only get replaced when its affordable, not when the losing and collapse of the programs are fairly obvious, yet we just wait until they reward the extra years by just losing more and bitching about this place as they prepare to leave. And I get it--if money is the issue, then you just have to make sure that the contracts you offer are within the means of being bought out at any time. You let people go and replace them with up and coming coaches, just as Appy State and many others like them do. When we extended SL  back in the day, it was understandable to me--he had shown  success can happen here, which is obviously not easy to do, and most around here were fairly happy with that. But most of us cannot understand how winning 4 games a year and only beating the complete spares of FBS and FCS teams is somehow fine to accept all because of cost, like we are still a program with a budget we had under Craig Helwig's tenure and playing ball at Toilet Bowl Fouts. That's not only ridiculous, its completely pathetic.

[KingDL1]

41 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

It really is the issue. I'll always believe that any contract you issue to a coach should only be given with the reality that it can be fully bought out at ANYTIME if necessary--losing, embarrassing the university in some manner, etc..

What is a beatdown is watching Matt Simon, Vic Trilli, Darrell Dickey, Todd Dodge, Tony Benford, and now, Seth Littrell, get to a place where they only get replaced when its affordable, not when the losing and collapse of the programs are fairly obvious, yet we just wait until they reward the extra years by just losing more and bitching about this place as they prepare to leave. And I get it--if money is the issue, then you just have to make sure that the contracts you offer are within the means of being bought out at any time. You let people go and replace them with up and coming coaches, just as Appy State and many others like them do. When we extended SL  back in the day, it was understandable to me--he had shown  success can happen here, which is obviously not easy to do, and most around here were fairly happy with that. But most of us cannot understand how winning 4 games a year and only beating the complete spares of FBS and FCS teams is somehow fine to accept all because of cost, like we are still a program with a budget we had under Craig Helwig's tenure and playing ball at Toilet Bowl Fouts. That's not only ridiculous, its completely pathetic.

I have slowly come to understand that Sports are the Red-haired stepchild of the University.

[untjim1995]

1 minute ago, KingDL1 said:

I have slowly come to understand that Sports are the Red-haired stepchild of the University.

I got there about 12 years ago.

[untbowler]

56 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

It really is the issue. I'll always believe that any contract you issue to a coach should only be given with the reality that it can be fully bought out at ANYTIME if necessary--losing, embarrassing the university in some manner, etc..

What is a beatdown is watching Matt Simon, Vic Trilli, Darrell Dickey, Todd Dodge, Tony Benford, and now, Seth Littrell, get to a place where they only get replaced when its affordable, not when the losing and collapse of the programs are fairly obvious, yet we just wait until they reward the extra years by just losing more and bitching about this place as they prepare to leave. And I get it--if money is the issue, then you just have to make sure that the contracts you offer are within the means of being bought out at any time. You let people go and replace them with up and coming coaches, just as Appy State and many others like them do. When we extended SL  back in the day, it was understandable to me--he had shown  success can happen here, which is obviously not easy to do, and most around here were fairly happy with that. But most of us cannot understand how winning 4 games a year and only beating the complete spares of FBS and FCS teams is somehow fine to accept all because of cost, like we are still a program with a budget we had under Craig Helwig's tenure and playing ball at Toilet Bowl Fouts. That's not only ridiculous, its completely pathetic.

I agree but it does not help that 3 of the last 4 FB coaches have pretty much openly despised the fans. I think Dodge liked the fans, but was hamstrung by poor staffing. 

DD, DMac, and SL have little to no love for the fans, other than expecting them to just show up. 

UNT needs a coach that 1.) wants to be at UNT, look at McCasland and Delong 2.) get out into the community and promote UNT, I have not seen that at all out of SL and that is embarrassing.

3.) change the culture, change the results

[KingDL1]

56 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I'll always believe that any contract you issue to a coach should only be given with the reality that it can be fully bought out at ANYTIME if necessary --losing, embarrassing the university in some manner, etc.

I was going to write something like this the other day, though I believe we have the money buyout. But UNT administration culture is why spend the money: Seth is good enough. 

[KingDL1]

1 minute ago, untbowler said:

3.) change the culture, change the results

I would like to see UNT add an entire three-day mandatory spirit camp for incoming students, maybe up at lake Ray Roberts like aTm's Fish Camp, in addition to orientation. All incoming students that are junior level and below.

But the administration and the faculty would have to be an active part of this. If any faculty stand against it, they can be shown the door. Faculty and TAs promote sports in class before game days, especially Football and Basketball. 

[Got5onIt]

1 minute ago, KingDL1 said:

I would like to see UNT add an entire three-day mandatory spirit camp for incoming students, maybe up at lake Ray Roberts like aTm's Fish Camp, in addition to orientation. All incoming students that are junior level and below.

But the administration and the faculty would have to be an active part of this. If any faculty stand against it, they can be shown the door. Faculty and TAs promote sports in class before game days, especially Football and Basketball. 

Why not lake Lewisville? It’s right there! Party Cove brah!!!!!!!

[KingDL1]

3 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

Why not lake Lewisville? It’s right there! Party Cove brah!!!!!!!

Works for me, I was figuring land on Ray Roberts would be cheaper. 

[meangreenfaninno]

9 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

I would like to see UNT add an entire three-day mandatory spirit camp for incoming students, maybe up at lake Ray Roberts like aTm's Fish Camp, in addition to orientation. All incoming students that are junior level and below.

But the administration and the faculty would have to be an active part of this. If any faculty stand against it, they can be shown the door. Faculty and TAs promote sports in class before game days, especially Football and Basketball. 

I really like this idea.  We need to send this over to Dr. Smatresk.

[MeanGreenTexan]

16 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

I would like to see UNT add an entire three-day mandatory spirit camp for incoming students, maybe up at lake Ray Roberts like aTm's Fish Camp, in addition to orientation. All incoming students that are junior level and below.

But the administration and the faculty would have to be an active part of this. If any faculty stand against it, they can be shown the door. Faculty and TAs promote sports in class before game days, especially Football and Basketball. 

Nothing like that can be made "mandatory", but what you're asking for is already in existence.

https://studentaffairs.unt.edu/orientation-and-transition-programs/programs/eagle-camp/register

- MeanGreenTexan - Innaugural Eagle Camp Counselor (2002)
                                 - Fun fact: Eli Young Band played for a group of about 30 people at the 2002 Eagle Camp!

[RBP79]

Unfortunately..for the students and Alumni to get truly invovled you got to FRICKIN win!

And more than a good year or two. It may/will take a decade of good to great teams consistently winning and beating other good teams to accomplish this.

IMO...whoever Wren hires as HFC maybe his most important hire of his career to date. Let's hope he gets it right. And hope the University Administrators belly up to the table and support him in the process.

 

[KingDL1]

47 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Nothing like that can be made "mandatory", but what you're asking for is already in existence.

https://studentaffairs.unt.edu/orientation-and-transition-programs/programs/eagle-camp/register

- MeanGreenTexan - Innaugural Eagle Camp Counselor (2002)
                                 - Fun fact: Eli Young Band played for a group of about 30 people at the 2002 Eagle Camp!

From what I understand that is just orientation, why can't it be mandatory? 

[MeanGreenTexan]

Just now, KingDL1 said:

From what I understand that is just orientation, why can't it be mandatory? 

You must not have clicked on the link.
Orientation is mandatory.    Eagle Camp is not.   And it shouldn't be.   It's for people who are excited to get on campus and meet new people.  2 totally different things.   

If I'm not mistaken, part of orientation brings incoming Freshmen to Apogee for an introduction to athletics.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

I've lived and learned enough in life to know that when someone doesn't want to be here, then I don't want them here. I don't know anything about Wren, but if he leaves, then so be it. We have a solid position for hiring - do you see what he makes here? That is ridiculously competitive - especially when the top sport is a constant sad trombone. 
 

[SilverEagle]

About Eagle Camp

Not to be confused with Freshman Orientation, Eagle Camp is the next step in a smooth transition to UNT and the Denton community. Eagle Camp is a great opportunity for you to make new friends, learn UNT traditions, and enter into your first year of college with confidence and feeling like a part of the UNT family! You will also meet student leaders who will help you feel ready as you start college as part of the Mean Green family!

 

 

You mean the same spirit organization that couldn't (and mostly still can't) organize and/or direct a simple "NORTH TEXAS" chant in our home stadium? The same spirit group that DOES NOT coordinate with the Band in any of their cheers/chants (the ones that they actually do......as long as it doesn't interfere with their gymnastics demonstrations)?

You don't need a spirit Eagle Camp to convey to freshman that they need to "show up to games (hopefully before half time), wear green (or as close as you can get) and participate in cheers and yells......assuming you can figure out that that is what the spirit groups are doing."

[KingDL1]

24 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You must not have clicked on the link.
Orientation is mandatory.    Eagle Camp is not.   And it shouldn't be.   It's for people who are excited to get on campus and meet new people.  2 totally different things.   

If I'm not mistaken, part of orientation brings incoming Freshmen to Apogee for an introduction to athletics.

From what I been told Eagle Camp is not even close to what I am talking about. 

[SilverEagle]

12 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

I've lived and learned enough in life to know that when someone doesn't want to be here, then I don't want them here. I don't know anything about Wren, but if he leaves, then so be it. We have a solid position for hiring - do you see what he makes here? That is ridiculously competitive - especially when the top sport is a constant sad trombone. 
 

FWIW I wanted Mosley to be hired as AD before they hired Baker.  Mosley was hired as assistant AD shortly after Baker was hired. When I read that I couldn't believe my eyes. The administration actually made a smart move!!

We're good to go if Baker moves on.

[meangreenbob]

3 hours ago, untbowler said:

I agree but it does not help that 3 of the last 4 FB coaches have pretty much openly despised the fans. I think Dodge liked the fans, but was hamstrung by poor staffing. 

DD, DMac, and SL have little to no love for the fans, other than expecting them to just show up. 

UNT needs a coach that 1.) wants to be at UNT, look at McCasland and Delong 2.) get out into the community and promote UNT, I have not seen that at all out of SL and that is embarrassing.

3.) change the culture, change the results

4) Change the coach and change the culture. 

[TIgreen01]

I guess I could be wrong, but the first home game every single year proves that our freshman show up ready for football.

Half the time we promptly get embarrassed (esp the last 3 years) and they slowly start falling off.

I don't think there is anything wrong with our orientation or Eagle Camps, etc.  The problem is the team has a losing record by the end of September nearly every single year.  It, also, can't be great staring over at the half-empty alumni side.  The last time we had a winning record at the end of Sept was 2018.  We were 4-0 riding into the Sept 29 game against LaTech and set an all time attendance record.

[GrayEagle]

14 hours ago, KingDL1 said:

I would like to see UNT add an entire three-day mandatory spirit camp for incoming students, maybe up at lake Ray Roberts like aTm's Fish Camp, in addition to orientation. All incoming students that are junior level and below.

But the administration and the faculty would have to be an active part of this. If any faculty stand against it, they can be shown the door. Faculty and TAs promote sports in class before game days, especially Football and Basketball.