Mean Green Baseball Project

[Doug Rush]

 

UNTcrazy727

"So is the football talent. The argument that UNT would immediately be a baseball power is extremely optimistic and misleading, IMO. "

There is lots of football talent. I agree.  But, there are 85 full scholarships in football and that means the rich get richer and the talent pool gets diluted.  This has always been the case.  

Baseball has 11.7 scholarships for a 27 man roster.  So, many really good players do not get to play d1 baseball.  That is both good and bad.  Bad for talented players.  Good for mid-majors like Southern Mississippi, Coastal Carolina, Campbell, and I could go on and on and on.  U.N.T. sits in a huge talent hot bed for baseball with more really good players than there are places to play.  

[Doug Rush]

MGnation92 thanks for the report.  I will look at it in a bit.  I have to head to practice.  I know football generates more money than all other sports.  I was asking if it generates more money that it costs to have?  I will check it out.  And I believe we can find outside money that won't interfere with U.N.T.'s decades long quest to be relevant in football.  The money we will generate will mainly come from people who have no intention of giving money to anything but U.N.T. baseball and would not be giving otherwise.  

[TheColonyEagle]

34 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

So is the football talent. The argument that UNT would immediately be a baseball power is extremely optimistic and misleading, IMO. 

The difference is the amount of talent that goes Juco and under D1. There is a lot of D1 talent that goes D2, D3 and juco because there aren’t enough spots in D1. (And they want to get drafted)

I believe UNT offering another D1 option would fill up pretty quick with D1 talent that would otherwise go non D1. 

[TheColonyEagle]

26 minutes ago, Doug Rush said:

 

UNTcrazy727

"So is the football talent. The argument that UNT would immediately be a baseball power is extremely optimistic and misleading, IMO. "

There is lots of football talent. I agree.  But, there are 85 full scholarships in football and that means the rich get richer and the talent pool gets diluted.  This has always been the case.  

Baseball has 11.7 scholarships for a 27 man roster.  So, many really good players do not get to play d1 baseball.  That is both good and bad.  Bad for talented players.  Good for mid-majors like Southern Mississippi, Coastal Carolina, Campbell, and I could go on and on and on.  U.N.T. sits in a huge talent hot bed for baseball with more really good players than there are places to play.  

What he said 👆🏻

[Cr1028]

22 minutes ago, Doug Rush said:

And I believe we can find outside money that won't interfere with U.N.T.'s decades long quest to be relevant in football.  The money we will generate will mainly come from people who have no intention of giving money to anything but U.N.T. baseball and would not be giving otherwise.  

 

1 hour ago, Doug Rush said:

I think 35 years has been long enough to wait on football to get right at the expense of baseball.  

Funny how you like to dog football and its relevance while using the football forum and a football tailgate to raise awareness about your baseball project.

[TheColonyEagle]

35 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

If you look at the trajectory of each sport it probably makes more sense to add men's soccer. Soccer continues to grow in popularity, especially with college aged people, while baseball continues to be stagnant. And I imagine soccer would be way cheaper. 

College baseball is gaining in popularity. The College World Series is becoming a must see event and ESPN is starting to televise more games. There’s no comparison between TV for college soccer and college baseball. (And I like soccer too) 

[UNTcrazy727]

2 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

The difference is the amount of talent that goes Juco and under D1. There is a lot of D1 talent that goes D2, D3 and juco because there aren’t enough spots in D1. (And they want to get drafted)

I believe UNT offering another D1 option would fill up pretty quick with D1 talent that would otherwise go non D1. 

I understand that, but as a new program we'd still be getting last pick of D1 talent. Do you have any recent examples of upstart programs that were nationally competitive within a few years?

[TheColonyEagle]

1 minute ago, Cr1028 said:

 

Funny how you like to dog football and its relevance while using the football forum and a football tailgate to raise awareness about your baseball project.

So we haven’t been irrelevant in football for 35 years?

[GrandGreen]

IMO, baseball's future at NT has little to do with Title 9, NT is way ahead of most schools on that basis.   However, many are quick to use that as an excuse to not do something. 

The starting of a baseball program has all to do with finances.  Not the coaches salaries or the scholarship expenses, but the cost to build an appropriate facility to play. 

There are only a few college football programs that actually earn more than they cost.  Most are in the SEC or flagship programs in their states.  The intangible benefits can be debated, but most programs are heavily supported by student fees.

It will take some massive donations to fund the initiation of a baseball program at NT.   I think it will eventually happen, but this move up in conferences will properly be a short term delay.   The new league realignment in the long run should help the cause as more revenue should be available. 

 

[DentonLurker]

Still my ranking of priorities for this athletic department:

1. Athletic Center Expansion
2. New Basketball/Volleyball Arena with a real practice facility attached
3. New Softball Stadium
4. Baseball/whatever needs to happen in Women's Sports to make Baseball happen

The only way Baseball rises for me is if there are enough new dollars to fully fund the stadium/operations for multiple years into the future raised up front. Because Baseball loses money, I'm not a fan of adding it until the deficit can be covered into the future. This athletic department already needs student fees to pay the bills, and with the rising cost of collegiate education, increasing student fees to pay for baseball is off the table in my book.

[TheColonyEagle]

4 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

I understand that, but as a new program we'd still be getting last pick of D1 talent. Do you have any recent examples of upstart programs that were nationally competitive within a few years?

I guess you have to define “few”

Houston Baptist became D1 in ‘08. Were in the NCAA tourney 6-7 years later? Seems fairly quick? 

[UNTcrazy727]

1 minute ago, DentonLurker said:

Still my ranking of priorities for this athletic department:

1. Athletic Center Expansion
2. New Basketball/Volleyball Arena with a real practice facility attached
3. New Softball Stadium
4. Baseball/whatever needs to happen in Women's Sports to make Baseball happen

The only way Baseball rises for me is if there are enough new dollars to fully fund the stadium/operations for multiple years into the future raised up front. Because Baseball loses money, I'm not a fan of adding it until the deficit can be covered into the future. This athletic department already needs student fees to pay the bills, and with the rising cost of collegiate education, increasing student fees to pay for baseball is off the table in my book.

3. New Softball stadium

Not going to happen. We are renovating/expanding the current stadium. 

[untjim1995]

3 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

Still my ranking of priorities for this athletic department:

1. Athletic Center Expansion
2. New Basketball/Volleyball Arena with a real practice facility attached
3. New Softball Stadium
4. Baseball/whatever needs to happen in Women's Sports to make Baseball happen

The only way Baseball rises for me is if there are enough new dollars to fully fund the stadium/operations for multiple years into the future raised up front. Because Baseball loses money, I'm not a fan of adding it until the deficit can be covered into the future. This athletic department already needs student fees to pay the bills, and with the rising cost of collegiate education, increasing student fees to pay for baseball is off the table in my book.

I don't even think we need a new basketball arena--the Super Pit is still a great venue, especially when it's got more than a few thousand in it. That place was built at a time when acoustics pushed straight down to the floor. 

[Pellom]

45 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

 

So, how much did it cost to bring about women's softball? How is it that men's baseball is so much more expensive?  

Right now, I would much rather watch a women's softball game than a men's baseball game. Men's baseball is sooo slow. The women don't waste time. They get with it.

Well on top of building the facilities, my understanding is baseball equipment is very expensive in comparison to equipment for other sports (softball notwithstanding). 
 

So the calculus is simple: are we going to earmark millions of dollars to get started while also acknowledging this program has very little chance to ever generate meaningful revenue. Things like this only happen when LARGE donors explicitly state they want it to happen and will fund it by any means necessary. 
 

As I said, I love college baseball so I hope it happens, and I will throw some money to the GoFundMe just as I have toward the Light The Tower collective. But the timing isn’t stellar for baseball simply because football is in such flux - meaning we throw way more money at it than we have in the past, but more is probably necessary because we might have to buyout one coaching staff and hire another. AND they want to improve the football facilities over time. 

[DentonLurker]

8 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

3. New Softball stadium

Not going to happen. We are renovating/expanding the current stadium.

That's fair. I'm fine with that.

[DentonLurker]

8 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I don't even think we need a new basketball arena--the Super Pit is still a great venue, especially when it's got more than a few thousand in it.

I think the Super Pit has run its course. It's time to modernize. I would definitely not call it a great venue.

[UNTcrazy727]

7 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I guess you have to define “few”

Houston Baptist became D1 in ‘08. Were in the NCAA tourney 6-7 years later? Seems fairly quick? 

1. Houston Baptist was in NAIA program before going D1 so they weren't starting from scratch.

2. HBU has a 284-357 record since going D1 and their 1 NCAA appearance was because of a miracle conference tourney run as the 7 seed.  And in their 7 seasons (not counting the COVID season) as a member of the Southland Conference they have a 95-120 conference record. I wouldn't say this qualifies as being nationally competitive. 

[TheColonyEagle]

6 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

1. Houston Baptist was in NAIA program before going D1 so they weren't starting from scratch.

2. HBU has a 284-357 record since going D1 and their 1 NCAA appearance was because of a miracle conference tourney run as the 7 seed.  And in their 7 seasons (not counting the COVID season) as a member of the Southland Conference they have a 95-120 conference record. I wouldn't say this qualifies as being nationally competitive. 

I would be lying if I said I had intimate knowledge of HBU. I spent 5 seconds googling. 
 

Just seems like UNT would be more of a destination than HBU and thus would be a little easier to get talent to Denton 

[TheColonyEagle]

3 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I would be lying if I said I had intimate knowledge of HBU. I spent 5 seconds googling. 
 

Just seems like UNT would be more of a destination than HBU and thus would be a little easier to get talent to Denton 

Actually I was thinking of DBU. Not HBU. 😂 got my Baptists confused 

Edited September 16, 2022 by TheColonyEagle

[TheColonyEagle]

Point being. If Dallas Baptist can have a program like they have. We can have one here. 

[Clinetort]

44 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

 

Funny how you like to dog football and its relevance while using the football forum and a football tailgate to raise awareness about your baseball project.

That is not at all what the MGBP stands for.  We want ALL North Texas Athletics programs to be successful.  

[Coach_1976]

Here are my 2 cents on baseball and not being from Texas I don't even know if this is an option. Some states have the Hope scholarship which if you maintain a B average in school you earn a room and board scholarship. I do know that money comes from the lottery so is that a reasonable option for the state of Texas or would that possible make rich richer so they can split up other sports scholarships,. Just thoughts

 

[UNTLifer]

54 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

That is not at all what the MGBP stands for.  We want ALL North Texas Athletics programs to be successful.  

If that is correct, then why the push to add another sport that is a push to even break even financially when other existing sports still need upgrades/investments to make them successful?

[UNT78]

Forget baseball! We need to concentrate on football and basketball; we don't have the money for all three!

[Clinetort]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

If that is correct, then why the push to add another sport that is a push to even break even financially when other existing sports still need upgrades/investments to make them successful?

I know that this is the line the athletics department is pushing.  I'm not sure I buy it.  The bottom line is that when the current administration moves on to greener pastures, we North Texas fans will still be here.  It is our responsibility to take ownership and advocate for the type of program or programs we want to have.  MGBP is doing just that.  An advocacy group to bring back baseball.  No more, no less.