CHANGE MY MIND.

meangreenbob · September 6, 2022

Why does it feel like this Athletic Department is running a D2 program, peddling it as a D1 to the faithful all the while lining their pockets with lots of money and always quick with the excuses or spin when called out?

Edited September 6, 2022 by meangreenbob

untbowler · September 6, 2022

because that is how UNT rolls, can not even be mad at WB anymore, it starts at that top of the School with the BOR, President, and Chancellor, they want to brag about being cheapest, well this what you get. We overpay for the chiefs and have little left for the actual real workers. It is a culture issue that is perpetuated from the very top down.

El Paso Eagle · September 6, 2022

It seems like we have been so focused on building a program from the top to the bottom that we did not focus on building the foundation. We are a top heavy organization that has spent our money and know we are not able to take care of the organization. We seem to be that person who bought a house way more expensive than we can afford to maintain.

Edited September 7, 2022 by El Paso Eagle

SMU2006 · September 6, 2022

I'm clearly not as close the situation as some of your longtime fans/alums but it seems like North Texas has made significant strides towards being competitive. I'd argue that UNT's facilities are in the top ten among G5 programs nationally. Financially the institution and program have the infrastructure to succeed in the new AAC. It seems like UNT is committed to putting together a pretty decent NIL collective too. This will serve you well in the transfer portal.

Just comes down to hiring the right coaches and holding them accountable. Really that's the only missing piece. I think a big problem is seeing SMU as the bar. That is just not realistic moving forward. SMU is going to be one the leading NIL/transfer destinations in the country regardless of conference affiliation. I do think UTSA, UAB, and Memphis should be good measuring sticks for North Texas. Absolutely no reason the Mean Green can't be right up there with those programs.

meangreenbob · September 6, 2022

2 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

I'm clearly not as close the situation as some of your longtime fans/alums but it seems like North Texas has made significant strides towards being competitive. I'd argue that UNT's facilities are in the top ten among G5 programs nationally. Financially the institution and program have the infrastructure to succeed in the new AAC. It seems like UNT is committed to putting together a pretty decent NIL collective too. This will serve you well in the transfer portal.

Just comes down to hiring the right coaches and holding them accountable. Really that's the only missing piece. I think a big problem is seeing SMU as the bar. That is just not realistic moving forward. SMU is going to be one the leading NIL/transfer destinations in the country regardless of conference affiliation. I do think UTSA, UAB, and Memphis should be good measuring sticks for North Texas. Absolutely no reason the Mean Green can't be right up there with those programs.

So patronizing, so disingenuous and so prideful.

UNT Texas Hooligan · September 6, 2022

7 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

I'm clearly not as close the situation as some of your longtime fans/alums but it seems like North Texas has made significant strides towards being competitive. I'd argue that UNT's facilities are in the top ten among G5 programs nationally. Financially the institution and program have the infrastructure to succeed in the new AAC. It seems like UNT is committed to putting together a pretty decent NIL collective too. This will serve you well in the transfer portal.

Just comes down to hiring the right coaches and holding them accountable. Really that's the only missing piece. I think a big problem is seeing SMU as the bar. That is just not realistic moving forward. SMU is going to be one the leading NIL/transfer destinations in the country regardless of conference affiliation. I do think UTSA, UAB, and Memphis should be good measuring sticks for North Texas. Absolutely no reason the Mean Green can't be right up there with those programs.

I agree. The foundation is there, it just takes the right coach and holding them accountable. You can't keep a bad coach on just because he is best friends with everyone. UTSA is winning with subpar and borderline high school facilities.

I like Wren and think he has done some great things for our athletics, but the longer he keeps Littrell on as head coach while watching us lose games and seeing attendance plummet, the more I continue to question his competence.

Edited September 6, 2022 by UNT Texas Hooligan

southsideguy · September 6, 2022

SMU will make the jump soon. They are paying well and will get the talent. I mean the players who don't go pro and really have no interest in the educational part may take a pay cut to get their first job. They have too much money to stay in the AAC. $36k to a lot of these college kids is big money.

They are going to be a pro football light program. the big spenders will need to be all together.

If we could spend 36k a player I am sure we could be a powerhouse as long as we hired a new head coach.

Edited September 6, 2022 by southsideguy

UNTcrazy727 · September 6, 2022

10 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

I'm clearly not as close the situation as some of your longtime fans/alums but it seems like North Texas has made significant strides towards being competitive. I'd argue that UNT's facilities are in the top ten among G5 programs nationally. Financially the institution and program have the infrastructure to succeed in the new AAC. It seems like UNT is committed to putting together a pretty decent NIL collective too. This will serve you well in the transfer portal.

Just comes down to hiring the right coaches and holding them accountable. Really that's the only missing piece. I think a big problem is seeing SMU as the bar. That is just not realistic moving forward. SMU is going to be one the leading NIL/transfer destinations in the country regardless of conference affiliation. I do think UTSA, UAB, and Memphis should be good measuring sticks for North Texas. Absolutely no reason the Mean Green can't be right up there with those programs.

You're further away from the program, but your analysis is accurate. People here are acting like the program is on the brink of collapse, which is laughable.

But acting like SMU is in a different stratosphere than UNT isn't accurate either. Sure, SMU has more talent, but there's no reason they should be blowing out UNT by 20+ every game.

Wag Tag · September 6, 2022

It was mentioned that UNT's coaching budget is $40m SMU is more than double that number it was mentioned in the $90m range. They are paying kids $36k when TT is paying $25k and most P5' are paying less.

As stated before there is no school that will benefit more from the NIL than SMU. Now let's see if they can fill their stadium.

NorthTexasWeLove · September 6, 2022

38 minutes ago, meangreenbob said:

Why does it feel like this Athletic Department is running a D2 program, peddling it as a D1 to the faithful all the while lining their pockets with lots of money and always quick with the excuses or spin when called out?

This is very well put. They (administratiors) big time in a tiny pond. I got that feeling very quick when I came to UNT when RV was leading the show. That same feeling came back when WB gave himself multiple titles and then immediately stsrted insulating himself with large salaried employees.

Lurker · September 6, 2022

41 minutes ago, meangreenbob said:

Why does it feel like this Athletic Department is running a D2 program, peddling it as a D1 to the faithful all the while lining their pockets with lots of money and always quick with the excuses or spin when called out?

Why would I try to change your mind when the evidence says you are 100% correct? I did not renew my season tickets this year due to customer service problems last year and it looks like that was the right decision.

GRN-WHT · September 6, 2022

1 hour ago, meangreenbob said:

Why does it feel like this Athletic Department is running a D2 program, peddling it as a D1 to the faithful all the while lining their pockets with lots of money and always quick with the excuses or spin when called out?

No lies detected.

I said it a few times over the weekend, this school simply isn’t interested in running a serious athletic department.

untjim1995 · September 6, 2022

1 hour ago, GRN-WHT said:

No lies detected.

I said it a few times over the weekend, this school simply isn’t interested in running a serious athletic department.

Its a very tough reality. I learned this many, many years ago here. You cannot want to win MORE than the administration and leadership of the university. To expect more than we typically get is insanity. Its why I always tell people to enjoy the occasional 9-win season around here, as that has been well-proven to be our ceiling in Denton. Since 1995, when we got back to FBS, we have had 27 seasons--we have won 9 games 4x, which represents the highest win totals we have ever had. We have had exactly 6 winning seasons. We have played in two different stadiums, had 6 head coaches, three different ADs, countless numbers of Presidents, and have played in 3 different conferences (with another to come). No matter who, where, or when you look back on all of this, it adds up to suckitude.

And I will forever believe that the point where this place was completely buried was the asinine decision to go down to FCS (I-AA) in 1982 and kept us there for 12 years. We literally nuked our fanbase of alums for 5 decades (50s thru the 90s) who would be at a place in life to actually be funding and willing assets to the program, like every other major school does. While we may be getting revived here and there, the reality is that our corrupted body can't ever really get so much better that it can win at any contest against others who are healthier and stronger.

As I have said often, you either keep coming back for more pain or you go away like the other 98% of the UNT Alumni. Its why the other P5 schools have more fans with UNT degrees than we have ever had

greengal · September 6, 2022

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

Its a very tough reality. I learned this many, many years ago here. You cannot want to win MORE than the administration and leadership of the university. To expect more than we typically get is insanity. Its why I always tell people to enjoy the occasional 9-win season around here, as that has been well-proven to be our ceiling in Denton. Since 1995, when we got back to FBS, we have had 27 seasons--we have won 9 games 4x, which represents the highest win totals we have ever had. We have had exactly 6 winning seasons. We have played in two different stadiums, had 6 head coaches, three different ADs, countless numbers of Presidents, and have played in 3 different conferences (with another to come). No matter who, where, or when you look back on all of this, it adds up to suckitude.

And I will forever believe that the point where this place was completely buried was the asinine decision to go down to FCS (I-AA) in 1982 and kept us there for 12 years. We literally nuked our fanbase of alums for 5 decades (50s thru the 90s) who would be at a place in life to actually be funding and willing assets to the program, like every other major school does. While we may be getting revived here and there, the reality is that our corrupted body can't ever really get so much better that it can win at any contest against others who are healthier and stronger.

As I have said often, you either keep coming back for more pain or you go away like the other 98% of the UNT Alumni. Its why the other P5 schools have more fans with UNT degrees than we have ever had

God bless you Jim you have a way with words and you are one of my favorite posters because you can put into words what many of us are feeling.

MeanGreenTexan · September 6, 2022

2 hours ago, SMU2006 said:

I'm clearly not as close the situation as some of your longtime fans/alums but it seems like North Texas has made significant strides towards being competitive. I'd argue that UNT's facilities are in the top ten among G5 programs nationally. Financially the institution and program have the infrastructure to succeed in the new AAC. It seems like UNT is committed to putting together a pretty decent NIL collective too. This will serve you well in the transfer portal.

Just comes down to hiring the right coaches and holding them accountable. Really that's the only missing piece. I think a big problem is seeing SMU as the bar. That is just not realistic moving forward. SMU is going to be one the leading NIL/transfer destinations in the country regardless of conference affiliation. I do think UTSA, UAB, and Memphis should be good measuring sticks for North Texas. Absolutely no reason the Mean Green can't be right up there with those programs.

Hey y'all,
Pay attention to this... particularly, the 1st & second sentences in the 2nd paragraph. This from a complete outsider.
Just about everything is there for UNT to be successful in football. We should be 2 games into the necessary rebuild in getting us there with a buffer season here in C-USA to get the knots out. Missed opportunity.
Instead, it appears that rebuild is going to happen as we're thrown into the AAC fire.

2 hours ago, meangreenbob said:

So patronizing, so disingenuous and so prideful.

I disagree. I think it's a rare moment of honesty from someone usually somewhat-hostile. Of course he's gonna build up his school when comparing. We'll be able to reciprocate at some point. But something has to change in order to start that climb.

untbowler · September 6, 2022

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Hey y'all,
Pay attention to this... particularly, the 1st & second sentences in the 2nd paragraph. This from a complete outsider.
Just about everything is there for UNT to be successful in football. We should be 2 games into the necessary rebuild in getting us there with a buffer season here in C-USA to get the knots out. Missed opportunity.
Instead, it appears that rebuild is going to happen as we're thrown into the AAC fire.

I disagree. I think it's a rare moment of honesty from someone usually somewhat-hostile. Of course he's gonna build up his school when comparing. We'll be able to reciprocate at some point. But something has to change in order to start that climb.

Do not be surprised if SL is leading the team when UNT joins AAC, should not happen but just start preparing, have seen nothing that would indicate SL will be gone and if the home opener debacle does not move the needle nothing will.

Easy schedule this year so if SL reaches 5 wins, he will be back. The backbone is not there to make the hard decisions.

UNTLifer · September 6, 2022

I don't feel this. My biggest complaint is holding on to coaches for too long, but I also believe that we will have a much better season than many on this board think. Too many jumping off the bridge due to Saturday's results.

MeanGreen22 · September 6, 2022

I know we’re all still emotional and in our feels, but this athletic department has improved programs across the board by leaps and bounds. Don’t let one weekend make you lose sight of that.

RBP79 · September 6, 2022

Wren and Seth (in reference to football only) can win Battles but they will NEVER win the war.

TripleGrad · September 6, 2022

Facilities don't win games. North Texas is no better in Apogee than it was in Fouts.

Edited September 6, 2022 by TripleGrad

untjim1995 · September 6, 2022

44 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I don't feel this. My biggest complaint is holding on to coaches for too long, but I also believe that we will have a much better season than many on this board think. Too many jumping off the bridge due to Saturday's results.

I completely agree here. Too many UNT fans think SMU is the standard. They aren’t—we barely compete with them in this series, as we usually get our asses handed to us, leading to a fanbase that pretty well quits after that game.

We got a long way to go and a schedule with teams that we probably cannot beat in Memphis, UTSA, UAB, and WKU. The others are completely winnable. And should be winnable—which has always been the problem with making this year a make-it-or-break-it year for SL. It’s cush…Getting enough wins to keep his job is much easier with no P5 body bag game, as well as playing in the worst FBS conference by miles.

Im still sticking to 7-5…

Edited September 6, 2022 by untjim1995

UNTLifer · September 6, 2022

7 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I completely agree here. Too many UNT fans think SMU is the standard. They aren’t—we barely compete with them in this series, as we usually get our asses handed to us, leading to a fanbase that pretty well quits after that game.

We got a long way to go and a schedule with teams that we probably cannot beat in Memphis, UTSA, UAB, and WKU. The others are completely winnable. And should be winnable—which has always been the problem with making this year a make-it-or-break-it year for SL. It’s cush…Getting enough wins to keep his job is much easier with no P5 body bag game, as well as playing in the worst FBS conference by miles.

Im still sticking to 7-5…

The only school that I have watched play that has me worried to this point is UAB.

Many on here act like smuT just manhandled us. Sorry, I didn't see that. I saw our stupid mistakes cost us. Burns stripped after catching a pass for a first down. Bad snap at the goal line coming out of a time out, missed FG after the prior play where the kicker just kicked it too low, tipped int. after a long drive at the goal line, etc...

Third and longs killed us. I really like how Ridge Texada plays, but when he is 5'8" and is covering a 6'2" WR, he is going to lose that battle 99% of the time.

For some reason, when we make a mistake against smuT, we seem to get tense and the the problems just snowball.

untjim1995 · September 6, 2022

2 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

The only school that I have watched play that has me worried to this point is UAB.

Many on here act like smuT just manhandled us. Sorry, I didn't see that. I saw our stupid mistakes cost us. Burns stripped after catching a pass for a first down. Bad snap at the goal line coming out of a time out, missed FG after the prior play where the kicker just kicked it too low, tipped int. after a long drive at the goal line, etc...

Third and longs killed us. I really like how Ridge Texada plays, but when he is 5'8" and is covering a 6'2" WR, he is going to lose that battle 99% of the time.

For some reason, when we make a mistake against smuT, we seem to get tense and the the problems just snowball.

The deal with SMU has always been that they're the one opponent that our fanbase cares about and that we act like an actual school that cares about football the week of that game. We then fill up Apogee to a huge crowd or we go give SMU an extra 7-10k of actual fans at Ford, then the team sees the Mustang on the helmet and as soon as ANYTHING goes wrong, the entire team just melts down, from players to coaches, which leads to an epic beatdown and a fanbase disappearing.

I predicted SMU winning 43-19, so not too far off. But part of my guess was exactly what you talk about, that the snowball effect will come into play and the game is either over at halftime or we do absolutely nothing int he 2nd half of tight games that get completely away from us in the 4th quarter. SMU isn't 38 points more talented than we are, but we make it look like that because we are tight af all damn week when we play them. The only other time I've seen anything like this was in the late 90s when the Rangers played the Yankees. Those games were over before they started because the Rangers' entire organization and its fans freaked out as soon as they saw that NY on the uniform.

UNTcrazy727 · September 6, 2022

52 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I completely agree here. Too many UNT fans think SMU is the standard. They aren’t—we barely compete with them in this series, as we usually get our asses handed to us, leading to a fanbase that pretty well quits after that game.

We got a long way to go and a schedule with teams that we probably cannot beat in Memphis, UTSA, UAB, and WKU. The others are completely winnable. And should be winnable—which has always been the problem with making this year a make-it-or-break-it year for SL. It’s cush…Getting enough wins to keep his job is much easier with no P5 body bag game, as well as playing in the worst FBS conference by miles.

Im still sticking to 7-5…

7-5 is likely (I have 8-4), but I don't think WB can afford to bring back Littrell if we lose to SMU, Memphis, UTSA, and UAB. Especially, if there are a couple more blowouts.

The lousy bowl crowd and the less than stellar crowd Saturday should serve as a wakeup call to WB that the fanbase has soured on Littrell. For that to change at this point would require a massive turnaround. I'm talking 9-3 with a championship game appearance.