Student Loan Forgiveness

[El Paso Eagle]

1 minute ago, UNTLifer said:

https://thecollegeinvestor.com/35892/is-student-loan-forgiveness-by-executive-order-legal/

"The President does not have the legal authority to forgive student loans on his own. Only Congress has the power of the purse. Executive action can be used only when it has been specifically authorized by Congress.

The executive branch cannot spend money that has not been appropriated by Congress, per 31 USC 1301 et seq (Antideficiency Act (P.L. 97-258)) and Article I, Section 7, Clause 7 of the U.S. Constitution.

The claims that the President has the authority to forgive student loans are based on a misreading of the Higher Education Act of 1965 at 20 USC 1082(a)(6). "

 

 

 

Could be 100% wrong, but hear he is using some of the Covid refelif discretionary funds. 

[UNTLifer]

3 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

From a family experience I can agree this is true. Many schools are pushing programs that will get you a degree, but that's about it. You might be surprised by how many students are finishing with Multidisciplinary/General studies degrees. 

And any student stupid enough to pursue this degree should have to live with the consequences.

[Coffee and TV]

5 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

@Coffee and TV well looky here my liberal friend.

https://thecollegeinvestor.com/35892/is-student-loan-forgiveness-by-executive-order-legal/

"The President does not have the legal authority to forgive student loans on his own. Only Congress has the power of the purse. Executive action can be used only when it has been specifically authorized by Congress.

The executive branch cannot spend money that has not been appropriated by Congress, per 31 USC 1301 et seq (Antideficiency Act (P.L. 97-258)) and Article I, Section 7, Clause 7 of the U.S. Constitution.

The claims that the President has the authority to forgive student loans are based on a misreading of the Higher Education Act of 1965 at 20 USC 1082(a)(6). "

 

 

 

Clearly this guy is wrong. I don't know what else to tell you. 

[UNTLifer]

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/flashback-nancy-pelosi-says-president-lacks-authority-to-forgive-student-debt/

"In July of 2021, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said President Joe Biden does not have the executive authority to issue “debt forgiveness,” arguing that such action would be illegal and that it has “to be an act of Congress.”

“People think that the President of the United States has the power for debt forgiveness. He does not.  He can postpone. He can delay. But he does not have that power. That has to be an act of Congress,” Pelosi said July 28 at a press conference."

"The Department of Education agreed with Pelosi, arguing in a 2021 memo that the executive branch “does not have the statutory authority to cancel, compromise, discharge, or forgive, on a blanket or mass basis, principal balances of student loans, and/or to materially modify the repayment amounts or terms thereof.”

[Censored by Laurie]

1 minute ago, UNTLifer said:

And any student stupid enough to pursue this degree should have to live with the consequences.

so the entirety of that responsibility falls on the 18-20 year old, but none on the institution pushing it? 

[Coffee and TV]

6 minutes ago, keith said:

Nancy Pelosi would like to have a word with you.

I don't know what gotcha you think this is, you're going to need to explain. 

[El Paso Eagle]

Something to think about  -

If they tied, say 40 hours of community service hours to anyone that wanted the "forgiveness" how many would turn it down?

[MeanGreenTexan]

32 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

What is keeping someone from refinancing the loan?  Wasn't the student aware of this interest rate when they took out the loan?

Oh man, you're speaking from hindsight all the way.    It's a beautiful point of view.  The best, really.

Unfortunately, an 18-year-old who has to take out these loans has very little knowledge on interest rates and compounding interest.   The ones who would know about this, or have parents who do, likely have tuition taken care of already.

And (coming from hindsight, you already know this, but), if you have a large amount of loans out when you graduate, and your debt-to-income is stretched thin after financing a car & paying rent & other debts you take out..., do you think refinancing is going to bring the interest rate down much, if at all?

I agree with your "shifting of responsibility" opinion.   Cutting checks, IMO, is just a short-sighted solution, that really will only help in the long run, unless a borrower was responsible & almost done paying anyway.   Those who have $50-100k+ in debt are likely still paying the same amounts/mo for a very long time... like nothing changed except for how long they're paying.

[UNTLifer]

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Oh man, you're speaking from hindsight all the way.    It's a beautiful point of view.  The best, really.

Unfortunately, an 18-year-old who has to take out these loans has very little knowledge on interest rates and compounding interest.   The ones who would know about this, or have parents who do, likely have tuition taken care of already.

And (coming from hindsight, you already know this, but), if you have a large amount of loans out when you graduate, and your debt-to-income is stretched thin after financing a car & paying rent & other debts you take out..., do you think refinancing is going to bring the interest rate down much, if at all?

I agree with your "shifting of responsibility" opinion.   Cutting checks, IMO, is just a short-sighted solution, that really will only help in the long run, unless a borrower was responsible & almost done paying anyway.   Those who have $50-100k+ in debt are likely still paying the same amounts/mo for a very long time... like nothing changed except for how long they're paying.

So, when I was 16 and took out a loan from Denton Area Teacher's Credit Union to pay for my first car that my parents cosigned, I should have just defaulted and claimed ignorance?

[UNTLifer]

7 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

I don't know what gotcha you think this is, you're going to need to explain. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2021/07/28/pelosi-president-biden-does-not-have-power-to-cancel-student-loan-debt/?sh=40e9d42c5504

[UNTLifer]

9 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

so the entirety of that responsibility falls on the 18-20 year old, but none on the institution pushing it? 

So tired of this arguement.  Do something stupid, can't meet your responsibilities, didn't read the fine print, etc., shift blame, claim ignorance, beg forgiveness and ask someone else to shoulder your unpaid balance.

[Coffee and TV]

5 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2021/07/28/pelosi-president-biden-does-not-have-power-to-cancel-student-loan-debt/?sh=40e9d42c5504

So that makes her wrong too I guess? 

[Coffee and TV]

It's cool learning that despite the state government deregulating tuition while I was in the middle of my degree and tripling it over the course of my studies, I'm just bad with loans. Glad the people who all paid $13 a semester for their classes all have strong opinions on this and not the PPP loans that their congressman gifted to themselves with no intention of ever paying back. 

[UNTLifer]

It's cool how certain posters when provided with the facts dismiss them as:

"Clearly this guy is wrong. I don't know what else to tell you."

[MeanGreenTexan]

16 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

So, when I was 16 and took out a loan from Denton Area Teacher's Credit Union to pay for my first car that my parents cosigned, I should have just defaulted and claimed ignorance?

The car is the collateral.   You "default" on that, and you lose your car.

What would banks do with defaulted student loans?   Confiscate the knowledge you gained from your brain?

Also, if your parents co-sign something, they're on the hook too.   So they're going to ride your ass to make sure you make payments & don't get them in trouble.

You know all of this.

And again, I don't know if you can't figure out that you and I are saying the same thing about this "solution".  It's dumb.  It's bad.  It's unfair.

[TheColonyEagle]

If I'm running a university like a business....and someone (the Gov't in this instance) is saying "we have LOTS of money to give out to your "customers" what is the university going to do? Raise prices.

 

I graduated undergrad in 2000 and finished my MBA in '05....I paid my undergrad tuition each year with money I made during the summer...I think it was $1500 a semester or something? The company I went to work for paid for my MBA. While an undergrad, I was able to pay my rent and bills on my own working at Golden Triangle Mall and living on $3.99 all you can eat pizza buffets and  $.99 cent whoppers (put the cheese on at home). But I'm not going to pretend that my experience 20+ years ago could be repeated today. College students today are victims of a cartel/monopoly consisting of the Gov't giving away lots and lots of money and the universities taking advantage of this and jacking up their prices to astronomical levels. Eventually it catches up. The whole situation is like a Mob run business. 

Until people say "enough is enough....there's no ROI here" the Universities are going to keep living on that gravy train. Big bucks...

If I were an 18 year old HS grad today....I may not be headed to college. Simple as that. 

[Coffee and TV]

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

It's cool how certain posters when provided with the facts dismiss them as:

"Clearly this guy is wrong. I don't know what else to tell you."

I can link you until the cows come home and you'll still have the same opinion. 

https://www.vox.com/2022/8/24/23319967/student-loan-payments-debt-forgiveness-biden

[UNTLifer]

9 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

It's cool learning that despite the state government deregulating tuition while I was in the middle of my degree and tripling it over the course of my studies, I'm just bad with loans. Glad the people who all paid $13 a semester for their classes all have strong opinions on this and not the PPP loans that their congressman gifted to themselves with no intention of ever paying back. 

Man.  Never thought of it like that. Guess I will apply this to inflation.  I like steak, eat it every day, then Biden goes ape shit with inflation, not my fault, I like steak, not making any adjustments because that wasn't sold to me when I started liking steaks, going to keep buying them even though I can't afford them, just put them on my credit card and then bitch and moan when I can't pay my balance.  Guess I should have shifted to chicken, but that isn't what I was "promised" when developing my taste for steak.

Regarding shifting the discussion to PPP loans.  Another predictable tactic.

[UNTLifer]

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The car is the collateral.   You "default" on that, and you lose your car.

What would banks do with defaulted student loans?   Confiscate the knowledge you gained from your brain?

Also, if your parents co-sign something, they're on the hook too.   So they're going to ride your ass to make sure you make payments & don't get them in trouble.

You know all of this.

And again, I don't know if you can't figure out that you and I are saying the same thing about this "solution".  It's dumb.  It's bad.  It's unfair.

Exactly.  I paid for it.  It is not my responsibility to now pay for some kid's college debt.

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

If I'm running a university like a business....and someone (the Gov't in this instance) is saying "we have LOTS of money to give out to your "customers" what is the university going to do? Raise prices.

 

I graduated undergrad in 2000 and finished my MBA in '05....I paid my undergrad tuition each year with money I made during the summer...I think it was $1500 a semester or something? The company I went to work for paid for my MBA. While an undergrad, I was able to pay my rent and bills on my own working at Golden Triangle Mall and living on $3.99 all you can eat pizza buffets and  $.99 cent whoppers (put the cheese on at home). But I'm not going to pretend that my experience 20+ years ago could be repeated today. College students today are victims of a cartel/monopoly consisting of the Gov't giving away lots and lots of money and the universities taking advantage of this and jacking up their prices to astronomical levels. Eventually it catches up. The whole situation is like a Mob run business. 

Until people say "enough is enough....there's no ROI here" the Universities are going to keep living on that gravy train. Big bucks...

If I were an 18 year old HS grad today....I may not be headed to college. Simple as that. 

It's hard for some proud people to understand that times change.  It doesn't invalidate what they've accomplished.   But like you're saying, it doesn't mean their path can be duplicated today.

[Coffee and TV]

I'm not losing any argument because I'm not going to bother having one. I'm glad Biden did this, he didn't go far enough, and the boomer freakout is just a cherry on top of the sundae. Have fun with your social security that I'm paying into but will never see myself. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, UNTLifer said:

Exactly.  I paid for it.  It is not my responsibility to now pay for some kid's college debt.

Just understand that the cost of college today is WAY DIFFERENT than it was when you attended.    It's way easier to get upside down with loans trying to pay off an education that virtually everyone says you must have in order to get a high-paying job.

Want to help these kids pay that debt down?  Don't just write a check to them.  Cut the interest rates on the loans, so they can actually be paid down.

[Coffee and TV]

6 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Man.  Never thought of it like that.

Clearly you still aren't thinking when you try to compare a college education to steaks and chicken. 

[Censored by Laurie]

25 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

So tired of this arguement.  Do something stupid, can't meet your responsibilities, didn't read the fine print, etc., shift blame, claim ignorance, beg forgiveness and ask someone else to shoulder your unpaid balance.

I'm tired of this argument that the entirety of this crisis is down to simple irresponsibility on behalf of the borrowers. it's not just a lazy argument, but quantifiably incorrect. 

[UNTLifer]

4 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

I'm not losing any argument because I'm not going to bother having one. I'm glad Biden did this, he didn't go far enough, and the boomer freakout is just a cherry on top of the sundae. Have fun with your social security that I'm paying into but will never see myself. 

No.  I stated that it was unlawful for president to forgive debt, you asked for proof, I provided it, you call that man a liar/wrong, you linked an article from one of the most far Left media outlets that  explains what happened but doesn't address the legality of how.  It's typical Washington B.S.

It isn't a "Boomer freakout" as you state.  It is about responsibility and that you think with Joe's signature those loans just go poof.  Nope, the taxpayer now gets to cover the cost, thus further devaluing our dollar and driving inflation. 

Were the interest rates too high? Then eliminate the interest.  Reduce the loans down to the principle only.  That is owed, period.