Student Loan Forgiveness

[UNTLifer]

4 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

Clearly you still aren't thinking when you try to compare a college education to steaks and chicken. 

It's called a simple analogy.  Not surprised  you didn't comprehend it.

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, UNTLifer said:

...

Were the interest rates too high? Then eliminate the interest.  Reduce the loans down to the principle only.  That is owed, period.  

Over the life of some of these $50k - $100k+ loans, that amount would likely come out to MORE than what these relief checks would be for.   
But, it's hard to look a gift horse in the mouth when someone puts a check down in front of you to throw at the principal RIGHT NOW.

[Censored by Laurie]

11 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Man.  Never thought of it like that. Guess I will apply this to inflation.  I like steak, eat it every day, then Biden goes ape shit with inflation, not my fault, I like steak, not making any adjustments because that wasn't sold to me when I started liking steaks, going to keep buying them even though I can't afford them, just put them on my credit card and then bitch and moan when I can't pay my balance.  Guess I should have shifted to chicken, but that isn't what I was "promised" when developing my taste for steak.

like v. need. add this into this analogy:

throughout your entire life your parents, your peers and the FDA constantly told you that steak is what would keep you healthiest and strongest...and while it is possible to survive on the nutrients of chicken, your life wouldn't be as fulfilled. steak gave you a considerably higher ceiling for your future than chicken. 

so now that is a consideration that gets built into your dinner planning...man, steak is getting more and more expensive, but I'm still at the point where I think steak is best for me long-term so I'll start rationalizing decisions around what I've been sold my entire life is healthiest for me. 

[Coffee and TV]

11 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

No.  I stated that it was unlawful for president to forgive debt, you asked for proof, I provided it, you call that man a liar/wrong,

I never called you a liar, I just said you were wrong. And I never asked for proof, because I knew you were wrong. Sorry you can't handle someone telling you that.

 

11 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

you linked an article from one of the most far Left media outlets that  explains what happened but doesn't address the legality of how. 

But when you link the national review that's a totally unbias place, right? And there is an entire section in that article that addresses the legality, plain as day. 

 

11 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

It isn't a "Boomer freakout" as you state.  It is about responsibility and that you think with Joe's signature those loans just go poof.  Nope, the taxpayer now gets to cover the cost, thus further devaluing our dollar and driving inflation.

The tuition got the way it did because boomers like yourself kept voting in politicians to further defund public education every chance you got. You were supposed to be paying for my college in the first place but kept shunning that responsibility to my generation and left people with $60k in debt for a $30k salary. This is just the result of you and your ilk kicking the bucket down the road like boomers always do. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Coffee and TV

[Coffee and TV]

9 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

It's called a simple analogy.  Not surprised  you didn't comprehend it.

It's a shitty analogy, not surprised you can't comprehend why we're in this mess to begin with. 

[meanJewGreen]

they bailed out banks, farmers, airlines and no one says a word....

you bail out a little bit of student loan debt and people are up in arms.

 

Most jobs shouldn't even require a degree honestly. One year at UNT costs $26k + a bit more. Four years is 100k. This is absurd. Not only that, but expenses have gone up while salaries have stagnated. 

[Coffee and TV]

3 minutes ago, meanJewGreen said:

they bailed out banks, farmers, airlines and no one says a word....

you bail out a little bit of student loan debt and people are up in arms.

Bingo. Manufactured outrage. This country was spending trillions on war while I was racking up debt just to get an education for a degree. But sure, my priorities are the ones out of whack in this equation...

[Cr1028]

12 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

It isn't a "Boomer freakout" as you state.  It is about responsibility and that you think with Joe's signature those loans just go poof.  Nope, the taxpayer now gets to cover the cost, thus further devaluing our dollar and driving inflation. 

Were the interest rates too high? Then eliminate the interest.  Reduce the loans down to the principle only.  That is owed, period.  

Many of these loans have have been more than paid for due to the interest obligations. The government will just be missing their payment stream. 

I agree with your interest comment as well as @MeanGreenTexan’s that eliminating the interest would be the best solution for all involved. Make people feel like they are actually making progress and they will try to pay it faster. Otherwise they will just look at it as a somewhat lifelong obligation like a mortgage.

[GMG_Dallas]

9 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

like v. need. add this into this analogy:

throughout your entire life your parents, your peers and the FDA constantly told you that steak is what would keep you healthiest and strongest...and while it is possible to survive on the nutrients of chicken, your life wouldn't be as fulfilled. steak gave you a considerably higher ceiling for your future than chicken. 

so now that is a consideration that gets built into your dinner planning...man, steak is getting more and more expensive, but I'm still at the point where I think steak is best for me long-term so I'll start rationalizing decisions around what I've been sold my entire life is healthiest for me. 

Hopefully more read this post and try to understand where many of us came from.

First, I would be happy without loan forgiveness. I'm not calling for it. That said, as a first generation college graduate, I was told my entire childhood that I needed a college degree to succeed. It's been pushed on young adults for the past 20+ years at least. If I knew then what I know now, maybe I wouldn't have gone to college but I did because I was told it was necessary. As a 17-year-old, I was told if I couldn't pay, not to worry! The government will back any and all loans to ensure I can go to college. What that did though is make it to where universities can keep raising prices knowing the costs will always be paid for by somebody. Pleasant surprise was seeing I qualified for Pell grants since we were below the poverty line so at least my loan debt wasn't too much.

I understand working your way through college. I understand why some may be upset about this forgiveness. What many older generations or those who grew up well-off don't understand is the cost of education has skyrocketed well beyond wages due to federal backing of student loans. A lower-middle class family can no longer pay college tuition for their kids. What was once sold to kids as a way to succeed long-term is now somewhat of a financial trap. It's no longer possible to work part-time, or even full-time, and pay your way through most 4-year degree plans.

My only hope here is they find a way to slow the increased cost of tuition so people stop throwing their financial futures away at 18, well before they understand the cost of living.

[Mean Green 93-98]

12 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

. . . I understand, at least in principal, the opposition to student debt forgiveness. 

Pun intended? 

[Censored by Laurie]

4 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Pun intended? 

I was hoping someone would catch it

[Mean Green 93-98]

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

Why is it out of his authority to forgive loans, but they can pardon anyone that has been convicted by the judicial system?

The power to pardon is specifically granted to the President.  Whether it should or not is another question, but it is.

And, of course, what we are talking about goes far beyond merely pronouncing loans--or 10 or 20k worth of loans--"forgiven."  It requires the reallocation of significant amount of tax dollars, if not the further extortion of significant amount of tax dollars from the people.

[Mean Green 93-98]

31 minutes ago, meanJewGreen said:

they bailed out banks, farmers, airlines and no one says a word....

You must not have been paying attention.

[GMG_Dallas]

53 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

If I'm running a university like a business....and someone (the Gov't in this instance) is saying "we have LOTS of money to give out to your "customers" what is the university going to do? Raise prices.

 

I graduated undergrad in 2000 and finished my MBA in '05....I paid my undergrad tuition each year with money I made during the summer...I think it was $1500 a semester or something? The company I went to work for paid for my MBA. While an undergrad, I was able to pay my rent and bills on my own working at Golden Triangle Mall and living on $3.99 all you can eat pizza buffets and  $.99 cent whoppers (put the cheese on at home). But I'm not going to pretend that my experience 20+ years ago could be repeated today. College students today are victims of a cartel/monopoly consisting of the Gov't giving away lots and lots of money and the universities taking advantage of this and jacking up their prices to astronomical levels. Eventually it catches up. The whole situation is like a Mob run business. 

Until people say "enough is enough....there's no ROI here" the Universities are going to keep living on that gravy train. Big bucks...

If I were an 18 year old HS grad today....I may not be headed to college. Simple as that. 

Your experience could certainly not be repeated today unless you lived at home, had no car note (and related costs that came with it), and worked full-time. Then you might be able to make it happen but if you're a full-time student, that limits your study time. I worked part-time in college making $10/hour at 25 hours per weekand it just covered rent plus basic bills and this was 10 years ago. Appreciate you recognizing that. 

If you were an 18 year old HS grad today, you'd probably still go to college because that's what's being pushed on 18 year olds. Unless your parents know better, you'd still go. If your parents know better, it's likely because they're successful in whatever they do and know it's not necessary but I'd wager most of those needing help don't come from those kinds of families.

[greenminer]

44 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

like v. need. add this into this analogy:

throughout your entire life your parents, your peers and the FDA constantly told you that steak is what would keep you healthiest and strongest...and while it is possible to survive on the nutrients of chicken, your life wouldn't be as fulfilled. steak gave you a considerably higher ceiling for your future than chicken. 

so now that is a consideration that gets built into your dinner planning...man, steak is getting more and more expensive, but I'm still at the point where I think steak is best for me long-term so I'll start rationalizing decisions around what I've been sold my entire life is healthiest for me. 

This isn't perfectly accurate: let me do my best to make it so.  It just needs a little more:

Since 2005, the steaks that we are conditioned to believe we MUST have, have now lost nearly 50% of their iron and B12 benefits, while increasing the amount of saturated fat.

[Censored by Laurie]

4 minutes ago, greenminer said:

This isn't perfectly accurate: let me do my best to make it so.  It just needs a little more:

Since 2005, the steaks that we are conditioned to believe we MUST have, have now lost nearly 50% of their iron and B12 benefits, while increasing the amount of saturated fat.

totally. and then in '09 the FDA jumped in and told us all chicken was actually basically has healthy all along. and then around 2015 a bunch of free-thinkers were like "whoa...have you ever tried fish?!"

so now we've got a deeper appreciation for our protein choices...but there's decades worth of un-learning yet to do around what meat is right for us...and god-forbid you walk into 90% of the restaurants out there and try and order a trout filet or coq au vin...they'll laugh you right out of the place. 

(restaurants are jobs in this analogy)

[Cr1028]

2 hours ago, keith said:

A question for those of you who took out a loan to pay for college.  

Who did you borrow the money from?

For me after filling out my FAFSA, it was originally through the Department of Education, who sold it to Nelnet, who sold it to Wells Fargo, who sold it to another company, before it finally went back to the DOE when I filed my PSLF paperwork. 

[El Paso Eagle]

1 hour ago, Coffee and TV said:

I'm not losing any argument because I'm not going to bother having one. I'm glad Biden did this, he didn't go far enough, and the boomer freakout is just a cherry on top of the sundae. Have fun with your social security that I'm paying into but will never see myself. 

The only reason you, or anyone, has to pay anyone's social security is because both political parties have pissed away the original funds. Most people will never get back what they put in and the benefits they receive suck compared to what they would be given if they chose to never work or came here illegally. Not sure what the hell you issue is with boomers and thinking they have no right to their opinions but this seems to be one of you go-to push-backs for almost any topic. Guess you have mommy and daddy issues and were not included in activities with others growing up. Keep seeing your therapist and get the F&^* over yourself and you issues. Like I have said about you before, you genuinely seem to think you know more than anyone and that anyone who disagrees with you, epically Boomers, are idiots and you go out of your way to act like be an absolute asshole. Nice to know you were never helped by those who came before you. I guess when you were in school you actually had to let your teachers know what was right and wrong. 

[NT93]

@GMG_Dallas, @Censored by Laurie, and @TheColonyEagle for providing me a different perspective on student loan forgiveness.  Not sure why the thread was closed as it sure didn’t seem to me to go off the rails.  I actually thought most of the thread was a good discussion.  Anyway, since I didn’t get a chance to post before the lock, I wanted to specifically thank those I mentioned because they gave me a different lens from which to view the whole situation and gave me something to think about.  I’m sure this thread will be locked too, which is fine.  I just wanted to publicly say thank you.  Also, thanks to @El Paso Eaglefor getting the discussion started.

[TheColonyEagle]

I actually enjoy discussing some of these things with different sides. Debating can be fun as well. We really all have more in common than we don’t…

Also, I wish they didn’t get locked down so fast but oh well….