If Littrell beat UTEP will you forgive his past sins?

[untjim1995]

1 minute ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Nah, his recruiting was terrible.  He seemed like a good hire on paper, but he had no clue how to recruit.  He thought recruits would flock to him because of some past successes.

Yeah, his recruiting was bad because the archaic offense he ran didn't have any HS kids in Texas that played in a system made for leather helmets anymore. I just think he thought it was gonna be easy to recruit here because it was a huge state school located north of DFW, TX. It finally hit him in the face that the issues we have created here and face still are freaking hard to overcome.

Today, we still face the issues of:

1.) Apathy--basically 2% of UNT alumni follow the program enough to come to a game or donate. Attendance is based solely on who we are playing.

2.) Denton--incredibly poor support from the city and its citizens, who either dont care or actively loathe our existence.

3.) Lack of appreciation by TX HS Coaches and Parents when we are recruiting, especially now with NIL.

4.) Lack of media coverage--we have Brett Vito and...nobody else. The Ticket radio station in DFW does a college football preview this week on regional teams, including SMU, but not us. You cannot expect to ever even matter if the local media won't even cover you.

5.) Anything else you want to add...

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I loved every bit of that 2013 HOD win but let's not overvalue that win against a terrible 7-win opponent with only a handful of winning seasons in the past 30 years. SL played an 11-win Troy team that beat a top 25 LSU earlier in the year and an 11-win Utah State with a QB that was later drafted in the first round. I'm disappointed by the results but the HOD win doesn't put Danny Mac over SL.

This is a myopic take considering what happened 8 months ago in the inaugural Frisco Made-Up Classic Bowl (Shout out to NT's big gun donor for making it happen though!).

If we shouldn't "overvalue" the 2013 HOD win, what should we do with the non-competitive loss to Miami, OH??   They were literally the very last team that qualified for a bowl... like, if this made up bowl wasn't sponsored by GBR, they don't get to play.

Let your other valid points stand (both of those bowls were very very tough draws) without denigrating the best thing that's happened to NT football in the past decade outside of Mason Fine.

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

And I had a blast at the game.  Danny even said it was just the beginning, but he sat at the starting line.

Didn't his eye explode (like, literally), and he had a stroke within the same year after that bowl game?   

I wonder if he just sorta let his body check his mind out...  Like, "I can't do this at the same level anymore", after those things.

[Mean Green 93-98]

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Didn't his eye explode (like, literally), and he had a stroke within the same year after that bowl game?   

I wonder if he just sorta let his body check his mind out...  Like, "I can't do this at the same level anymore", after those things.

That happened very early in his tenure.  That's why he always wore shades after that.

I do think that ended up affecting his job performance.

[UNTcrazy727]

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

Yeah, I'm blaming the culture here on McCarney's failures. 

The guy was as optimistic as you could find from the moment he was hired in early 2011 until the fall of 2014. Then, with McNulty and Greer sucking hard, he just started losing it. 

And in 2014, we played SMU and LT in our first two home games at Apogee. And we didn't have anywhere close to a full house...after the best season we had had in a long, long time. I think it all just beat him into the ground.

Nah, he was dead after he failed to recruit anyone, especially at QB, his first couple years. I know you love to crap on UNT, but the culture had nothing to do with it. We could have had a sellout vs SMU in 2014 and nothing would have changed. 

For all his failings, at least Littrell has been able to replenish our talent enough to keep us from hitting rock bottom. Something Mac was unable to do. 

[GMG_Dallas]

36 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

This is a myopic take considering what happened 8 months ago in the inaugural Frisco Made-Up Classic Bowl (Shout out to NT's big gun donor for making it happen though!).

If we shouldn't "overvalue" the 2013 HOD win, what should we do with the non-competitive loss to Miami, OH??   They were literally the very last team that qualified for a bowl... like, if this made up bowl wasn't sponsored by GBR, they don't get to play.

Let your other valid points stand (both of those bowls were very very tough draws) without denigrating the best thing that's happened to NT football in the past decade outside of Mason Fine.

If UNT had beat 6-6 Miami of Ohio 8 months ago, would you hold that bowl win in higher regard than you do the Mason Fine years and back to back 9-win seasons despite no bowl wins?

I'm not crapping on the HOD win. I just don't think that alone puts Danny Mac over SL considering it was McCarney's only winning season here and the bowl opponent has little recognition in the football wold.

Edited August 19, 2022 by GMG_Dallas

[MeanGreenTexan]

12 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

If UNT had beat 6-6 Miami of Ohio 8 months ago, would you hold that bowl win in higher regard than you do the Mason Fine years and back to back 9-win seasons despite no bowl wins?

I'm not crapping on the HOD win. I just don't think that alone puts Danny Mac over SL considering it was McCarney's only winning season here and the bowl opponent has little recognition in the football wold.

I dunno.  I doubt it.   However, I certainly would have much more optimism headed into this season.   That non-competitive loss was like a confirmation of the first 6 games of the year (like watching late, uninspired McCarney-ball), instead of the validation of the last 6 games we were all hoping for.

EDIT:  I've said it before,  Littrell dug his own hole with how quickly he succeeded.  He then got paid, and the AD turned around and asked a lot more of the fans because of it.
Now, he can't live up to the very expectations he, himself, set.   And we're all stuck watching.

Edited August 19, 2022 by MeanGreenTexan

[UNTcrazy727]

13 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

If UNT had beat 6-6 Miami of Ohio 8 months ago, would you hold that bowl win in higher regard than you do the Mason Fine years and back to back 9-win seasons despite no bowl wins?

I'm not crapping on the HOD win. I just don't think that alone puts Danny Mac over SL considering it was McCarney's only winning season here and the bowl opponent has little recognition in the football wold.

Some people REALLY value bowl wins. I don't agree with it because I think bowls are becoming meaningless and you never know which teams are motivated to play. 

Give me 9-3 with a bowl loss over 7-5 with a bowl win all day. 

[RBP79]

5 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

What helped DT the most was that he had a solid defense to get him the ball back and a solid OL to block for him. Its why we were very bullish on DMac. He came here with a reputation for building up linemen, on both sides. He came with a smashmouth approach and an energetic personality.

And then North Texas' culture beat him into the ground, nearly killing him. He couldn't believe that fans wouldn't flock to the stadium after we won the HoD Bowl in 2013 and had a 9-win season. He couldn't believe recruits wouldn't even sniff coming here, despite our location and new conference affiliation in CUSA. And his view of Greer and McNulty being a legit busdriver went out the door long before he ever recognized that sad reality. Once La Tech beat the absolute crap out of us in 2014 at home, his momentum as our head coach was starting very quickly to die. And a year later, against FCS Portland State, on Homecoming, while winless, we suffered the worst loss in modern college football, losing 66-7, and that era of UNT football was over. It truly was a situation that nobody could've imagined happening on January 1st, 2014 at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas.

One thing DMac had that I think has to be in the next coach is personality. Very positive, very uplifting in those first 3.5 years he was in Denton. Loved hearing him talk about this place and its potential. The moment that I knew he was done was when he was complaining about this still being North Texas and not getting recruits. It was the Dickey model that was sure to fail once any remaining talent on the team left. And it's exactly what happened. SL has zero personality--just mumbles and paces along the sideline, with absolutely no connection to the UNT community, which has certainly grown some, but is still in big need of someone to galvanize the community here to grow exponentially. Even if he gets his extension, which I believe he will because of the easy schedule, he isn't the guy to ever truly bring us into being a ranked program. Its why I love the Gary Patterson idea--immediate reputation as being a great coach, a hard-hitting identity, and a guy who can galvanize the community. He did in FW, which I know is severely different from Denton, but I think he could bring some of that swagger here. Maybe not, maybe this place is just not meant to ever be anything more than it's been since Fry left town in 1978. But GP is the closest thing to Hayden Fry that we could duplicate here, hiring someone fired from a local SWC team and still having enough connections and enough fire in the belly to make things happen in Denton. And that's the only hire we have ever made that turned golden for us in the last 50 years of football.

You had me til that extension thing....

[GMG_Dallas]

23 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I dunno.  I doubt it.   However, I certainly would have much more optimism headed into this season.   That non-competitive loss was like a confirmation of the first 6 games of the year (like watching late, uninspired McCarney-ball), instead of the validation of the last 6 games we were all hoping for.

EDIT:  I've said it before,  Littrell dug his own hole with how quickly he succeeded.  He then got paid, and the AD turned around and asked a lot more of the fans because of it.
Now, he can't live up to the very expectations he, himself, set.   And we're all stuck watching.

Well you're in luck! That same sub-50% completion percentage and 0/2 TD/INT performance we ended the season with will be starting us off in 8 days!

You're probably right about SL but is that his fault? I mean, how dare he strike QB gold right off the bat with Fine and have back-to-back 9 win seasons so quickly in his tenure! I think it is unfortunate (as it pertains to his overall evaluation) that the offensive success came so quickly after he took over. Fine masked so many deficiencies and late game heroics gave us a better record than we probably should have had considering the roster he inherited. Our defense wasn't up to par many of Fines years. Recruiting, especially on defense, just hadn't caught up from the hole dug during the McCarney years. It looks better now except for the QB! If he put 2020-2021's rosters with Fine, that'd be something else.

Edits for spelling.. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by GMG_Dallas

[UNTcrazy727]

3 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Well you're in luck! That same sub-50% completion percentage and 0/2 TD/INT performance we ended the season with will be starting us off in 8 days!

You're probably right about SL but is that his fault? I mean, how dare he strike QB gold right off the bat with Fine and have back-to-back 9 win seasons so quickly in his tenure! I think it is unfortunate that the offensive success came so quickly after he took over. Fine masked so many deficiencies and late game heroics gave us a better record than we probably should have had considering the roster he inherited. Our defense wasn't up to par many of Fines years. Recruiting, especially on defense, just hadn't caught up from the hole dug during the McCarney years.

Forget the defense, if Fine just had an AVERAGE offensive line we would have back-to-back 10 win seasons and a couple CUSA West titles. 

[greenminer]

6 hours ago, Dannymacfan said:

Danny was a jewel and I am still very disappointed that UNT let him go.  That firing probably set the program back a decade.  He had one bad game and they cut bait.  Huge mistake by the BOR and RV.

 

5 hours ago, Dannymacfan said:

Actually Danny won a bowl game for us can Seth say that?   Thanks I'll hang up and listen.

Y'all, Dannymacfan has graduated from poster to troll.  These are just too good.

[greenminer]

51 minutes ago, texx2818 said:

Carlos Harris had essentially started a clothing line.

also true.

[NT80]

7 hours ago, Harry said:

I agree that winning the UTEP game won't make or break Littrell.  That said, going on the road to what is basically another country and playing in front of a sold out rowdy crowd to open up possibly your defining season is a BIG deal.  Littrell is battling not only for his job but also his ability to remain a FBS head coach.  The stakes are extremely high this season for Littrell and UNT.  Beating UTEP could really change the perception and mindset of the fanbase in regards to Littrell heading into a battle against SMU at home.   I could see at UTEP win on the road impact attendance in a big way for that SMU game as well.  Maybe 5K+.

I agree Harry that a good win at UTEP would give the team and UNT fans a much-needed dose of momentum heading into Smut week, and the rest of the season.

Still, it's just hard to envision such early success in a hostile environment after the debacle we saw in Frisco with basically the same cast of players and coaches.  

[tmjerm]

Carlos Harris was very much a bottoming out of the DMac era.  Complete train wreck. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, tmjerm said:

Carlos Harris was very much a bottoming out of the DMac era.  Complete train wreck. 

Carlos Harris was one of a handful of guys who was still giving everything he had during those lean years.  He was virtually the only guy making any plays at all on that 2014 team (and outside of freshman phenom Jeff Wilson, the 2015 team as well).
Hot-headed, eccentric, sure!  But we shouldn’t rewrite history to make it sound like he was a bum.

[Cr1028]

16 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Carlos Harris was one of a handful of guys who was still giving everything he had during those lean years.  He was virtually the only guy making any plays at all on that 2014 team (and outside of freshman phenom Jeff Wilson, the 2015 team as well).
Hot-headed, eccentric, sure!  But we shouldn’t rewrite history to make it sound like he was a bum.

He had great hands and a quarterback that didn’t know how to get the ball in the vicinity of any other receivers.

[Mean Green 93-98]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Carlos Harris was one of a handful of guys who was still giving everything he had during those lean years.  He was virtually the only guy making any plays at all on that 2014 team (and outside of freshman phenom Jeff Wilson, the 2015 team as well).
Hot-headed, eccentric, sure!  But we shouldn’t rewrite history to make it sound like he was a bum.

I assume the "train wreck" comment had a whole lot more to do with Carlos's attitude than his ability.  Yes, he was the most talented receiver in the post-Brelan/pre-Littrell period.  But some of the other stuff...I'd rather not rehash it, but safe to say it wasn't pushing the train in the right direction.

[untjim1995]

3 hours ago, texx2818 said:

He was the reason the team quit at Portland State. Many of the players tanked that game specifically to get Mac fired because his alcohol problem was brutal by then.

I’ll really leave it at that.

Well, they certainly quit that day…leaving us with a legacy that we will almost assuredly never lose, the title of worst loss in modern college football history. I mean, congrats on quitting and shitting on the school that gave you a full scholarship. That would’ve been a game I’d have bet we could win had we cared to even try. And winnable games that season basically came down to this one, UTSA here with their 6th string QB, and a UTEP team that we lost to in the finale because Canales wanted everyone to play in their last game and Josh Greer came in and threw a pick-six, which eventually led to us losing a close game. 

[tmjerm]

7 hours ago, texx2818 said:

I was pretty close to the team back then, and I’ll just leave my opinion of him alone. Crazy talented, but him and his father were more concerned with themselves than the program. In the end, neither won and I consider that karma.

Precisely.  

[p_phelps]

I'm confused,  utep hasn't been good for a long time, while they seem to be heading the the right direction idk how beating a team you SHOULD beat helps secure your job. Go beat smu, go have a winning season,  go win a bowl game.

[Jonnyeagle]

3 minutes ago, p_phelps said:

I'm confused,  utep hasn't been good for a long time, while they seem to be heading the the right direction idk how beating a team you SHOULD beat helps secure your job. Go beat smu, go have a winning season,  go win a bowl game.

Have you been watching our team friend?  We’ve barely squeaked out wins against UTEP the past two seasons.

[RBP79]

16 hours ago, NT80 said:

I agree Harry that a good win at UTEP would give the team and UNT fans a much-needed dose of momentum heading into Smut week, and the rest of the season.

Still, it's just hard to envision such early success in a hostile environment after the debacle we saw in Frisco with basically the same cast of players and coaches.  

When your Primary Offensive Weapon decides not to play and you have several defensive blunders attributed to player attitude......yea....it was a debacle.

 

 

[97and03]

On 8/19/2022 at 8:40 AM, GMG_Dallas said:

Aune can at least throw the ball deep. Can he complete it? Rarely. I don't think I ever saw McNulty actually get the ball down field. So I guess at least there's that.

Also no nepotism in Aune’s selection as starter. Huge difference between being conservative and choosing to waste a scholarship on your buddy’s kid. 

[p_phelps]

1 hour ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Have you been watching our team friend?  We’ve barely squeaked out wins against UTEP the past two seasons.

My point,  beating them shouldn't change his job security at all