I only wish Denton would support UNT like this…

[greenminer]

On 8/7/2022 at 1:31 PM, GrandGreen said:

Why would you want to discount what is the most salable game on NT's schedule? 

If I'm the AD and I want to appear to be going "all in" or bold, I'm going to create the most ridiculous ticket sale, highlighting the opponent of the year.

Your post kind of implies the opposite: maximize tickets for an opponent that nobody cares about.  You know how much extra foot traffic that will generate? none.  No one is gonna change their mind for a game they never had interest in the first place.

A SMU ticket sale might actually sellout Apogee which, you know, we've never had before.

[GrandGreen]

7 hours ago, greenminer said:

If I'm the AD and I want to appear to be going "all in" or bold, I'm going to create the most ridiculous ticket sale, highlighting the opponent of the year.

Your post kind of implies the opposite: maximize tickets for an opponent that nobody cares about.  You know how much extra foot traffic that will generate? none.  No one is gonna change their mind for a game they never had interest in the first place.

A SMU ticket sale might actually sellout Apogee which, you know, we've never had before.

Even heavily subsidized college football has to be governed by supply and demand economics.  Selling tickets becomes more difficult when you are giving them away.  

I suspect Baker had rather have a paying crowd of 25,000 versus a sell-out of 30,000 plus with discounted or free tickets.  It is about revenue not records. 

 

 

[NT80]

6 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I suspect Baker had rather have a paying crowd of 25,000 versus a sell-out of 30,000 plus with discounted or free tickets.  It is about revenue not records. 

Yes, he needs $$ for the buyout.

[untphd]

1 minute ago, NT80 said:

Yes, he needs $$ for the buyout.

Wouldn't records help build revenue?

[Pavlovs Eagle]

53 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I suspect Baker had rather have a paying crowd of 25,000 versus a sell-out of 30,000 plus with discounted or free tickets.  It is about revenue not records. 

I disagree. 

UNT football's home product at Apogee is only good 6 Saturdays a year and is highly perishable and grossly underutilized.

What does it cost Apogee to fill a seat?  $2 for janitorial fees and $1 for security?  What is the likelihood that the seat will buy $25 in concessions that are high margin? Highly likely. What is the chance the person attending will buy a readily available high margin orange or blue lot parking pass? Highly likely.  What is the immeasurable short-term/long-term goodwill valuation for getting that butt in a seat? As we attempt to build long term attendance, it's HIGHLY valuable to fill those seats every Saturday.  the AD has to build repetition in the minds of alums and Denton residents that UNT football is the most fun you can have on a Saturday in the fall.  

 

[untphd]

24 minutes ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

I disagree. 

UNT football's home product at Apogee is only good 6 Saturdays a year and is highly perishable and grossly underutilized.

What does it cost Apogee to fill a seat?  $2 for janitorial fees and $1 for security?  What is the likelihood that the seat will buy $25 in concessions that are high margin? Highly likely. What is the chance the person attending will buy a readily available high margin orange or blue lot parking pass? Highly likely.  What is the immeasurable short-term/long-term goodwill valuation for getting that butt in a seat? As we attempt to build long term attendance, it's HIGHLY valuable to fill those seats every Saturday.  the AD has to build repetition in the minds of alums and Denton residents that UNT football is the most fun you can have on a Saturday in the fall.  

 

It looks like somebody finally gets it. 

[untjim1995]

59 minutes ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

I disagree. 

UNT football's home product at Apogee is only good 6 Saturdays a year and is highly perishable and grossly underutilized.

What does it cost Apogee to fill a seat?  $2 for janitorial fees and $1 for security?  What is the likelihood that the seat will buy $25 in concessions that are high margin? Highly likely. What is the chance the person attending will buy a readily available high margin orange or blue lot parking pass? Highly likely.  What is the immeasurable short-term/long-term goodwill valuation for getting that butt in a seat? As we attempt to build long term attendance, it's HIGHLY valuable to fill those seats every Saturday.  the AD has to build repetition in the minds of alums and Denton residents that UNT football is the most fun you can have on a Saturday in the fall.  

 

Your post is perfect...great job in showing why getting anyone into a seat that would otherwise be empty is so valuable. You will get other revenue from concessions, souvenirs, parking, etc...not to mention the potential to create new fans and or students for the future.

[GrandGreen]

1 hour ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

I disagree. 

UNT football's home product at Apogee is only good 6 Saturdays a year and is highly perishable and grossly underutilized.

What does it cost Apogee to fill a seat?  $2 for janitorial fees and $1 for security?  What is the likelihood that the seat will buy $25 in concessions that are high margin? Highly likely. What is the chance the person attending will buy a readily available high margin orange or blue lot parking pass? Highly likely.  What is the immeasurable short-term/long-term goodwill valuation for getting that butt in a seat? As we attempt to build long term attendance, it's HIGHLY valuable to fill those seats every Saturday.  the AD has to build repetition in the minds of alums and Denton residents that UNT football is the most fun you can have on a Saturday in the fall.  

 

Thank you  Russ Potts

You really think NT pays 60k for janitorial fees and $30k for security per game?

Or for that matter, a crowd of 30,000 generates anywhere close to $750,000 in concession sales

Why would  fans that only shows up because of low ticket prices, suddenly spend $25 a piece for refreshments? 

[UNTLifer]

18 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Why would  fans that only shows up because of low ticket prices, suddenly spend $25 a piece for refreshments? 

Because their wife and kids get hungry and thirsty during the game?

[NM Green]

What about promotions. I mean we’re talking 6 Saturdays. Go the Texas Rangers route and get creative with 6 alluring promotions a season. They pop up promotions on the fly.  Scan your ticket a second time for the free gift.

First 15,000 get a Mason Fine bobble head! Tell me that wouldn’t sell out Apogee. Make it against UTSA 2023.

How about a Safeway Bowl trophy against SMU. A cool commemorative tee against Rice that reads THE STAND with the players dressed as matrix style ninjas and the date. We stopped them every which way that night.

Have a Cincy bowl win promotion.  UNLV night. I mean even we have enough history to come up with 3 years of promos. And the top two: Mean Joe Green hard hat night. And of course a slick frame able Peter Pan poster in a sea of red. The stand still shot. The run up the sideline shot. Celebration in the end zone shot.

Get creative and fill our dens with cool memorabilia.

GMG

[untjim1995]

13 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Because their wife and kids get hungry and thirsty during the game?

Save your time, LIfer...it's not worth it.

[GrandGreen]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Because their wife and kids get hungry and thirsty during the game?

A piece denotes one person does it not?  Or do you assume that multiple people are sitting in one seat?

 

[NT80]

2 hours ago, NM Green said:

What about promotions. I mean we’re talking 6 Saturdays. Go the Texas Rangers route and get creative with 6 alluring promotions a season. They pop up promotions on the fly.  Scan your ticket a second time for the free gift.

First 15,000 get a Mason Fine bobble head! Tell me that wouldn’t sell out Apogee. Make it against UTSA 2023.

How about a Safeway Bowl trophy against SMU. A cool commemorative tee against Rice that reads THE STAND with the players dressed as matrix style ninjas and the date. We stopped them every which way that night.

Have a Cincy bowl win promotion.  UNLV night. I mean even we have enough history to come up with 3 years of promos. And the top two: Mean Joe Green hard hat night. And of course a slick frame able Peter Pan poster in a sea of red. The stand still shot. The run up the sideline shot. Celebration in the end zone shot.

Get creative and fill our dens with cool memorabilia.

GMG

A BIG Yes to promotions.  The AD also needs to get the non-attached regular citizens wanting to come to a UNT game.  I think if you make them feel wanted as a fan they will adopt UNT, even though they have no connection to it.

But I have heard nothing about any Marketing plan.  Just crickets chirping.....

[UNTLifer]

8 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

A piece denotes one person does it not?  Or do you assume that multiple people are sitting in one seat?

 

Because that one person got hot, thirsty and hungry.  Better?

Edited August 16, 2022 by UNTLifer

[Tom McKrackin]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:26 PM, NM Green said:

What about promotions. I mean we’re talking 6 Saturdays. Go the Texas Rangers route and get creative with 6 alluring promotions a season. They pop up promotions on the fly.  Scan your ticket a second time for the free gift.

First 15,000 get a Mason Fine bobble head! Tell me that wouldn’t sell out Apogee. Make it against UTSA 2023.

How about a Safeway Bowl trophy against SMU. A cool commemorative tee against Rice that reads THE STAND with the players dressed as matrix style ninjas and the date. We stopped them every which way that night.

Have a Cincy bowl win promotion.  UNLV night. I mean even we have enough history to come up with 3 years of promos. And the top two: Mean Joe Green hard hat night. And of course a slick frame able Peter Pan poster in a sea of red. The stand still shot. The run up the sideline shot. Celebration in the end zone shot.

Get creative and fill our dens with cool memorabilia.

GMG

Great ideas man.  We need you in the AD office immediately!

[Arkstfan]

These are always fun threads whether on my board or Harry's.

A scattering of thoughts.

One. UTEP attendance yo-yo's always has. There have been times people are excited and they drew good crowds and there have been times Al Quadea could have thrown a down grenades into the stands and no one would have gotten hurt.

Two. I do not think AD's think much deeper about ticket prices than "we usually draw this much and I need this much per ticket to make budget and keep the VP for Finance from crawling up my rear". Reality is I suspect most schools with any sort of support underprice their most desired tickets and overprice their least desirable tickets. The days of cramming a bunch on people on bleachers and everyone paying the same price are long gone. I pay a little over $175 per seat per game for tickets in loge. There is a waiting list. AState's club seats go for $335 a game there is a waiting list. I don't know what suites go for. There is a waiting list. Upper deck bleachers looking into the sun I think are $20, late season when the weather starts sucking on sale sometimes for as little as $5. I do not have an MBA but I believe either the premium seating is underpriced, or we need to undertake constructing more premium seats at current price to meet demand. The empty seats are either over-priced or the just isn't demand for them and maybe the smarter thing is to remove those seats so the supply of seats is more in line with demand.
I also suspect there are any number of Excel spreadsheet wizards who can calculate a pricing curve that recognizes you drop prices too much the added sales leaves you with less revenue and higher pricing can go so high demand falls resulting in lower revenue.

Three. Football is a zero sum game. Every game produces a winner or loser. If winning is only path to attendance and atmosphere you've got a problem because half of FBS schools are going to lose when facing another FBS. 

Four. Schedule is a cop out. The market forces result in like schools generally grouping together in conferences so four home games are going to be something much like yourself and if that won't get the boys and girls to come watch, the problem isn't the opponent, it's the home team isn't what the market wants. Non-conference there is so much voodoo in what ADs are thinking that it can be a mess. You've got schools who need 7 or even 8 home games to maximize revenue. Hard to get them to come a visiting. Generally those who want to play home-home are pretty much like looking in the mirror. Same issue as above.

Everyone thinks gimmick when they need to think culture. Oh School X has inflatables for the kids and they draw well. Sorry but NO ONE is shelling out $20 a ticket and fight game day traffic for Junior to bop around on inflatables for 30 minutes. Where that work is places where it is just another amenity in the greater game day experience. Hell I'd look at the local society pages, identify anyone not involved in the program and persuade them to come tailgate and hook them up to a tailgate experience and make sure the area society page rag photographers are on hand to take their photo. Alumni Office ought to be doing similar for alumni newsletter/email. On my site one year I shot video of tailgates and interviewed people tailgating. What are you cooking, what's your rig set up, how'd you get started. Crap like that matters to people. Find me a damn school social media expert who ever touches that. 

You get six home games and the guys on the home benches are the constant for all six. Selling people on watching the guys in the home uniforms where the whole the thing succeeds or fails.

[MeanGreenTexan]

7 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

These are always fun threads whether on my board or Harry's.

A scattering of thoughts.

... there have been times Al Quadea could have thrown a down grenades into the stands and no one would have gotten hurt.

...

[MeanGreenHoops]

9 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

Everyone thinks gimmick when they need to think culture. Oh School X has inflatables for the kids and they draw well. Sorry but NO ONE is shelling out $20 a ticket and fight game day traffic for Junior to bop around on inflatables for 30 minutes. Where that work is places where it is just another amenity in the greater game day experience. Hell I'd look at the local society pages, identify anyone not involved in the program and persuade them to come tailgate and hook them up to a tailgate experience and make sure the area society page rag photographers are on hand to take their photo. Alumni Office ought to be doing similar for alumni newsletter/email. On my site one year I shot video of tailgates and interviewed people tailgating. What are you cooking, what's your rig set up, how'd you get started. Crap like that matters to people. Find me a damn school social media expert who ever touches that. 

You get six home games and the guys on the home benches are the constant for all six. Selling people on watching the guys in the home uniforms where the whole the thing succeeds or fails.

[97and03]

9 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

These are always fun threads whether on my board or Harry's.

A scattering of thoughts.

One. UTEP attendance yo-yo's always has. There have been times people are excited and they drew good crowds and there have been times Al Quadea could have thrown a down grenades into the stands and no one would have gotten hurt.

Two. I do not think AD's think much deeper about ticket prices than "we usually draw this much and I need this much per ticket to make budget and keep the VP for Finance from crawling up my rear". Reality is I suspect most schools with any sort of support underprice their most desired tickets and overprice their least desirable tickets. The days of cramming a bunch on people on bleachers and everyone paying the same price are long gone. I pay a little over $175 per seat per game for tickets in loge. There is a waiting list. AState's club seats go for $335 a game there is a waiting list. I don't know what suites go for. There is a waiting list. Upper deck bleachers looking into the sun I think are $20, late season when the weather starts sucking on sale sometimes for as little as $5. I do not have an MBA but I believe either the premium seating is underpriced, or we need to undertake constructing more premium seats at current price to meet demand. The empty seats are either over-priced or the just isn't demand for them and maybe the smarter thing is to remove those seats so the supply of seats is more in line with demand.
I also suspect there are any number of Excel spreadsheet wizards who can calculate a pricing curve that recognizes you drop prices too much the added sales leaves you with less revenue and higher pricing can go so high demand falls resulting in lower revenue.

Three. Football is a zero sum game. Every game produces a winner or loser. If winning is only path to attendance and atmosphere you've got a problem because half of FBS schools are going to lose when facing another FBS. 

Four. Schedule is a cop out. The market forces result in like schools generally grouping together in conferences so four home games are going to be something much like yourself and if that won't get the boys and girls to come watch, the problem isn't the opponent, it's the home team isn't what the market wants. Non-conference there is so much voodoo in what ADs are thinking that it can be a mess. You've got schools who need 7 or even 8 home games to maximize revenue. Hard to get them to come a visiting. Generally those who want to play home-home are pretty much like looking in the mirror. Same issue as above.

Everyone thinks gimmick when they need to think culture. Oh School X has inflatables for the kids and they draw well. Sorry but NO ONE is shelling out $20 a ticket and fight game day traffic for Junior to bop around on inflatables for 30 minutes. Where that work is places where it is just another amenity in the greater game day experience. Hell I'd look at the local society pages, identify anyone not involved in the program and persuade them to come tailgate and hook them up to a tailgate experience and make sure the area society page rag photographers are on hand to take their photo. Alumni Office ought to be doing similar for alumni newsletter/email. On my site one year I shot video of tailgates and interviewed people tailgating. What are you cooking, what's your rig set up, how'd you get started. Crap like that matters to people. Find me a damn school social media expert who ever touches that. 

You get six home games and the guys on the home benches are the constant for all six. Selling people on watching the guys in the home uniforms where the whole the thing succeeds or fails.

“the problem isn't the opponent, it's the home team isn't what the market wants.”

 

this 

[Pavlovs Eagle]

On 8/15/2022 at 11:53 AM, GrandGreen said:

You really think NT pays 60k for janitorial fees and $30k for security per game?

You're probably right... Which only makes my original point more poignant. It costs NOTHING to put butts in the metal bleachers.

We aren't a 5 Star hotel that is at risk of damaging our reputation by selling our $800 a night rooms for $75 day of.  We're a G5 football program with A+ GameDay facilities and perpetually poor fan and student support.  What are we going to damage by having $10 BOGO tickets for the wing?  You risk making a few season tix holders mad, but let's be honest, you know you're donating to a charity if you purchase bleacher season tix.  There's always a way to get them cheaper than the season tix cost today.