I only wish Denton would support UNT like this…

[untjim1995]

10 minutes ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Denton will support this program when AND ONLY WHEN then win consistently!  We have not EVER done this in the history of the program.  And no this does not mean going 9-5 and losing the conference either!  The only coach who consistently won here in the modern era has been Daryl Dickey and Hayden Fry.   And that's one of the reasons I am so disappointed in Wren because he had an opportunity to change this by making a move last season and he took the easy road and just left Littrell in place.

Even when we won under Fry and Dickey, our attendance was nothing to jump up and down about. But I suspect that the Dickey years of beating SBC spares only for two of those years was never gonna convince UNT fans to show up. Ironically, though, those NO Bowls had thousands of UNT fans that probably couldn't even tell you where Fouts Field was on a map.

[GrandGreen]

10 hours ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Denton will support this program when AND ONLY WHEN then win consistently!  We have not EVER done this in the history of the program.  And no this does not mean going 9-5 and losing the conference either!  The only coach who consistently won here in the modern era has been Daryl Dickey and Hayden Fry.   And that's one of the reasons I am so disappointed in Wren because he had an opportunity to change this by making a move last season and he took the easy road and just left Littrell in place.

There are few if any AD's that would have fired Littrell after the finish NT had last year.  I would have preferred a coaching change, but IMO Littrell earned another year even with a very disappointing bowl performance. 

Many seem to assume that a new hire is going to be more successful.  Certainly not guaranteed and if history is any indication, probably unlikely.

DD obviously didn't consistently win here, he won and should be lauded for it in a new conference with mostly weak teams.  DD killed his own program with his lackluster recruiting compounded by his health issues.  

Not sure what you call the modern era, but Rod Rust did pretty well before Fry.  

Littrell is here for next season, and I believe will have to record at least a winning season to get any kind of extension.  Eight wins probably gets him a new contract, less than seven wins and he is likely gone.  A 7 win season is a coin toss with how NT finished probably the primary factor in a hiring/firing decision.  

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by GrandGreen

[zenhuddy]

I think if you look over a 20 year timeline there has been some real positive moves thanks to some deep pocketed Alumni/Boosters particularly in the last 5. We have more support from the President down to make us more visible and the move to the AAC and or this NIL work will continue to boost our rep. But all this being said its all about wins and losses at the end of the season - We cannot move the attendance needle if we can't produce 8+ wins per season period (maybe 9). We appear to finally getting a higher grade or 3star players and some decent portal activity that could translate to this 8-9 game winning team - remember last year we lost what should have been our star RB before the season started and 2 top WR's in the 1st two weeks so 8 or 9 wins was toast. Maybe with the continued depth improvement we can weather the storm better as injuries are part of FB life! Bottom Line from my story is we are today a "fair weather" crowd and the only way to move away from that is 2-3 solid years of 8-9 wins campaigns with 2 of those 3 years producing a bowl winner to excite the Denton and surrounding metro area. Kicking SMU's azz always is a bonus! We keep crawling in the back door to bowls and winning the min 6 and we are still whining about this for the coming years. JMO    I am hoping this is a big transition starting year, but I am the terminal optimist! #GMG #WinTheDay #Family 

[Withers940]

Two things:

1) Ive heard more about UTEPS opener and them promoting it than Ive heard of our promoting of our first home game..

 

2)Our GA tickets are too expensive at $20 in my honest opinion. I might be way off my rocker here but if your not selling the majority of your tickets then they are too expensive. Yes, you have upkeep but if you dont sell the tickets you have, then youre not making any money to begin with. If you drop the ticket prices to $5-$10, you are going to sell a lot more and all those people are going to come into the game and buy sodas, beer, food and souvenirs. The AD's goal should be able to get butts in the seats and create an atmosphere kids want to come play in front of and if you can consistently sell out your GA tickets then think about an increase. 

[GrandGreen]

42 minutes ago, Withers940 said:

Two things:

1) Ive heard more about UTEPS opener and them promoting it than Ive heard of our promoting of our first home game..

 

2)Our GA tickets are too expensive at $20 in my honest opinion. I might be way off my rocker here but if your not selling the majority of your tickets then they are too expensive. Yes, you have upkeep but if you dont sell the tickets you have, then youre not making any money to begin with. If you drop the ticket prices to $5-$10, you are going to sell a lot more and all those people are going to come into the game and buy sodas, beer, food and souvenirs. The AD's goal should be able to get butts in the seats and create an atmosphere kids want to come play in front of and if you can consistently sell out your GA tickets then think about an increase. 

The only way for NT to sell more tickets is win more games and play a better home schedule.   Heavily discounting tickets may gain more attendance for the discounted games, but it never seems to work at building a lasting fanbase. 

The movie model of selling tickets at low prices and charging outrageous drink and popcorn prices works, but you still have to have a game that people want to see.  

I have been going to NT games for a long time, and seen about every kind of promotion; none really work.  There is no quick fix, just schedule games people want to see and win most of them. 

 

[RBP79]

 

20 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

There are few if any AD's that would have fired Littrell after the finish NT had last year.  I would have preferred a coaching change, but IMO Littrell earned another year even with a very disappointing bowl performance. 

Many seem to assume that a new hire is going to be more successful.  Certainly not guaranteed and if history is any indication probably unlikely.

DD obviously didn't consistently win here, he won and should be lauded for it in a new conference with mostly weak teams.  DD killed his own program with lackluster recruiting compounded by his health issues.  

Not sure what you call the modern era, but Rod Rust did pretty well before Fry.  

Littrell is here for next season, and I believe will to have at least a winning season to get any kind of extension.  Eight wins probably get him a new contract, less than seven wins and he is likely gone.  A 7 win season is a coin toss with how NT finished probably the primary factor in a hiring/firing decision.  

 

 

 

7 or 8 wins but one HAS to be a bowl.

Edited August 5, 2022 by RBP79

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

The only way for NT to sell more tickets is win more games and play a better home schedule.   Heavily discounting tickets may gain more attendance for the discounted games, but it never seems to work at building a lasting fanbase. 

The movie model of selling tickets at low prices and charging outrageous drink and popcorn prices works, but you still have to have a game that people want to see.  

I have been going to NT games for a long time, and seen about every kind of promotion; none really work.  There is no quick fix, just schedule games people want to see and win most of them. 

 

I agree, but I think the point @Withers940was making is that $20 for a GA/wing seat is too much.  Maybe charge $20 for the lower level end zone and $10 for the upper level seats in the wing.  

[untphd]

2 hours ago, Withers940 said:

Two things:

1) Ive heard more about UTEPS opener and them promoting it than Ive heard of our promoting of our first home game..

 

2)Our GA tickets are too expensive at $20 in my honest opinion. I might be way off my rocker here but if your not selling the majority of your tickets then they are too expensive. Yes, you have upkeep but if you dont sell the tickets you have, then youre not making any money to begin with. If you drop the ticket prices to $5-$10, you are going to sell a lot more and all those people are going to come into the game and buy sodas, beer, food and souvenirs. The AD's goal should be able to get butts in the seats and create an atmosphere kids want to come play in front of and if you can consistently sell out your GA tickets then think about an increase. 

Just curious, when will we start promoting out games? Just asking for a friend, she didn't know.

[Salsa_Verde]

UTEP doing everything it can not to get stuck in CUSA. If we end up losing this game (which I loath to admit I have a really bad feeling about) then all this support talk will be a mute point. People, organizations, businesses etc. want to be associated with a wining product. Bottom line. 

[97and03]

$20 is not a lot for a ticket to a sporting event. 

[UNTLifer]

27 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

$20 is not a lot for a ticket to a sporting event. 

Sorry, I wouldn't drop $20 to sit in the wing.  I know I wouldn't bring my family and drop $80

[Coffee and TV]

1 hour ago, 97and03 said:

$20 is not a lot for a ticket to a sporting event. 

No, but it can definitely make the difference. FCD has been running ridiculously cheap ticket promotions and attendance is up like 20% this season. The atmosphere is all the better for it too. Get people in the door, show them a good time, get them hooked, and then they'll shell out more next time. Ideally anyways...

That being said, you can get $20 tickets on the north side of the stadium.

 

[greenminer]

3 hours ago, Coffee and TV said:

Get people in the door, show them a good time, get them hooked

I hear this again and again from people in the food/hospitality business.

Do everything you can to get people in the door, including taking a lo$$ if you have to.

[southsideguy]

Is it a loss if the seats sit empty or you fill them with $10 tickets?   Most will buy a drink or something while there.

[greenminer]

I like the idea of a discounted ticket night once every year.  Something that reaches out to potential new fans each new season.  Maybe charge $9.40 for annual SMU game.  Adds a bit of "Denton vs. Dallas' vibe to the top of the "Mean Green vs. Mustang" teams already on the field.

[eulessismore]

I just traveled through El Paso twice in the last week (flying and driving to and from Ruidoso, N.M.), and it's really amazing how signs supporting UTEP are everywhere you go in the City, from the airport to the most hole in the wall taqueria. Whatever they're doing to engage the locals is working. I hope our coaches and players are getting well prepared for what they will face. I recommend aerobic conditioning and scoring early and often.

I do think those traveling to the game can have a great time. I thought the weather there was tolerable today; that dry heat you know.

[NT80]

9 hours ago, eulessismore said:

I just traveled through El Paso twice in the last week (flying and driving to and from Ruidoso, N.M.), and it's really amazing how signs supporting UTEP are everywhere you go in the City, from the airport to the most hole in the wall taqueria. Whatever they're doing to engage the locals is working.

Meanwhile, in the City of Denton....just crickets.

Edited August 6, 2022 by NT80

[Mike Jackson]

On 8/2/2022 at 9:20 PM, NT80 said:

UNT is the only sports team in Denton, but 3/4 of Denton wouldn't know or care UNT had a football game.

That is only a slight exaggeration.  As I stated many times before I grew up in Denton.  And from "football aware" ages 6-16 I didn't know North Texas played FCS football or that in the past they played FBS Football.  Worse yet I Mean Joe's success in the NFL seemed to me all the more impressive because in my impression of UNT Football at that time Joe & company played against local community colleges.   But you know what started the change in my perception of Mean Green Football; free ticket I received as a  promotion as a student in DISD.  Before that I had only been to Fouts Field as home games for Denton High.   We definitely need more buy in from Denton residents as only sport team that collectively represents Denton that Dallas doesn't exercise equal claim over.   More broadly we might represent DFW+ but Dallas & Fort Worth have their own FBS programs.   We should own Collin, Denton, Wise, Cooke, and Grayson counties.  That is to say that any FBS fans in those areas not already fans of P5 programs or a family connection to TCU or SMU should be a Mean Green Fan.  If we can get to that level bandwagon fans in Tarrant/Dallas county are sure to follow if we start winning consistently.   Having a 40k or more stadium that is 95% full most Saturdays would easy at that point.

[meangreenfaninno]

On 8/4/2022 at 12:02 PM, zenhuddy said:

I think if you look over a 20 year timeline there has been some real positive moves thanks to some deep pocketed Alumni/Boosters particularly in the last 5. We have more support from the President down to make us more visible and the move to the AAC and or this NIL work will continue to boost our rep. But all this being said its all about wins and losses at the end of the season - We cannot move the attendance needle if we can't produce 8+ wins per season period (maybe 9). We appear to finally getting a higher grade or 3star players and some decent portal activity that could translate to this 8-9 game winning team - remember last year we lost what should have been our star RB before the season started and 2 top WR's in the 1st two weeks so 8 or 9 wins was toast. Maybe with the continued depth improvement we can weather the storm better as injuries are part of FB life! Bottom Line from my story is we are today a "fair weather" crowd and the only way to move away from that is 2-3 solid years of 8-9 wins campaigns with 2 of those 3 years producing a bowl winner to excite the Denton and surrounding metro area. Kicking SMU's azz always is a bonus! We keep crawling in the back door to bowls and winning the min 6 and we are still whining about this for the coming years. JMO    I am hoping this is a big transition starting year, but I am the terminal optimist! #GMG #WinTheDay #Family 

Good post and I don't want my reply to discourage you in any way, but I am sorry losing a bowl game to a much lessor funded program (Miami of Ohio?) was just unacceptable.  To me that sucked any semblance of optimism I had for the program under Littrell.  People want to invest in a program that is going places.  Their time and money is too valuable to squander and there are too many other priorities like family and kids games etc to put time and money into this thing.

Believe me I am hopeful that Wren will fix this thing but him keeping Littrell last season really was a bad sign.  It looked to me like he took the easy way out while pocketing a big salary increase to $750K.

I really don't think it takes an 8-9 win season every year but going 1-6 in a crappy conference is a long way from that.

We all wanted for Littrell to be the right guy but it is now apparent he is not.  Keeping him this season just makes us feel like the AD is going through the motions.  Sorry for the negativity but that is how I feel and suspect many other donors do as well. 

[NT80]

58 minutes ago, meangreenfaninno said:

Good post and I don't want my reply to discourage you in any way, but I am sorry losing a bowl game to a much lessor funded program (Miami of Ohio?) was just unacceptable.  To me that sucked any semblance of optimism I had for the program under Littrell.  People want to invest in a program that is going places.  Their time and money is too valuable to squander and there are too many other priorities like family and kids games etc to put time and money into this thing.

Believe me I am hopeful that Wren will fix this thing but him keeping Littrell last season really was a bad sign.  It looked to me like he took the easy way out while pocketing a big salary increase to $750K.

I really don't think it takes an 8-9 win season every year but going 1-6 in a crappy conference is a long way from that.

We all wanted for Littrell to be the right guy but it is now apparent he is not.  Keeping him this season just makes us feel like the AD is going through the motions.  Sorry for the negativity but that is how I feel and suspect many other donors do as well. 

Yes.   After the Bowl game debacle in Frisco, it was the perfect time to make a coaching change and re-excite the fan base going forward toward our AAC entry.  

Instead, now at a time of year that is usually exciting awaiting the first NT game, I am dreading us playing UTEP.   UTEP of all programs!?!   When we are down 14 in the second quarter as I expect, I will start looking ahead towards basketball season.  A total waste of a football season for this program!

[Mike Jackson]

3 hours ago, NT80 said:

Yes.   After the Bowl game debacle in Frisco, it was the perfect time to make a coaching change and re-excite the fan base going forward toward our AAC entry.  

Instead, now at a time of year that is usually exciting awaiting the first NT game, I am dreading us playing UTEP.   UTEP of all programs!?!   When we are down 14 in the second quarter as I expect, I will start looking ahead towards basketball season.  A total waste of a football season for this program!

Yep a throw away year.  It isn't like he had a great recruiting class with even verbal commits at that point nor did have loaded roster coming back.  Offense has decent talent but not a QB or OC to get the best out of them.  Phil Bennett will have to make lemonade out of lemons on defense.  Even if Aune is somewhat better he is gone when we enter the AAC.  So we enter AAC running a completely new scheme with a QB with little live game experience and no experience running the new coaches version of the Air Raid IF the new coach run an Air Raid variant.  

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

5 hours ago, meangreenfaninno said:

Good post and I don't want my reply to discourage you in any way, but I am sorry losing a bowl game to a much lessor funded program (Miami of Ohio?) was just unacceptable.  To me that sucked any semblance of optimism I had for the program under Littrell.  People want to invest in a program that is going places.  Their time and money is too valuable to squander and there are too many other priorities like family and kids games etc to put time and money into this thing.

Believe me I am hopeful that Wren will fix this thing but him keeping Littrell last season really was a bad sign.  It looked to me like he took the easy way out while pocketing a big salary increase to $750K.

I really don't think it takes an 8-9 win season every year but going 1-6 in a crappy conference is a long way from that.

We all wanted for Littrell to be the right guy but it is now apparent he is not.  Keeping him this season just makes us feel like the AD is going through the motions.  Sorry for the negativity but that is how I feel and suspect many other donors do as well. 

 

4 hours ago, NT80 said:

Yes.   After the Bowl game debacle in Frisco, it was the perfect time to make a coaching change and re-excite the fan base going forward toward our AAC entry.  

Instead, now at a time of year that is usually exciting awaiting the first NT game, I am dreading us playing UTEP.   UTEP of all programs!?!   When we are down 14 in the second quarter as I expect, I will start looking ahead towards basketball season.  A total waste of a football season for this program!

A-freaking-men to all of this. Hit the nail on the head:

[Matt from A700]

The mayor of El Paso makes an annual salary of 70k. Wonder how much each of those tickets were "sold" for.

[GrandGreen]

On 8/5/2022 at 7:59 PM, greenminer said:

I like the idea of a discounted ticket night once every year.  Something that reaches out to potential new fans each new season.  Maybe charge $9.40 for annual SMU game.  Adds a bit of "Denton vs. Dallas' vibe to the top of the "Mean Green vs. Mustang" teams already on the field.

Why would you want to discount what is the most salable game on NT's schedule? 

[cousin oliver]

1 minute ago, GrandGreen said:

Why would you want to discount what is the most salable game on NT's schedule? 

I think he saying getting a sale out would be more important.  That's just me perception of his post.