DRC: Littrell details where QB race stands early in camp

Cr1028 · August 6, 2022

38 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Again, casual fan doesn't care. They see the face of teams that couldn't win more than they lost.

Aune, whether he likes it or not, regardless of the carousel at his position, is the face of the last 2 years.

You seem like a good dude, but the last year I feel like you're in every thread, nitpicking every discussion and trying to water down all details. Not sure what's going on. Maybe GM needs another break from the board.

Not watering down anything but you know as well as I do that McNulty was not nearly as good as Aune despite Aune’s faults. Also, the casual fan you are referring to wouldn’t follow closely enough to know who starts week to week or who the depth chart consists of. So many like to dismiss Aune just because he has been here.

Why can’t we just let the situation play out? Aune hasn’t started game 1 of any season he has been here, and if history is any indication, you’ll see Gunnell game 1 and get to be excited until you aren’t.

There was a time when people thought Aune was pretty good.
https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-all-conference-usa-team-qb-austin-aune-and-rb-frank-gore-jr-star-on-offense

He also had a 5-3 record as a starter during the regular season last year so he isn’t near as bad as McNulty in that regard either.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Cr1028

GMG_Dallas · August 6, 2022

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

Definitely not being fair. Littrell has done his best to put any starter out there but Aune yet it always falls back to him after the others struggle. McNulty was bona fide in your face nepotism cut and dry. The kid is a trivia answer as the first person to score at Apogee for no other reason than his dad and the head coach are like brothers.

As to the second bolded part, can you let me know what it looked like early next year? I’ve got retirement aspirations and Vegas can help.

Thought I'd fixed the "next" to "last." Should be corrected... it was a typo.

I appreciate the reasoning behind it being an unfair comparison. I'm on the fence. I don't like the explanation that "Littrell has done his best to put any starter out there but Aune yet it always falls back to him after the others struggle." These are short seasons. If an unproven QB struggles for more than a few games, you pull 'em, unless they're young and you're trying to develop them. Ruder's the only other QB that played last season so it certainly looks like there's other guys they can try out there.

It just doesn't look Like Aune's made progress in the past 2 years. He's got a 52% career completion percentage. I don't care if he "seems" like the best option to start the season, you've got to try something new. Some guys are gamers even if they're not the best in practice. Give somebody new a chance. You know what you've got in Aune. Otherwise it's just like McNulty without the family connection.

GMG_Dallas · August 6, 2022

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

He also had a 5-3 record as a starter during the regular season last year so he isn’t near as bad as McNulty in that regard either.

He only scored TDs in 2 of those 5 wins. Let's not act like he was the driving force.

Still, yes, he's better than McNulty. The bar is low.

Cr1028 · August 6, 2022

19 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

He only scored TDs in 2 of those 5 wins. Let's not act like he was the driving force.

Still, yes, he's better than McNulty. The bar is low.

Yea but he did add 3 passing TD’s during that span. He wasn’t the reason we won but he didn’t cause us to lose either which is something that McNulty was pretty good at.

GMG_Dallas · August 6, 2022

7 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

Yea but he did add 3 passing TD’s during that span. He wasn’t the reason we won but he didn’t cause us to lose either which is something that McNulty was pretty good at.

Fair.

Edited August 6, 2022 by GMG_Dallas

97and03 · August 6, 2022

13 hours ago, greenminer said:

The casual fan is not gonna care about nepotism. The casual fan sees a guy who was average at best, being put out there repeatedly hoping for better results. It was deflating when we saw it with McNulty. It's deflating when I see it with Aune.

And McNutley was still better than Greer!

MeanGreenTexan · August 7, 2022

On 8/5/2022 at 6:59 PM, emmitt01 said:

Sure, as long as you don’t fall into the tired mindset of North Texas being so inferior that we accept career backup level quarterbacks being our starter for consecutive years.

I guess I don’t follow. Aune clearly played better than Ruder, the big P5 transfer who was supposed to save the offense last year.

I’m not saying Aune was great. Yet here we are again with a bunch of folks here pinning their hopes on a transfer to be a savior of the offense.

I am saying we should be ready for Aune to be the best option again, because transfer portal history hasn’t been kind to us. Again, if Gunnell comes in & kills it, I’ll be pleasantly surprised! Either way, we must have better QB play than last year.

BillySee58 · August 7, 2022

19 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I guess I don’t follow. Aune clearly played better than Ruder, the big P5 transfer who was supposed to save the offense last year.

I’m not saying Aune was great. Yet here we are again with a bunch of folks here pinning their hopes on a transfer to be a savior of the offense.

I am saying we should be ready for Aune to be the best option again, because transfer portal history hasn’t been kind to us. Again, if Gunnell comes in & kills it, I’ll be pleasantly surprised! Either way, we must have better QB play than last year.

On one hand, it seems foolish to pin hopes on a transfer QB after seeing transfers QBs not work out. On the other, it’s also short sighted to lump Gunnell into the pool of past transfers without distinguishing how much more of a body of work he has as a college QB compared to the other P5 transfers we have brought in.

Gunnell is just shy of 1,900 yards with 15 TDs against 3 INTs while doing it at a 66.5% completion mark. Ruder was coming in with 10 career passes thrown. One D1 pass for Alec Morris, and zero for guys like Gilmore and Berglund. I’m all for the approach of not anointing him too early, I just think too often Gunnell is brought up as just another P5 QB transfer like he’s the same kind of pickup as the others. There’s more nuance to this than just “the other P5 transfer QBs haven’t worked so let’s not get our hopes up too high on this one either.”

Edited August 7, 2022 by BillySee58

NT80 · August 7, 2022

52 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

On one hand, it seems foolish to pin hopes on a transfer QB after seeing transfers QBs not work out. On the other, it’s also short sighted to lump Gunnell into the pool of past transfers without distinguishing how much more of a body of work he has as a college QB compared to the other P5 transfers we have brought in.

Gunnell is just shy of 1,900 yards with 15 TDs against 3 INTs while doing it at a 66.5% completion mark. Ruder was coming in with 10 career passes thrown. One D1 pass for Alec Morris, and zero for guys like Gilmore and Berglund. I’m all for the approach of not anointing him too early, I just think too often Gunnell is brought up as just another P5 QB transfer like he’s the same kind of pickup as the others. There’s more nuance to this than just “the other P5 transfer QBs haven’t worked so let’s not get our hopes up too high on this one either.”

Well said. Yes, Gunnell is not just another transfer with limited to no experience. He is very new to this team and playbook.

Aune has 3 years in this offense and for that reason alone I expect SL to give him the start at UTEP, and probably beyond if we win. However, Gunnell would seem to be next man up if Aune and/or the team struggles. I don't know at what point that would be for a change to be made, probably not in a close game loss. But if turnovers suddenly abound and drives constantly stall out (like they did in the Bowl game and will again), then maybe Gunnell is the change of pace QB to come in?

Matt from A700 · August 7, 2022

On 8/1/2022 at 7:37 PM, Hunter Green said:

May the best man win.

Well, let the best 30-year-old man or kid win.

MeanGreenTexan · August 7, 2022

7 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

On one hand, it seems foolish to pin hopes on a transfer QB after seeing transfers QBs not work out. On the other, it’s also short sighted to lump Gunnell into the pool of past transfers without distinguishing how much more of a body of work he has as a college QB compared to the other P5 transfers we have brought in.

Gunnell is just shy of 1,900 yards with 15 TDs against 3 INTs while doing it at a 66.5% completion mark. Ruder was coming in with 10 career passes thrown. One D1 pass for Alec Morris, and zero for guys like Gilmore and Berglund. I’m all for the approach of not anointing him too early, I just think too often Gunnell is brought up as just another P5 QB transfer like he’s the same kind of pickup as the others. There’s more nuance to this than just “the other P5 transfer QBs haven’t worked so let’s not get our hopes up too high on this one either.”

I guess I’m looking a little more critically at his time in Memphis than what he did at Arizona. Like I said, I think a team that finished 3-5 in the AAC could use a QB upgrade, but they stuck with Henigan. Henigan showed a lot of promise, especially later in the year, so I can see why they might roll the dice on him over a dude who (according to the hopes of Mean Green fans) is a game-changing QB. Maybe his ceiling is higher than Gunnell’s?

I suppose we’ll see.

GMG_Dallas · August 7, 2022

18 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I guess I’m looking a little more critically at his time in Memphis than what he did at Arizona. Like I said, I think a team that finished 3-5 in the AAC could use a QB upgrade, but they stuck with Henigan. Henigan showed a lot of promise, especially later in the year, so I can see why they might roll the dice on him over a dude who (according to the hopes of Mean Green fans) is a game-changing QB. Maybe his ceiling is higher than Gunnell’s?

I suppose we’ll see.

In 11 games as a true freshman, Henigan completed 60% of his passes with 25 TDs and 8 INTs. In comparison, Fine had a 6 TDs to 5 INTs in 10 games his true freshman year. Henigan was a stud as a true freshman.

Aune on the other hand... 51% completion, 9 TDs to 9 INTs as a 28 year old junior.

Now who needs the upgrade at QB again?

MeanGreenTexan · August 7, 2022

2 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

In 11 games as a true freshman, Henigan completed 60% of his passes with 25 TDs and 8 INTs. In comparison, Fine had a 6 TDs to 5 INTs in 10 games his true freshman year. Henigan was a stud as a true freshman.

Aune on the other hand... 51% completion, 9 TDs to 9 INTs as a 28 year old junior.

Now who needs the upgrade at QB again?

You’re saying stuff I’ve already said. I already know Aune’s #s & have repeatedly said we need better. I know Henigan is good, and we’re going to see that firsthand in about a month.

But to just assume Gunnell is everything we want, & the difference between 5-7 VS 8-4…. I’m sorry, just based on our history, I’m not going to hold my breath. Show me.

GMG_Dallas · August 7, 2022

49 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

But to just assume Gunnell is everything we want, & the difference between 5-7 VS 8-4…. I’m sorry, just based on our history, I’m not going to hold my breath. Show me.

I guess for me it's not about that. Losing with Aune would be like striking out looking. I'd rather strike out swinging. I don't care if we go 6-7 with Head or Gunnell, at least we tried different options.

MeanGreenTexan · August 7, 2022

14 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I guess for me it's not about that. Losing with Aune would be like striking out looking. I'd rather strike out swinging. I don't care if we go 6-7 with Head or Gunnell, at least we tried different options.

Fair enough. And I could even get on board with that line of thinking.
I don’t know that Littrell can though. To save his job, he has to play the best option, and if he thinks that’s a bus-driving Aune, that’s who he’ll roll with.

Tom McKrackin · August 7, 2022

42 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I guess for me it's not about that. Losing with Aune would be like striking out looking. I'd rather strike out swinging. I don't care if we go 6-7 with Head or Gunnell, at least we tried different options.

I had not thought of it like that and quite honestly you hit the mail on the head with your theory.

BillySee58 · August 7, 2022

4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I guess I’m looking a little more critically at his time in Memphis than what he did at Arizona. Like I said, I think a team that finished 3-5 in the AAC could use a QB upgrade, but they stuck with Henigan. Henigan showed a lot of promise, especially later in the year, so I can see why they might roll the dice on him over a dude who (according to the hopes of Mean Green fans) is a game-changing QB. Maybe his ceiling is higher than Gunnell’s?

I suppose we’ll see.

When a true freshman comes in and throws for 3,300 yards with 25 TDs against 8 picks, they’re the guy. That’s like Mason Fine senior year numbers out of a true freshman.

I just think you can scrutinize that AND make mention of his actual body of work that he has put together on a D1 field. Especially when lumping him in with the other D1/P5 transfer QBs we have landed previously. Because if we’re gonna group him with those guys, we actually should compare them beyond just “former P5 QB.”

And again, this isn’t just me criticizing you specifically. I just think as a whole most on the board are describing Gunnell as another P5 transfer like the others previously mentioned. I know not every poster can be amalgamated into one, but it does seem to reek of hypocrisy how we say high school accolades don’t matter on one hand, then on the other group Gunnell in with the other QBs solely based their similarities in high school accolades while ignoring how different their college bodies or work are. Just think it needs to be mentioned more.

GMG_Dallas · August 7, 2022

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

To save his job, he has to play the best option, and if he thinks that’s a bus-driving Aune, that’s who he’ll roll with.

I'd imagine to save his job he'd have to do more than 6-6 but you're right. He needs the success now. Can't take the time to develop a QB. Sigh...

MeanGreenTexan · August 7, 2022

6 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

…

And again, this isn’t just me criticizing you specifically. I just think as a whole most on the board are describing Gunnell as another P5 transfer like the others previously mentioned. I know not every poster can be amalgamated into one, but it does seem to reek of hypocrisy how we say high school accolades don’t matter on one hand, then on the other group Gunnell in with the other QBs solely based their similarities in high school accolades while ignoring how different their college bodies or work are. Just think it needs to be mentioned more.

Lol, I thought I was one of the only ones doing this. And I’m probably trumping that up too much. Probably my defense mechanism to keep from having my hopes crushed like they were by the likes of Darius Terrell, Bryce English, Nick Harvey, etc…

It seems like most want to crown Gunnell now, and will cite his Arizona highlights, but really it’s because they desperately want anyone to be better than Aune. It doesn’t really matter who.

And yeah, I’m definitely not one of the guys saying bail on HS QBs!

BillySee58 · August 7, 2022

19 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Lol, I thought I was one of the only ones doing this. And I’m probably trumping that up too much. Probably my defense mechanism to keep from having my hopes crushed like they were by the likes of Darius Terrell, Bryce English, Nick Harvey, etc…

It seems like most want to crown Gunnell now, and will cite his Arizona highlights, but really it’s because they desperately want anyone to be better than Aune. It doesn’t really matter who.

And yeah, I’m definitely not one of the guys saying bail on HS QBs!

Even from the people I see hyping up Gunnell, I often don’t see much of a deep dive on his body of work. To your point, a lot of hoping he can be a guy who solves the issue and relegates Aune to the bench.

But again, even the guys you are mentioning there had not actually proven anything on the field beyond getting signed out of HS by a P5, except Harvey.

I think we’ll be fine with Aune or Gunnell. I just think failing to mention Gunnell’s actual experience doesn’t paint a fully accurate picture.

GMG_Dallas · August 7, 2022

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

Even from the people I see hyping up Gunnell, I often don’t see much of a deep dive on his body of work.

I'm not going to pretend I watch Arizona football often. When we signed him, I did watch the highlights from the 2020 USC game. Odd season due to covid. USC finished 5-1. They had that team beat late but USC put together a game winning drive with a minute and 30 seconds left on the clock.

I'll say this about Gunnell that impressed me, the dude is sneaky (ha!) fast and is not afraid to move up in the pocket as he looks off the LBs, and then make a run for 1st down. Also, the QB sneak on 4th and 1 is back. His completion percentage is not based on the receivers making leaping catches or having to stop and wait on the ball. He gets it to them on time and in a position to get YAC. Couldn't tell you specific throws he made but I remember the full game highlights had me impressed. He looks and plays like a D1 QB.

Time will tell.

Cr1028 · August 7, 2022

15 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I'm not going to pretend I watch Arizona football often. When we signed him, I did watch the highlights from the 2020 USC game. Odd season due to covid. USC finished 5-1. They had that team beat late but USC put together a game winning drive with a minute and 30 seconds left on the clock.

I'll say this about Gunnell that impressed me, the dude is sneaky (ha!) fast and is not afraid to move up in the pocket as he looks off the LBs, and then make a run for 1st down. Also, the QB sneak on 4th and 1 is back. His completion percentage is not based on the receivers making leaping catches or having to stop and wait on the ball. He gets it to them on time and in a position to get YAC. Couldn't tell you specific throws he made but I remember the full game highlights had me impressed. He looks and plays like a D1 QB.

Time will tell.

I think you and I are on the same page. We are against the premise of just giving a guy the job because of what he did somewhere other than UNT. We don’t care about that, we want you to show us. Come in and actually win the job at UNT. I felt the exact same way about Ruder last season. I love Ruder’s arm strength and really wanted him to earn the job on the field but it didn’t work out. I had a major problems with folks like @GOMeanGOwho just wanted to anoint him because he backed up the holy Sam Howell and came from the “somebody hold me up” ACC. Gunnell has a way better resume than any we have had before as @BillySee58 pointed out but again, it comes down to show me at UNT.

NT80 · August 7, 2022

7 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Gunnell has a way better resume than any we have had before as @BillySee58 pointed out but again, it comes down to show me at UNT.

I think it actually comes down to show SL. Aune is the incumbent QB. Seth tends to ride his QBs too hard and too long. It used to drive me nuts leaving Mason in with a big lead or when obviously tired after big hits. Ruder was different and got a quick entry, but also a quick exit after a bad turnover. It will be very interesting to see when Gunnell makes his NT debut.

Cr1028 · August 8, 2022

45 minutes ago, NT80 said:

I think it actually comes down to show SL. Aune is the incumbent QB. Seth tends to ride his QBs too hard and too long. It used to drive me nuts leaving Mason in with a big lead or when obviously tired after big hits. Ruder was different and got a quick entry, but also a quick exit after a bad turnover. It will be very interesting to see when Gunnell makes his NT debut.

Yea that quick entry and exit has been his thing except when Mason became his security blanket. He yanked Morris and Ruder pretty early. Bean got a quick exit too but he’d been with the program awhile first.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Cr1028

GMG_Dallas · August 8, 2022

56 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

I think you and I are on the same page. We are against the premise of just giving a guy the job because of what he did somewhere other than UNT. We don’t care about that, we want you to show us. Come in and actually win the job at UNT. I felt the exact same way about Ruder last season. I love Ruder’s arm strength and really wanted him to earn the job on the field but it didn’t work out. I had a major problems with folks like @GOMeanGOwho just wanted to anoint him because he backed up the holy Sam Howell and came from the “somebody hold me up” ACC. Gunnell has a way better resume than any we have had before as @BillySee58 pointed out but again, it comes down to show me at UNT.

Right and it goes beyond the new guys we have. It applies to our veterans too. No QB should be locked into their spot unless you had an obviously strong season. I'm not annoyed by Aune winning the job. I'm annoyed by the perception that he was given the job this year because he had the job last year. He doesn't deserve the job based on last season so why does he start as QB1? Make him earn it too. He doesn't have the skins on the wall to HAVE to be unseated by a newcomer. It should be his job to win but they're treating it like it's his to lose.