Littrell has the longest tenure of any Texas college coach?

[Dannymacfan]

Not sure how I feel about this. 

 

[greenminer]

Texas has:

17 Div 1 programs
6 Div 2 programs|
10 Div 3 programs
5 NAIA programs
7 NJCAA programs

Source

...we have a lot of football.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

...And the hottest seat

[DentonLurker]

26 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

...And the hottest seat

I don't know, man. 5-7, even Year 1, in Austin is pretty hot. Fair or not.

[greenminer]

23 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

I don't know, man. 5-7, even Year 1, in Austin is pretty hot. Fair or not.

It equates to 1) one fanbase that is probably a little angry, and 2) one AD that is not gonna do anything.

Seat is cool in Austin.

[NT80]

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

It equates to 1) one fanbase that is probably a little angry, and 2) one AD that is not gonna do anything.

1-5 start this year in Austin = fired

1-5 start this year in Denton = see if we can beat UTSA before we decide 

[MGNation92]

20 minutes ago, NT80 said:

1-5 start this year in Austin = fired

1-5 start this year in Denton = see if we can beat UTSA before we decide 

It'll be like Benford all over again. We knew he needed to be gone, Wren knew he needed to be gone, but he waited out his contract.

I get it to a certain extent, but sub .500 ball over 6 seasons should be plenty to make a decision

[MrAlien]

I think timing is a factor (changing conferences), as well as who else is available, and the type of contract he signed (buying him out would have been expensive).  I think his future will be decided in the first 6 games this season, a loosing record at this point would probably mean he is not coming back next season.   

[untjim1995]

1 hour ago, MGNation92 said:

It'll be like Benford all over again. We knew he needed to be gone, Wren knew he needed to be gone, but he waited out his contract.

I get it to a certain extent, but sub .500 ball over 6 seasons should be plenty to make a decision

When the funds aren't there, you gotta wait it out.

[untphd]

Head football coach since                  Last season record

Houston Baptist 2012                           0-11

Abilene C            2021                          5-6

Baylor                 2020                          12-2

Lamar                 2019                           2-9

Prairie View        2022                           7-5

Rice                     2017                           4-8

Sam Houston      2014                          11-1

SMU                    2021                           8-4

SFA                      2018                           8-4

Tarleton               2016                           6-5

TCU                     2021                            5-7

Texas Southern   2018                           3-8

Texas State         2018                            4-8

Houston               2019                           12-2

UNT                     2015                            6-7

Incarnate Word  2021                            10-3

San Antonio       2019                             12-2

This is based on each website. Sorry for any mistakes. This show when the head coach was hired and what their record was last season. We should be a little better by now.

 

 

[greenminer]

2 hours ago, NT80 said:

1-5 start this year in Austin = fired

1-5 start this year in Denton = see if we can beat UTSA before we decide 

I don't think you're wrong about Wren and Denton, but this is not a good perspective to put around us...or pretty much anyone else in college athletics.

UT can literally pull the trigger on anything they ever want, right away.  Between UT and North Texas, the budgets and number of engaged donors are in completely different stratospheres.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

Really rooting for the team to finally do something this year but I honestly can't wait until Littrell is gone. We need a higher ceiling than hoping a 7th year head coach just makes a bowl game with all of the resources at his disposal. 

[NT80]

10 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I don't think you're wrong about Wren and Denton, but this is not a good perspective to put around us...or pretty much anyone else in college athletics.

UT can literally pull the trigger on anything they ever want, right away.  Between UT and North Texas, the budgets and number of engaged donors are in completely different stratospheres.

You are correct, UT was a poor example.  They could replace every coach every year if they wanted to.

There is a savings to NT to not buy out a coach.  But there is also a great cost to NT to NOT do something.  

To retain a non-winning coach in the most media-visible and highest revenue-producing sport in our program costs sales, donations, merchandise, and image.  
I would say it even affects school applications, among other things.   Football success drives admission applications. 

[Mike Jackson]

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

You are correct, UT was a poor example.  They could replace every coach every year if they wanted to.

There is a savings to NT to not buy out a coach.  But there is also a great cost to NT to NOT do something.  

To retain a non-winning coach in the most media-visible and highest revenue-producing sport in our program costs sales, donations, merchandise, and image.  
I would say it even affects school applications, among other things.   Football success drives admission applications. 

I wouldn’t go that far here.  I think you really have to be horrible to affect applications negatively.   For the most part UNT isn’t competing for applicants for the schools nearest to us.  TCU & SMU small private, limited degree offerings, and expensive.  If game day experience is a factor we are don’t present the same spectacles that Baylor, and Tech do.  
 

What it absolutely does do is reinforce the reputation as a school not serious about athletics.  That make jobs in the athletic department less attractive to the best talent. Makes you have to overpay for coaches.  And makes it harder to recruit players 2-3 years from now.  Maybe if the recruit loves the school more than the coach, that doesn’t make a difference.  I do think it is embarrassing to talk football at the sports bar and try to defend the mediocrity with the loyalty to the coach.  It makes it look like we aren’t serious about Football and it hard to argue otherwise with people who aren’t invested in the program already.

[Tom McKrackin]

7 hours ago, NT80 said:

1-5 start this year in Austin = fired

1-5 start this year in Denton = see if we can beat UTSA before we decide 

I think you are exactly correct and as @untjim1995 has stated when you scratch your head on decision making historically at good ole NT check the bank balance and you’ll find your answer.  The only reason they didn’t fire mumbles last season was money.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Tom McKrackin

[Mike Jackson]

8 hours ago, Tom McKrackin said:

I think you are exactly correct and as @untjim1995 has stated when you scratch your head on decision making historically at good ole NT check the bank balance and you’ll find your answer.  The only reason they didn’t fire mumbles last season was money.

But really that is a horrible answer that reeks of bad budgeting especially when it comes to Littrell.  Leaders should be looking down the road and make cost analysis base on the team being around 0.500.  If they see the possibility of a coach failing with multiple years remaining under contract they can’t get from under you let that coach walk.  If they are going to be cheap all I want is for them is to pinch pennies smartly.  They had the perfect opportunity to do that when Seth flirted with KSU.  It isn’t like we haven’t seen coaches do more with less.  Even in our own conference we have seen coaches at UAB, and UTSA do better with less. At the that time Seth looked like a good coach but not irreplaceable.  I questioned the extension at the time and it just looks worse now because back then like a fool thought they budgeted for the possibility of letting him go at this point in the contract.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Mike Jackson

[untjim1995]

6 hours ago, NT80 said:

You are correct, UT was a poor example.  They could replace every coach every year if they wanted to.

There is a savings to NT to not buy out a coach.  But there is also a great cost to NT to NOT do something.  

To retain a non-winning coach in the most media-visible and highest revenue-producing sport in our program costs sales, donations, merchandise, and image.  
I would say it even affects school applications, among other things.   Football success drives admission applications. 

You’ve been around here long enough to know that we don’t run anything in athletics on opportunity costs…it’s always on known costs. That’s the MO for everything around here and has been for the last 60 years, if not longer. Hell, we would’ve never gone down to I-AA with any idea of what opportunity costs would do to our university of that was ever considered.

[NT93]

We always wanted “our Gary Patterson.”  I guess we have him…minus the wins and university-changing upward trajectory.

[untjim1995]

46 minutes ago, NT93 said:

We always wanted “our Gary Patterson.”  I guess we have him…minus the wins and university-changing upward trajectory.

That Gary Patterson is available for a university that cares about winning…

[untbowler]

17 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

When the funds aren't there, you gotta wait it out.

then why are we paying an AD way over market value for our conference? Should he not be raising funds comparative to his salary? We already overpaid for a an average coach, but that is the name of the game at UNT, keep reaching and then panic extension at an above market price. 

Only coaches earning their salary right now IMO is McCasland and Delong

Edited July 27, 2022 by untbowler

[Mike Jackson]

2 hours ago, untbowler said:

then why are we paying an AD way over market value for our conference? Should he not be raising funds comparative to his salary? We already overpaid for a an average coach, but that is the name of the game at UNT, keep reaching and then panic extension at an above market price. 

Only coaches earning their salary right now IMO is McCasland and Delong

Yep this is what I have NEVER understood about their approach to Football Coach salaries.  Only the very best proven head coaches should be paid above market for their first contract.  Raises over 15% should require a conference championship or a bowl game win minimum.  My approach when offering contracts to anyone but the best experienced is the median conference salary adding whatever percentage the cost of living of DFW is above cost of living at the cheapest conference rival’s city.  They went super cheap for Dodge and understandably overpaid Coach Mac a proven head coach coming into fix the mess the penny pinching caused.  Seth’s extension & raise made no sense.  Give him 150k bump max and lower the buyout for another team to hire him away.  Don’t like it walk, good luck because the program is bigger than you and you haven’t accomplished anything that the other coaches minus Dodge haven’t already here.

[UNTcrazy727]

14 hours ago, Tom McKrackin said:

I think you are exactly correct and as @untjim1995 has stated when you scratch your head on decision making historically at good ole NT check the bank balance and you’ll find your answer.  The only reason they didn’t fire mumbles last season was money.

Completely wrong and using the old line of thinking that some of our older fans can't seem to shake. 

Wren might wait until the end of the regular season, but once we hit 6 losses Littrell is gone. 

[untjim1995]

2 hours ago, untbowler said:

then why are we paying an AD way over market value for our conference? Should he not be raising funds comparative to his salary? We already overpaid for a an average coach, but that is the name of the game at UNT, keep reaching and then panic extension at an above market price. 

Only coaches earning their salary right now IMO is McCasland and Delong

You know how we run things around here...Wren makes a lot because the powers above like him and he keeps us in budget. Once he doesn't, that will change, just as it did for RV.

Wren got fleeced hard, as did Smatresk, by Jimmy Sexton, the agent for SL. Its what he does for his clients. He's the Scott Boras of agents for college coaches.

[untjim1995]

1 minute ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Completely wrong and using the old line of thinking that some of our older fans can't seem to shake. 

Wren might wait until the end of the regular season, but once we hit 6 losses Littrell is gone. 

Ok--so why did we keep a guy who was 14-21 since he got his last extension? If we fired him after last season's losing season, it costs the university $2.6 million to get rid of SL. Waiting this year, if a firing is necessary, the buyout is $1.3 million. So what other reasons can you provide for him keeping his job, ones that aren't financial...

 

[meanrob]

If we’re going to have this debate, at least be honest about it. You can’t say a school is worried about costs yet has the highest paid coach in the conference. If UNT cared about costs so much we’d just churn and burn through 400k coaches every year. You can complain about how the money is spent but the money is spent. 
 

No inside info but I don’t think money had anything to do with Wren keeping SL. I bet he has an optimistic view of the situation and we as fans have a pessimistic view. You can make a case that last year was influenced by other factors. I wouldn’t buy it, but you could make a case. 
 

Back in the day when I knew a few people in the AD they always thought the fans complained too much, even in years we went 3-9. I’m not sure what they expected but they were always optimistic about things turning around.  Hell, our last coach was driving the program into the ground and still didn’t get fired until the lowest single point in program history. That wasn’t money either. It’s more culture than money. 
 

I keep flip flopping on what happens this year. My hope is SL coaches his ass off, we win nine games and he moves on. Win, win. He acts more like he’s a coach who happens to coach North Texas than being proud of being UNT’s coach. But the nagging voice in my head says is he really going to win nine games with this roster? And if he doesn’t, will NT cut bait after a 6-6 season?  I don’t know.