D-1 Council Recommends UNLIMITED Transfers?

[UNTLifer]

On 7/22/2022 at 11:17 AM, DentonLurker said:

What gives any of us the right to maintain control from these athletes though? I'm a hard pass on this logic. It's their life to make the decisions they think is best for them, whether I agree with them or not. I'm not out here telling the other students on campus they CAN'T transfer from UNT to Texas Tech because they're not equipped to make "the wisest decision."

This “life decision” should be for four years. These kids are being taught that commitment means nothing, if I am upset I should just move along and doesn’t teach them a thing about working through adversity. 
I see them now carrying this into the work place where they arrive thinking they are owed something and not willing to put in time and work their way up 

[El Paso Eagle]

What amazes me is that there is so much talk every year about how many kids enter the portal and never get picked up. And now they want to let you transform more times? It is almost if they're trying to completely destroy college football so they can have an excuse to restructure it to something different and more professional

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, El Paso Eagle said:

What amazes me is that there is so much talk every year about how many kids enter the portal and never get picked up. 

Out of curiosity, what are these numbers exactly?

[El Paso Eagle]

3 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Out of curiosity, what are these numbers exactly?

I would have to go back and look but I know north of 30% overall and if you look at it as it trickles down to G5 players it's even higher.  I will see if I can find the article I read

[El Paso Eagle]

6 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Out of curiosity, what are these numbers exactly?

https://footballscoop.com/news/ncaa-transfer-portal-data#:~:text=News-,NCAA%3A 40 percent of scholarship FBS players do not find,side of the transfer portal

[greenminer]

Thanks.  I'm going to try and wrap my mind around how this impacts rosters.  When I see a numbers like 50%+ of student-athletes are transferring, and 40% of those transfers don't find a home, it makes me wonder how schools are keeping a competitive roster in tact, if at all.

I also can't help but notice the NCAA report stays strictly with the use of "student-athlete", while the linked article is adamant about referring to them as scholarship players.  could be the same thing and mean nothing?

Here's the NCAA data page

[outoftown]

So. unlimited transfers also within season? That has to be the next step. And at that point what does winning a conference, or a natty even mean?

[NT93]

NIL, Open transfers…Welcome to free agency.  

[DentonLurker]

Are coaches going to agree to not taking the next job until their contract is up and ADs to not firing coaches until their contracts are up at the same time everyone expects these players to just stay put and be happy?

[97and03]

On 7/24/2022 at 6:31 AM, UNTLifer said:

This “life decision” should be for four years. These kids are being taught that commitment means nothing, if I am upset I should just move along and doesn’t teach them a thing about working through adversity. 
I see them now carrying this into the work place where they arrive thinking they are owed something and not willing to put in time and work their way up 

I think they are taught by example of their coaches and AD staff that you move to whatever you think is the best opportunity for you. 

[NT93]

3 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

Are coaches going to agree to not taking the next job until their contract is up and ADs to not firing coaches until their contracts are up at the same time everyone expects these players to just stay put and be happy?

Didn’t all of those coaches get a college degree to earn that right? There is a difference between a professional and an amateur.

[DentonLurker]

6 hours ago, NT93 said:

Didn’t all of those coaches get a college degree to earn that right?

Got it. Loyalty expected from the amateurs on one year scholarships, but once you get that degree, sign a multi-year contract and get paid a six+ figure salary, loyalty doesn’t matter. You’ve earned the right to do what’s best for yourself. Makes sense to me.

Edited July 26, 2022 by DentonLurker

[keith]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:17 PM, DentonLurker said:

What gives any of us the right to maintain control from these athletes though? I'm a hard pass on this logic. It's their life to make the decisions they think is best for them, whether I agree with them or not. I'm not out here telling the other students on campus they CAN'T transfer from UNT to Texas Tech because they're not equipped to make "the wisest decision."

Exactly, who is to say they have to go to class or maintain a certain grade point average in order to play the game?  Who's making the rules that they even have to be students or enrolled at the school?  Playing college football whenever and wherever one wants to is a fundamental human right damnit!  

Edited July 26, 2022 by keith

[untjim1995]

More and more of you are seeing the reality of why I want this to happen for the NFL-lite programs. Go your own way. But let the rest of us have actual college football again. Play amateurs on scholarship that have to stay here for their careers...give these schools a chance to be a national champion.

 

[DentonLurker]

1 hour ago, keith said:

Exactly, who is to say they have to go to class or maintain a certain grade point average in order to play the game?  Who's making the rules that they even have to be students or enrolled at the school?  Playing college football whenever and wherever one wants to is a fundamental human right damnit!  

I love that your response is to go to the extreme end that literally no one is advocating for. The initial post and proposal mentioned literally says the athlete has to be in good academic standing at their current school.

What your post suggests is a need for some kind of option for athletes who don’t want to go to college. I think the missing piece in the game of football is some kind of minor league or developmental league for athletes who don’t want to go to school. And I’d be fine with that too. It works for basketball and baseball.

[greenminer]

43 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

I think the missing piece in the game of football is some kind of minor league or developmental league for athletes who don’t want to go to school. And I’d be fine with that too. It works for basketball and baseball.

Now we are getting somewhere.

I think we could end up seeing something like this.  With the chaos of NIL/Portal and the evolution of the CFB game, any number of scenarios could play out:

- Some schools simply opt out of the money race to the top, stick the traditions and play in a league/division that honors the college game we grew up in.
- Some schools will win at all costs, skirting the line and playing along with the NCAA and seeing what they can get away with.  We are already seeing this.
- Some schools/athletes find a way to do this outside of the NCAA, in between the two extremes above.  Their own financial terms.  May or may not have academic obligations.

Just scatter shooting, and there could be other scenarios I'm not thinking of.

Edited July 26, 2022 by greenminer

[keith]

1 hour ago, DentonLurker said:

I love that your response is to go to the extreme end that literally no one is advocating for. The initial post and proposal mentioned literally says the athlete has to be in good academic standing at their current school.

What your post suggests is a need for some kind of option for athletes who don’t want to go to college. I think the missing piece in the game of football is some kind of minor league or developmental league for athletes who don’t want to go to school. And I’d be fine with that too. It works for basketball and baseball.

I was responding to: "What gives any of us the right to maintain control from these athletes though?" not the original post. One approach to test the strength of a conviction is to go to the extreme to see how it holds up.  It seems we are OK with controlling some aspects of these student-athlete's lives, but not others.  Where do we draw the line?  I don't know.  Can they transfer mid-season and play at the new school right away?  Why not?  If not, then we are saying it's OK to control their lives for 1 year and it's all good, but 2 or more is evil and bad.  

[DentonLurker]

9 minutes ago, keith said:

Why not?  If not, then we are saying it's OK to control their lives for 1 year and it's all good, but 2 or more is evil and bad.

For me, it's simple. Scholarships get renewed annually. Any restriction above and beyond a year just doesn't seem fair in my book. If coaches/schools are willing to go to 4 year scholarship guarantees, it's a different conversation.

[keith]

3 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

For me, it's simple. Scholarships get renewed annually. Any restriction above and beyond a year just doesn't seem fair in my book. If coaches/schools are willing to go to 4 year scholarship guarantees, it's a different conversation.

I have no idea what the renewal rate is, but I suspect it's fairly high under normal circumstances.  What happens to the 4-year guarantee if/when the student-athlete decides they don't want to play anymore?  For a career-ending injury, it seems like the school should honor its commitment, but what happens when they are on the team for a year and just quit?  Do they still get a free ride for the next 3 years or is it contingent on being on the team in good standing?

How does this work for 5th-year student athletes that took a red-shirt year?  Is it really a 5 year scholly?

[greenminer]

I wonder how many kids get pushed out the door after one year across all of college football.  Even if I don't see all of them, it can't be that high relative to the total number of schollies out there.  4-5 year renewals are practically automatic, even if not guaranteed.

[NT93]

16 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

Got it. Loyalty expected from the amateurs on one year scholarships, but once you get that degree, sign a multi-year contract and get paid a six+ figure salary, loyalty doesn’t matter. You’ve earned the right to do what’s best for yourself. Makes sense to me.

I should clarify that I think coaches should be loyal to the contract they sign.

[Monkeypox]

5 hours ago, keith said:

Can they transfer mid-season and play at the new school right away?  Why not? 

Idk, maybe because they are transfer students and are subject to the applications and deadlines and qualifications that the Universities stipulate. Football season doesn't cross semesters.

[outoftown]

14 hours ago, keith said:

I have no idea what the renewal rate is, but I suspect it's fairly high under normal circumstances.  What happens to the 4-year guarantee if/when the student-athlete decides they don't want to play anymore?  For a career-ending injury, it seems like the school should honor its commitment, but what happens when they are on the team for a year and just quit?  Do they still get a free ride for the next 3 years or is it contingent on being on the team in good standing?

How does this work for 5th-year student athletes that took a red-shirt year?  Is it really a 5 year scholly?

It absolutely should be a five year scholly. Personally that has been my general beef here with schools and coaches (and some degree fans). They want student athletes to commit to the school for the long term. I am all for incentivizing that. However that is not fair unless the schools also must commit for the long term and suffer punishments if they do not hold to their commitment. That hasn't been happening. Players could be cut etc. while the players could almost not move before. Only if schools actually lose the spot on the roster when the player leaves or decides he is done with CFB, will they treat their players with the necessary understanding of what it means to be in this together. Only then is it fair to ask players to commit as well. It would lead the profession back to the best developers having a shot to do better than those who may not do so much developping but have all the skills of a used car salesman.

Also: If you have a player who doesn't have the drive to go on playing, you chose players with the wrong values to start with. It should not be only about athletic capacity. Right now though, it is. Incentives to do something else are largely missing and coaches behave accordingly, because those who do not in the long run often don't keep having a job .

[El Paso Eagle]

20 hours ago, greenminer said:

I wonder how many kids get pushed out the door after one year across all of college football.  Even if I don't see all of them, it can't be that high relative to the total number of schollies out there.  4-5 year renewals are practically automatic, even if not guaranteed.

I believe in the P5 conference they are guaranteed unless you violate certain rules

[El Paso Eagle]

People can get pissed at the NCAA, but this is on the College Presidents. They need to stop acting like they give a crap about the athletes getting an education. They could reign this in immediately. Plays could now go to four schools in four years. How can they get a degree? If a player transfers as an undergrad more than once how are they able to be somewhere long enough to get a degree? As far As I know, they do not let you get a degree if you are there only a year.

Edited July 27, 2022 by El Paso Eagle