So, UNT Wants to play with the Big Boys?

TCC Mean Green · July 6, 2022

One of the first things to do, is to travel very well during football. Showing up to SMU with no band (maybe Covid related) and less than 10K people isn’t going to get us in a P5 conference.

Our Alumni app should have a sports button showing alumni events with traveling to away games. Every away game! We should have a dedicated pre-game party, hotel, etc.

Time to show up and show out! #GMG

GrandGreen · July 6, 2022

On 7/6/2022 at 11:09 AM, TCC Mean Green said:

One of the first things to do, is to travel very well during football. Showing up to SMU with no band (maybe Covid related) and less than 10K people isn’t going to get us in a P5 conference.

Our Alumni app should have a sports button showing alumni events with traveling to away games. Every away game! We should have a dedicated pre-game party, hotel, etc.

Time to show up and show out! #GM

Yet, NT travels much better than SMU, NT brings thousands to Dallas versus SMU's few hundred to Denton.

No band was obviously because of Covid.

Edited July 7, 2022 by GrandGreen

DentonLurker · July 6, 2022

2 hours ago, TCC Mean Green said:

One of the first things to do, is to travel very well during football.

Road attendance isn't going to make or break any conference movement conversations. Lack of MGSF donors, season ticket holders, and general lack of home attendance certainly will though.

NM Green · July 7, 2022

We are onto something in 2021-2022. The big fan fest in Frisco for the bowl game was a huge success. The big turnout with the basketball pre party before La Tech was a blast too. It brought together the UNT community, was memorably sponsored by western sons vodka, food for all and good energy before filling the stands with some rowdy fans.

Can we get 6 of these sponsored events for Sep- Nov? Get a few for rivalry games in The Superpit. Those highly scripted parties with a mission to bring the Mean Green fandom together worked well for special events. Can we make that happen for smu, homecoming, family day, thanksgiving weekend?

i like the app idea about Mean Green bars, hotels, pre and post gatherings for road games in Vegas, Memphis, B-Ham,, UTSA and El Paso.

organized cheers, organized parties, organized travel plan options.

GMG

Green Crazy · July 7, 2022

On 7/6/2022 at 2:07 PM, DentonLurker said:

Road attendance isn't going to make or break any conference movement conversations. Lack of MGSF donors, season ticket holders, and general lack of home attendance certainly will though.

This is by far the worst part of our school. The lack of donors/people that care about the school, let alone sports after they leave. It's embarrassing frankly.

This is the biggest reason we'll never maintain a level of success.

NT80 · July 8, 2022

$73 million in gifts to $mut still won't buy them a conference upgrade. They are what they are and money can't fix that.

Mean Green 93-98 · July 8, 2022

20 hours ago, Green Crazy said:

Question--is this an apples-to-apples comparison? Did SMU receive $73 million in gifts specifically to athletics? Or is that to the university as a whole? Brett's link is only available to USA Today subscribers. And even if SMU received $73 million last year toward athletics, I can't imagine that is anywhere near typical for them.

DentonLurker · July 8, 2022

59 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

is this an apples-to-apples comparison?

I had the same question, but from a different angle. I'm assuming our $2M number, which is still sadly low, is just to the MGSF. I'm also going to assume SMU's $73M came to athletics, assuming the original tweet is from an athletics employee. My question is how much of that is annual fund vs. major gifts to facilities and what-not. I'm pretty sure our $2M doesn't include major gifts.

Brett Vito · July 8, 2022

58 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

2 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

is this an apples-to-apples comparison?

SMU is a private school and is not in the USA Today database.

97and03 · July 9, 2022

Pavlovs Eagle · July 11, 2022

On 7/6/2022 at 11:09 AM, TCC Mean Green said:

One of the first things to do, is to travel very well during football. Showing up to SMU with no band (maybe Covid related) and less than 10K people isn’t going to get us in a P5 conference.

Our Alumni app should have a sports button showing alumni events with traveling to away games. Every away game! We should have a dedicated pre-game party, hotel, etc.

Time to show up and show out! #GMG

We've traveled to most of the Littrell era away games. To the point that we had people asking us "who's your kid?"... which goes to show that except for SMU/UTSA/Rice/LA Tech and maybe one exotic P5 home game a year, our fan base NEVER travels unless they have a child playing.

There is NEVER and organization of a UNT official hotel block or anything for our games. For some of the bigger away games the Athletic Department will come up with travel packages but they won't release it till 3-4 weeks prior to the game. Look at the folks on GMG.com going to UNLV... many of us have already booked hotels (in a city that is highly unlikely to sell out of hotel rooms) and some have already booked plane tix. The Cal game was another great example. There were a decent amount of us there, imagine if they had corraled 75 of the 100 green guys in the same hotel! I think 2-3 weeks before the game the Ath Dept tried to get people to stay 20 miles inland in Walnut Creek away from Berkley and SF where all the energy is. And the great embarasment of the FAU CUSA championship game in Boca without as much as coordination of a 10x10 Academy pop-up tent and some free water and Lite with UNT koozies in the giant FAU parking lot campus. You'd think there'd be some travel agent that would be happy to try to coordinate some of that stuff as soon as the football schedule comes out.

SMU2006 · July 11, 2022

On 7/8/2022 at 12:10 PM, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Question--is this an apples-to-apples comparison? Did SMU receive $73 million in gifts specifically to athletics? Or is that to the university as a whole? Brett's link is only available to USA Today subscribers. And even if SMU received $73 million last year toward athletics, I can't imagine that is anywhere near typical for them.

Yes these are athletics specific donations.

And that figure has been trending up over the last decade. $73m represents an uptick but not one that is wildly out of line with previous years.

MrAlien · July 11, 2022

Same problem every year, UNT does not even try to promote a fan base in DFW... Money is great, but UNT has the larger alumni population int DFW, there is no reason that UNT should not kill SMU in local TV ratings every week. There is no reason for UNT games not to be on at every major sports bar in DFW (especially the ones that are popular with college football). All it takes is hustle!

LitMedallion · July 11, 2022

On 7/7/2022 at 3:22 PM, Green Crazy said:

This is by far the worst part of our school. The lack of donors/people that care about the school, let alone sports after they leave. It's embarrassing frankly.

This is the biggest reason we'll never maintain a level of success.

UTSA's first trip to Rice was their homecoming in 2012. The class of 1962 donated 12 million dollars at halftime. Our endowment at that time was only like 80 million. I believe schools like SMU, Rice are dinosaurs, but they just don't know it. Both were in the SWC for decades and they're now in the same conference as UNT. It isn't about the big donations, of course that helps, but it's about the constant donations.

Do you believe when it comes to dollars and sense that conferences are really looking for small schools like SMU and Rice or that future potential in UNT, UAB, and UTSA? I'm not being disrespectful with this statement, but for years UNT/UAB was the doormat game for big programs while Rice and SMU were considered "premier". Tides have turned and I believe for forever.

DentonLurker · July 11, 2022

10 minutes ago, LitMedallion said:

Do you believe when it comes to dollars and sense that conferences are really looking for small schools like SMU and Rice or that future potential in UNT, UAB, and UTSA?

The answer to this is "it depends." I would imagine school size/potential doesn't matter as much as what's happening in the athletic department today to the better conferences. Are you bringing in a lot of annual donors/dollars? Are you selling lots of season tickets and selling out your games? If the answer to both of those questions is "yes," and I'm one of the better conferences, I'm interested. If you have potential to some day say "yes" to these questions, the traditional G5 conferences are where you belong today.

SMU2006 · July 11, 2022

32 minutes ago, LitMedallion said:

UTSA's first trip to Rice was their homecoming in 2012. The class of 1962 donated 12 million dollars at halftime. Our endowment at that time was only like 80 million. I believe schools like SMU, Rice are dinosaurs, but they just don't know it. Both were in the SWC for decades and they're now in the same conference as UNT. It isn't about the big donations, of course that helps, but it's about the constant donations.

Do you believe when it comes to dollars and sense that conferences are really looking for small schools like SMU and Rice or that future potential in UNT, UAB, and UTSA? I'm not being disrespectful with this statement, but for years UNT/UAB was the doormat game for big programs while Rice and SMU were considered "premier". Tides have turned and I believe for forever.

Not sure what this is trying to say. SMU has spent a quarter of a billion on facilities in the last decade with another $100mm solely for Ford Stadium expansion/upgrades.

SMU will never be looking in the rearview mirror at UNT/UTSA in terms of fundraising and financial program support. Its not even close.

LitMedallion · July 11, 2022

1 minute ago, SMU2006 said:

Not sure what this is trying to say. SMU has spent a quarter of a billion on facilities in the last decade with another $100mm solely for Ford Stadium expansion/upgrades.

SMU will never be looking in the rearview mirror at UNT/UTSA in terms of fundraising and financial program support. Its not even close.

And yet, we are in the same conference. That's what I thought I was saying. I also thought I was saying Rice's and SMU's "money" won't make any conference more money than UTSA or UNT.

NT80 · July 11, 2022

1 hour ago, LitMedallion said:

Do you believe when it comes to dollars and sense that conferences are really looking for small schools like SMU and Rice or that future potential in UNT, UAB, and UTSA?

Expansion articles mention that size matters now in candidates...market size, school size, alumni base size, etc.

These are all reasons that Smut has been bypassed by the Big12 and Pac12, etc. It "doesn't move the needle" was one term used.

Smut is not Dallas' team. It's market is Highland Park, and it always has been limited. These Conference executives know it too.

SMU2006 · July 11, 2022

17 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Expansion articles mention that size matters now in candidates...market size, school size, alumni base size, etc.

These are all reasons that Smut has been bypassed by the Big12 and Pac12, etc. It "doesn't move the needle" was one term used.

Smut is not Dallas' team. It's market is Highland Park, and it always has been limited. These Conference executives know it too.

What does that make UNT?

SMU2006 · July 11, 2022

Also I guess these don't qualify as media reports linking SMU to the PAC, Big 12, and ACC?

https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2022/07/11/big-12-smu-have-had-expansion-conversations-report/

https://trojanswire.usatoday.com/2022/07/06/if-pac-12-doesnt-merge-with-acc-smu-is-one-of-a-select-few-expansion-candidates/

https://theathletic.com/3403475/2022/07/06/college-football-realignment-mountain-west-aac/

NT80 · July 11, 2022

50 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

What does that make UNT?

Bigger. And better in terms of larger enrollment (on campus students) and alumni base. Plus large state university (no religious controversy).

NT80 · July 11, 2022

1 hour ago, SMU2006 said:

Also I guess these don't qualify as media reports linking SMU to the PAC, Big 12, and ACC?

https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2022/07/11/big-12-smu-have-had-expansion-conversations-report/

https://trojanswire.usatoday.com/2022/07/06/if-pac-12-doesnt-merge-with-acc-smu-is-one-of-a-select-few-expansion-candidates/

https://theathletic.com/3403475/2022/07/06/college-football-realignment-mountain-west-aac/

Smu has history in a bigger conference (SWC) and people remember that (beyond the cheating and death penalty), thus the media reference as a potential replacement.

However, the criteria many say is critical now is size, ie large universities. Any combo of large following, large enrollment, large alumni base, …large market share, something.

SMU2006 · July 11, 2022

49 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Smu has history in a bigger conference (SWC) and people remember that (beyond the cheating and death penalty), thus the media reference as a potential replacement.

However, the criteria many say is critical now is size, ie large universities. Any combo of large following, large enrollment, large alumni base, …large market share, something.

SMU has the largest athletic budget of any school left in the G5 and sits in the 5th largest media market in the country. Ranked in football each of the last three seasons and planning a $100mm stadium renovation.

Does the small private school thing hurt? Sure. But if school size is a factor why isn't UNT being mentioned in these articles but SMU is mentioned in multiple realignment articles right now?

LitMedallion · July 11, 2022

47 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

SMU has the largest athletic budget of any school left in the G5 and sits in the 5th largest media market in the country. Ranked in football each of the last three seasons and planning a $100mm stadium renovation.

Does the small private school thing hurt? Sure. But if school size is a factor why isn't UNT being mentioned in these articles but SMU is mentioned in multiple realignment articles right now?

Seeing is believing. Many of these writers see the current UNT as the yesteryear UNT. It's a stigma, unfortunately, but by no means an accurate one. UCF was able to make the jump for 2 reasons; success on the field and sheer size of school. There might be a 3rd one of no immediate market competition for UCF. TCU might be a hindrance to joining the "Big 12" for SMU or UNT.

NT80 · July 11, 2022

1 hour ago, SMU2006 said:

SMU has the largest athletic budget of any school left in the G5 and sits in the 5th largest media market in the country. Ranked in football each of the last three seasons and planning a $100mm stadium renovation.

Does the small private school thing hurt? Sure. But if school size is a factor why isn't UNT being mentioned in these articles but SMU is mentioned in multiple realignment articles right now?

Smu still has name recognition from the SWC days. UNT doesn't have that history, but has been moving up... Southland > Big West > SunBelt > CUSA > AAC, and it is because of size, location, and facilities.

Big athletic budgets and big donations are great, just not what the conferences are looking for. What did Houston, Cincy, BYU, and UCF all have for the Big12 that Smu didn't?.... Winning, along with Fans and Size.... no mention of donations.

Instead of $73 mil donated by 1000 people, if you had 73 million people donate just $1 you could probably get into any conference you wanted.

Size matters!