Will Littrell circle the wagons like Dickey?

Jonnyeagle · June 7, 2022

Hoping for the best but I can't help but wonder, what if this season does not turn out well for LIttrell? I always hated the way things ended up with Dickey and how he circled the wagons against the fans and started wearing the black jerseys.

Hopefully he will win a lot of games and we won't see a repeat of the black jerseys again.

untjim1995 · June 7, 2022

41 minutes ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Hoping for the best but I can't help but wonder, what if this season does not turn out well for LIttrell? I always hated the way things ended up with Dickey and how he circled the wagons against the fans and started wearing the black jerseys.

Hopefully he will win a lot of games and we won't see a repeat of the black jerseys again.

The Hutch Youth Black Jersey Night...the Dickster really showed us that night, didn't he?

GrandGreen · June 7, 2022

1 hour ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Hoping for the best but I can't help but wonder, what if this season does not turn out well for LIttrell? I always hated the way things ended up with Dickey and how he circled the wagons against the fans and started wearing the black jerseys.

Hopefully he will win a lot of games and we won't see a repeat of the black jerseys again.

Why would you even consider that Littrell is as classless as DD?

DD had a lot of off field issues, that apparently he has conquered as an assistant coach.

greenminer · June 7, 2022

You think Dickey circled the wagons because he was losing?

Dickey spent his entire tenure battling RV, low budget, and an anti-football administration.

SL spent his entire tenure in Apogee, with Baker, the highest budget in CUSA, and all the administrative support one could dream of.

Edited June 7, 2022 by greenminer

Dannymacfan · June 7, 2022

I'd take Dickey back in a heartbeat. Dude had not near the support and facilities we have now. He's done great everywhere he's been since leaving here. For the record it was wrong to have fired him when he was having so many health issues. We wouldn't be able to do that these days and shouldn't have done it then either.

El Paso Eagle · June 7, 2022

I believe he stepped over that imaginary line when he pulled the Black Jersey stunt. There is no reason he should not have had another shot at a G5 or FCS school; unless he no longer wanted to be a HC.

greenminer · June 8, 2022

4 hours ago, Dannymacfan said:

For the record it was wrong to have fired him when he was having so many health issues.

If I'm bossman and I have an employee that is failing and should be fired, I'm not sure keeping him just because of his health is the way to go.

You're trying to say we pulled a jackass move, but I don't think the answer is so straightforward easy.

glick1980 · June 8, 2022

Or will he circle the turlet like Benford?

Cr1028 · June 8, 2022

6 hours ago, greenminer said:

You think Dickey circled the wagons because he was losing?

Dickey spent his entire tenure battling RV, low budget, and an anti-football administration.

SL spent his entire tenure in Apogee, with Baker, the highest budget in CUSA, and all the administrative support one could dream of.

If only Littrell were lucky enough to have us drop into a conference of FBS spares and startups.

GrandGreen · June 8, 2022

9 hours ago, greenminer said:

You think Dickey circled the wagons because he was losing?

Dickey spent his entire tenure battling RV, low budget, and an anti-football administration.

SL spent his entire tenure in Apogee, with Baker, the highest budget in CUSA, and all the administrative support one could dream of.

Yes, when a coach calls his school's fans a bunch of XXXX, he should have been fired, and much earlier.

Every time I see this low budget crap, I wonder if those that use that argument bothered to check the budgets of most of the teams that NT played.

He pulled the black jersey stunt after he was fired, so yes it was because he was losing and lost his job because of it.

emmitt01 · June 8, 2022

17 hours ago, greenminer said:

You think Dickey circled the wagons because he was losing?

Dickey spent his entire tenure battling RV, low budget, and an anti-football administration.

SL spent his entire tenure in Apogee, with Baker, the highest budget in CUSA, and all the administrative support one could dream of.

Happy Fx Networks GIF by Cake FX

emmitt01 · June 8, 2022

7 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Yes, when a coach calls his school's fans a bunch of XXXX, he should have been fired, and much earlier.

Every time I see this low budget crap, I wonder if those that use that argument bothered to check the budgets of most of the teams that NT played.

He pulled the black jersey stunt after he was fired, so yes it was because he was losing and lost his job because of it.

I traveled to those away games. NONE of those stadiums (not even Malone in Monroe) were the dump that Fouts was. And, unless I missed them as I drove through the parking lots, there weren't portable generators brought in just to keep the lights on...and that is saying nothing of the locker rooms. Remember the time we turned the lights off in the Baylor locker room, not because we wanted to but because we literally lost power?

Or, how about the time the athletic department gave away a bus trip to Austin to see us play...but had to take the fans off of that bus to put the players on it because the players' bus broke down? I do, because I was on that fan bus.

We can keep trotting the fan fiction of "but he played in 5-3A the whole time" out all we want, but what we can't do is ignore that nobody else in that league of "start ups and leftovers" managed to put together a similar run in that league. Somehow, even with the 10 combined NFL draft picks that came from those schools between 2001-2004, they didn't do what lil' ol' North Texas did.

And, can we please gather the guys like Brandon Kennedy, Patrick Cobbs, Jonas Buckles, Andy Blount, and Johnny Quinn and tell them, directly, "Guys, you only won because the teams you played were so incredibly bad."

Cr1028 · June 8, 2022

4 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

And, can we please gather the guys like Brandon Kennedy, Patrick Cobbs, Jonas Buckles, Andy Blount, and Johnny Quinn and tell them, directly, "Guys, you only won because the teams you played were so incredibly bad."

So does the credit go to our historically great players or their coach? Because Dickey wouldn’t have sniffed a title had the Big West not dissolved. He also lost to Troy and FAU in the span of the 26 game conference winning streak. I can’t remember the number but during that 4 year run we only beat very, very few teams with a winning record. My recollection was less than five.

RBP79 · June 8, 2022

11 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

If only Littrell were lucky enough to have us drop into a conference of FBS spares and startups.

NT was basically a start up D1 spare when DD took over....we just returned to D1 in 1995.

Cr1028 · June 8, 2022

28 minutes ago, RBP79 said:

NT was basically a start up D1 spare when DD took over....we just returned to D1 in 1995.

You’re absolutely right and Matt Simon left a team that had gone 5-5 in Big West play to Dickey who proceeded to go 5-11 in Big West play over the next 3 seasons.

untjim1995 · June 8, 2022

Dickey was just not the personality you needed at a place like this. He was a good coach WHEN he had talent on defense and at QB. But nobody really liked him that much because he was just a beaten down dude. There's a reason he's never been a head coach again.

Simon had the personality and the swagger for the fans, but he was severely paranoid...about everything. And it eventually sunk his ship.

Littrell's persona is more like DD than anyone else we have had. He just doesn't connect with the fanbase at all. My guess is that he will follow the Dickster's future career path and be an OC going forward.

We need a coach here that has personality to inject energy into the fans. DMac had it, then for many reasons, it went away after 2013. But that's what it takes here to make a difference with fan support. And then actually use that fan support to win games.

greenminer · June 8, 2022

10 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Yes, when a coach calls his school's fans a bunch of XXXX, he should have been fired, and much earlier.

Every time I see this low budget crap, I wonder if those that use that argument bothered to check the budgets of most of the teams that NT played.

He pulled the black jersey stunt after he was fired, so yes it was because he was losing and lost his job because of it.

Yes, even relative to our fellow SBC foes, we were AWFUL when it came to budget and support. And I don't remember reading about any feuding between their coaches and their AD. Dickey an RV couldn't stand each other.

Did Dickey handle it well? No. Did we make it easy for him? Nope. The entire situation was a mess.

My point is: SL has all the blessings in the world compared to Dickey. IMO, he (SL) would be a total dope and lose a ton of my respect for him as an individual (not just coach) if he did what the author of this thread is suggesting.

untjim1995 · June 8, 2022

2 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Yes, even relative to our fellow SBC foes, we were AWFUL when it came to budget and support. And I don't remember reading about any feuding between their coaches and their AD. Dickey an RV couldn't stand each other.

Did Dickey handle it well? No. Did we make it easy for him? Nope. The entire situation was a mess.

My point is: SL has all the blessings in the world compared to Dickey. IMO, he (SL) would be a total dope and lose a ton of my respect for him as an individual (not just coach) if he did what the author of this thread is suggesting.

Usually, coaches that are desperate and know their jobs are on the line will use the "Circle-the-wagons" talk with their players. SL might do that, but hasn't shown that yet.

greenminer · June 8, 2022

2 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

So does the credit go to our historically great players or their coach?

Another either/or proposal that should never be an either/or proposal.

greenminer · June 8, 2022

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

Usually, coaches that are desperate and know their jobs are on the line will use the "Circle-the-wagons" talk with their players. SL might do that, but hasn't shown that yet.

Maybe, but only one of those coaches has ever thrown together black jerseys from the local Y for their D1 football finale.

Edited June 8, 2022 by greenminer

untjim1995 · June 8, 2022

Just now, greenminer said:

Maybe, but only one of those coaches has ever thrown together black jerseys.

Very true--and breaking them out for your last home game in front of hundreds of fans as you finish out your 3-9 season really showed the university's leaders they were in the wrong...

greenminer · June 8, 2022

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

...really showed the university's leaders they were in the wrong...

Just his way of giving the AD the middle finger on his way out the door. I don't believe for a second that he cared if it was classless or showed them how wrong they were. I'm not condoning it, but it's crazy to think how mad (enraged?) he was in that moment to pull that move.

GrandGreen · June 8, 2022

1 minute ago, GrandGreen said:

2 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

I traveled to those away games. NONE of those stadiums (not even Malone in Monroe) were the dump that Fouts was. And, unless I missed them as I drove through the parking lots, there weren't portable generators brought in just to keep the lights on...and that is saying nothing of the locker rooms. Remember the time we turned the lights off in the Baylor locker room, not because we wanted to but because we literally lost power?

Or, how about the time the athletic department gave away a bus trip to Austin to see us play...but had to take the fans off of that bus to put the players on it because the players' bus broke down? I do, because I was on that fan bus.

We can keep trotting the fan fiction of "but he played in 5-3A the whole time" out all we want, but what we can't do is ignore that nobody else in that league of "start ups and leftovers" managed to put together a similar run in that league. Somehow, even with the 10 combined NFL draft picks that came from those schools between 2001-2004, they didn't do what lil' ol' North Texas did.

And, can we please gather the guys like Brandon Kennedy, Patrick Cobbs, Jonas Buckles, Andy Blount, and Johnny Quinn and tell them, directly, "Guys, you only won because the teams you played were so incredibly bad."

Fouts was definitely not a plus, but I wouldn't call it a dump because it provided a relatively good experience for watching a game. I have also been to a lot of away games mostly in driving distance from the dfw area and don't remember any stadiums of NT tier teams that were much better.inclusive of Memphis, ULL, MTSU, La Tech etc. Of course that would depend on your perceptions or preferences for stadiums.

As an aside, the Pit (men's gym) deserved the title Dump much more and it was a great place to watch a game. No comfort at all, but great games.

As far as issues like the one you mentioned, I am sure that like teams had similar issues with their facilities. NT in those years spend as little as possible and yet maintain a football team.

Back to the main subject, Dickey. I give him a lot of credit for his conference winning streak. It was a great feat no matter what the overall quality of the opposition was.

As far as great players, is there any team that doesn't have a list of outstanding players from any period? DD and NT had one completely outstanding recruiting year (2000) which including Spencer, Buckles, Kennedy and a bunch others that included a total of 6 or 7 that make Texas top one hundred recruiting rankings.

To my knowledge, DD or NT has never come close to that before or after although the class that including Greene and Hardman was probably better.

We can debate relative facilities among teams about fifty years ago, but comparing current vs that time period is problematic to me. Any team that has not made major progress in resources is ether no longer in D1 or was in a great position to begin with.

I have also noticed that although you seem to be defending Dickey, you don't comment on the bizarre behavior in his last few NT years with which he basically fired himself.

TheColonyEagle · June 8, 2022

15 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

If only Littrell were lucky enough to have us drop into a conference of FBS spares and startups.

But Littrell has been in a conference of FBS spares and startups. Just because it has the name "CUSA" doesn't mean it doesn't fit that description. Littrell has been in the worst conference in the nation his tenure here. Worse than the Sunbelt.

GrandGreen · June 8, 2022

33 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

But Littrell has been in a conference of FBS spares and startups. Just because it has the name "CUSA" doesn't mean it doesn't fit that description. Littrell has been in the worst conference in the nation his tenure here. Worse than the Sunbelt.

I actually think CUSA has been a very good location for NT and like teams. Although with the pending conference change, it doesn't matter.

Remind me what start-ups are currently in CUSA?

If you want to parse the differences in G5 leagues, have fun. Just remember that there are more sports than football and academics do matter.

To the bias person I am, there are a few Belt teams I prefer that NT not be conference mates with. I don't have a problems with the CUSA mix other than the large area it covers.

CUSA has 4 Texas teams and NT has some great history with teams like MTSU and WKU

CUSA is the conference no team wants to be in, but until recently no team was good enough to have other options.

Every true fan wants the best for the team they follow. However, there is reality that should be recognized and dealt with.

Until NT wins consistently and gets much better support both in terms of attendance and donations, there are not a lot of options for moving upward.