A G5 top 25

[TheColonyEagle]

We play 5 of them….

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

1 hour ago, TheColonyEagle said:

We play 5 of them….

Littrell’s got his work cut out for him if he wants to save his job. It’s a dream schedule for any “Littrell Out” people

[UNTLifer]

Gee, I thought this was the year the schedule was easy.

[Jonnyeagle]

Cry me a river.  I still say UTSA has the much harder schedule.

they have Houston, Army, Texas, WKU, UAB, Tech UTEP.  The only easy games they have are TSU, Rice, FIU and us.

[Mike Jackson]

21 minutes ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Cry me a river.  I still say UTSA has the much harder schedule.

they have Houston, Army, Texas, WKU, UAB, Tech UTEP.  The only easy games they have are TSU, Rice, FIU and us.

Exactly and that is not even mentioning that UTSA started their program from scratch in 2009, and UAB shuttered their program for 2 years.  

[GrandGreen]

15 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

Exactly and that is not even mentioning that UTSA started their program from scratch in 2009, and UAB shuttered their program for 2 years.  

Or mentioning that UTSA is in the the second largest city in Texas and with no pro football competition. 

Also got beat by NT when it mattered most to them.

UTSA has done very well in a short time, but they obviously can be beat.

Based on NT's performance the last two years, I can understand the rankings.   However, if Littrell or team is afraid of this schedule then NT needs a new staff starting at the top.   

Edited May 24, 2022 by GrandGreen

[untjim1995]

You know, not that long ago, I said this was gonna happen--that we would start seeing a G5 Top25 poll, just as a means of continuing the divide between the power leagues and the rest of us. 

This is the best thing that can happen--make this schism occur ASAP. Let our programs get a REAL chance at being a national champion--the players, coaches, and fans of these institutions deserve to have that opportunity every year. We are the ONLY level of football, from pee wee to the NFL, that doesn't crown a champion at the end of its season, all because of money. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

You know, not that long ago, I said this was gonna happen--that we would start seeing a G5 Top25 poll, just as a means of continuing the divide between the power leagues and the rest of us. 

This is the best thing that can happen--make this schism occur ASAP. Let our programs get a REAL chance at being a national champion--the players, coaches, and fans of these institutions deserve to have that opportunity every year. We are the ONLY level of football, from pee wee to the NFL, that doesn't crown a champion at the end of its season, all because of money. 

This isn't a poll.  it's literally 1 dude's opinion.  "@biggameboomer".

[untjim1995]

25 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

This isn't a poll.  it's literally 1 dude's opinion.  "@biggameboomer".

True--but that's where this is headed.

[southsideguy]

wait why are we not there?

 

Highest paid coach/five years to build a program with some of the best facilities in CUSA.  I count what 4 programs from CUSA there.  Unacceptable, especially since the level of competition is going to higher next year.  

To early for a list of possible coaches for next hire?  Or will be give a SL another year to see what he can do in the AAC.

I am predicting a 4-8 season.

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by southsideguy

[MeanGreenTexan]

46 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

wait why are we not there?

 

@biggameboomer hadn't heard about Gunnell yet.   That's probably why.

[greenminer]

3 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

You know, not that long ago, I said this was gonna happen--that we would start seeing a G5 Top25 poll, just as a means of continuing the divide between the power leagues and the rest of us. 

We've been seeing Mid Major polls for over a decade in CBB.  I've never felt that it was amplifying a divide between the Blue Bloods and the rest of us.  How/why do you feel this is different?

[Mike Jackson]

23 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Or mentioning that UTSA is in the the second largest city in Texas and with no pro football competition. 

Didn’t realize Dallas Cowboys were recruiting and snatching 3 star prospects and underclassmen from the transfer portal. Are fall Sundays, Mondays, and Thursdays The only time prospects can visit UNT campus?   How did Lil Ole private school TCU get back to national prominence after being left out of the Big 12?  How did SMU ever get ranked again after being left out of the Big 12 and before that getting the death penalty?  The pro football thing only applies to game attendance.   Stop it with the excuses.  The self-inflict it wounds here are too numerous to recount here.  And I am in the opinion that we are witnessing another wound infliction  by retaining an offensive 0.500 coach whose offensive specialty (remember let it fly) has been on a downward/flatline trend 3 straight years.  You can support this team without making excuses for them.

Show me “we beat UTSA” trophy.  Where were we ranked after that great victory?  Did we get a good bowl game because it with an opponent people knew and wanted to see from that UTSA victory?  I know UTSA got a CUSA championship trophy after  that and in spite of that “devastating” lost.  And yes we can beat  them and there is no excuse for not beating them 2 out every 3 times for the first 15 years of their program.  But minus this freakishly bad weather game we would be below 0.500 to them right now 9 years into this rivalry.  

Seth should  already be gone and saying things like “San Antonio is the second largest city in Texas with no pro competition” is kind of logitech keeps mediocrity going here.   
 

There are too many resources here to have any Excuse for consistent mediocrity and more really bad seasons than really great seasons.  I challenge you to look at the other 12 Texas schools that play FBS level football over the past 10 years look at their resources comparing them to ours and our outcomes.  I think you will come to the conclusion that we drastically underachieving.  So giving copious kudos points for a victory over a 10 year old program just doesn’t make sense to me.  Especially when it barely got up to 6 win threshold without beating 6 FBS teams. At the end of the regular season we were still sub 0.500 against FBS teams.  Then topped it off with a hard fought loss against Juggernaut Ohio St—- I mean Ohio Bobcat— er I mean Miami of Ohio,   Yes The victory over UTSA was fun but it shouldn’t have saved Seth’s job by itself because it was a bad season.  It wasn’t a disaster but, it was bad.  A  below 500 record against FBS teams season is a bad season.  We should be better than UTSA we should be like 6-3 at worst against them and have a CUSA title like they do.  

[GrandGreen]

Yeah, you definitely got it figured out.

I have no idea what you are trying to convey.

I guess you still have hopes, Littrell is going to get fire off-season.  

 

[untjim1995]

13 hours ago, greenminer said:

We've been seeing Mid Major polls for over a decade in CBB.  I've never felt that it was amplifying a divide between the Blue Bloods and the rest of us.  How/why do you feel this is different?

Well, in the college basketball world, all schools and conferences normally get a chance to be invited. Mid major polls do a good job of getting some Cinderella type teams identified for potential at-large berths or for helping the RPI of the power guys who played them at home during the OOC regular season.

Football is different in so many ways because the playoff is basically the same 6-8 teams competing for a championship.  Getting a non-power team into the playoff happened this year, but it was a named program going to a power league. I wouldn’t hold my breath on another one getting in anytime soon.

But the G5 does get a scrap, a BCS bowl game, which does pay well and gives your school some solid advertising. Having a G5 poll would require lazy college sports media members to actually acknowledge these teams during October/November. Schools like TCU, Boise State, UCF, UH, and Cincy have used these bowl games to build brand names. Western Michigan, Northern Illinois, and Hawaii did not. But a poll covering this would again give attention to programs that don’t get any. 

[untjim1995]

7 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

Didn’t realize Dallas Cowboys were recruiting and snatching 3 star prospects and underclassmen from the transfer portal. Are fall Sundays, Mondays, and Thursdays The only time prospects can visit UNT campus?   How did Lil Ole private school TCU get back to national prominence after being left out of the Big 12?  How did SMU ever get ranked again after being left out of the Big 12 and before that getting the death penalty?  The pro football thing only applies to game attendance.   Stop it with the excuses.  The self-inflict it wounds here are too numerous to recount here.  And I am in the opinion that we are witnessing another wound infliction  by retaining an offensive 0.500 coach whose offensive specialty (remember let it fly) has been on a downward/flatline trend 3 straight years.  You can support this team without making excuses for them.

Show me “we beat UTSA” trophy.  Where were we ranked after that great victory?  Did we get a good bowl game because it with an opponent people knew and wanted to see from that UTSA victory?  I know UTSA got a CUSA championship trophy after  that and in spite of that “devastating” lost.  And yes we can beat  them and there is no excuse for not beating them 2 out every 3 times for the first 15 years of their program.  But minus this freakishly bad weather game we would be below 0.500 to them right now 9 years into this rivalry.  

Seth should  already be gone and saying things like “San Antonio is the second largest city in Texas with no pro competition” is kind of logitech keeps mediocrity going here.   
 

There are too many resources here to have any Excuse for consistent mediocrity and more really bad seasons than really great seasons.  I challenge you to look at the other 12 Texas schools that play FBS level football over the past 10 years look at their resources comparing them to ours and our outcomes.  I think you will come to the conclusion that we drastically underachieving.  So giving copious kudos points for a victory over a 10 year old program just doesn’t make sense to me.  Especially when it barely got up to 6 win threshold without beating 6 FBS teams. At the end of the regular season we were still sub 0.500 against FBS teams.  Then topped it off with a hard fought loss against Juggernaut Ohio St—- I mean Ohio Bobcat— er I mean Miami of Ohio,   Yes The victory over UTSA was fun but it shouldn’t have saved Seth’s job by itself because it was a bad season.  It wasn’t a disaster but, it was bad.  A  below 500 record against FBS teams season is a bad season.  We should be better than UTSA we should be like 6-3 at worst against them and have a CUSA title like they do.  

Have you watched UNT Football at all over the last, oh, say 40 years? Because everything you posted about is basically the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what we do here. There is one excuse that cannot be defeated here and it’s monstrous: Apathy. We care about one game a year, against SMU. After that, the crowds are about 10-20k depending on how we are doing and who we are playing. There are almost 40k college students at UNT, 300k living alumni in DFW, and millions surrounding us…and that gets us about 15k on a Saturday in the fall against a CUSA team.
 

As far as SL goes, We have no money for buying out his contract and his staff and then hiring someone else.. We aren’t paying off $1.3 million extra dollars to get rid of the darling of the biggest donors the athletic department. That is not how it’s done here. Never has been, never will. And, yes, pro sports of every type kills us for attention and ticket buyers. In November, a DFW resident can go watch the Cowboys, Mavs, Stars. TCU, SMU, or UNT. Now ask yourself which team I listed above gets mentioned last on almost every newscast? And beating UTSA didn’t save SL’s job…beating UTEP saved his job. And beating FIU and UTSA were the whipped cream and cherry on the sundae.

[Wag Tag]

This is an excellent set up to see if Seth should be fired or given a short term extension. To easy of a schedule would not give us a true barometer.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Lol.   Seeing lots of, "we have a difficult schedule!!" vibes in this thread.     Yet, when the schedule originally came out, most were basically assuring 6-7 wins based on how easy it is.

If you think NT's offense took a nose-dive when Graham Harrell left, WKU's about to ask you to hold their beer.   
Losing Kittley and OL coach Hamby to TXTech, and replacing them with a 3-headed monster as "co-OC's" (a 2nd year WR coach who was coaching in HS in 2020, and 2 former Offensive Quality Control guys).   Not to mention, they don't have Zappe anymore.   WKU is primed for a huge dropoff, but I assume most would think we're going to lose to them... and we might, but I think this game is more of a tossup.   And even if we lose to the other 4 teams on this list (highly likely), that still leaves 8 winnable games!

[Mike Jackson]

On 5/25/2022 at 4:21 AM, untjim1995 said:

Have you watched UNT Football at all over the last, oh, say 40 years? Because everything you posted about is basically the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what we do here. There is one excuse that cannot be defeated here and it’s monstrous: Apathy. We care about one game a year, against SMU. After that, the crowds are about 10-20k depending on how we are doing and who we are playing. There are almost 40k college students at UNT, 300k living alumni in DFW, and millions surrounding us…and that gets us about 15k on a Saturday in the fall against a CUSA team.
 

As far as SL goes, We have no money for buying out his contract and his staff and then hiring someone else.. We aren’t paying off $1.3 million extra dollars to get rid of the darling of the biggest donors the athletic department. That is not how it’s done here. Never has been, never will. And, yes, pro sports of every type kills us for attention and ticket buyers. In November, a DFW resident can go watch the Cowboys, Mavs, Stars. TCU, SMU, or UNT. Now ask yourself which team I listed above gets mentioned last on almost every newscast? And beating UTSA didn’t save SL’s job…beating UTEP saved his job. And beating FIU and UTSA were the whipped cream and cherry on the sundae.

You have to beat the opponent in front of you.  Need I remind you that only reason the Cowboys became available to Jerry Jones to buy was the consistent LOSING, low attendance and TV Blackout of a few home games.  This program has a reputation for losing.  None of our the pro teams aren’t to the affect losing has on apathy.   When we beat Arkansas that got a ton of coverage because we had a good record and the bear a well known program.  And the tickets for our games are no where near the prices for bad seats at a Cowboys game.  UNT sports is not competing for pro sports consumers. And to suggest they are is just foolish.  
 

All time we have a below 0.500 record against CUSA opponents.   We are 0.500 all time and way below that if you throw out our record as a FCS team or against FCS teams as an FBS team.   And I shutter to think what our overall records would look if we didn’t beat up on UTEP, New Mexico State, and Texas State.  We are a combined +50 against those teams. 
 

The apathy here is EARNED.   Here with a whole bunch of losses to the teams “we care about”.   You could give out free tickets and not pack Apogee with 3 losing seasons for every season with 8 wins+
 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Mike Jackson

[El Paso Eagle]

UTSA is positioning itself to be the next University of Houston. We seem to keep striving to #Hit6

[Mike Jackson]

15 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

UTSA is positioning itself to be the next University of Houston. We seem to keep striving to #Hit6

Exactly and but I guess University of Houston don’t have any pro teams around there to make them suck so UTSA can aspire to be like them. 🤣

Edited May 28, 2022 by Mike Jackson

[untjim1995]

3 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

Exactly and but I guess University of Houston don’t have any pro teams around there to make them suck so UTSA can aspire to be like them. 🤣

UH does have those pro teams around for sure…and when they aren’t good, it shows dramatically in their attendance.

But here is your difference…and @Cougar Kingwill back this up. UH made sports important decades ago. They are a huge school with a lot of alumni in business/science/engineering. Their football team has been ranked in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, and the 20s. Their basketball program has been hugely successful at times I’ve the last 55 years, from beating UCLA in the first nationally televised game in the Astrodome, to Phi Slamma Jamma, to their team today that recently has gone to the Final Four and is currently expected to be Top 5 next year. How did they do it? They paid for and kept good coaches AND fired coaches who didn’t meet their expectations. Why did they do it? Because they have monied alumni who care…a lot more than a school based on getting teachers and artists educated, which is what we are proudly known for. Nothing wrong with it, either, but it doesn’t add up to having sports matter. We keep coaches until they are affordable to fire. There are exceptions, of course, like DMac being fired ASAP after the worst loss in modern college football history. But the reality is that Jimmy Gales, Corky Nelson, Dennis Parker, Matt Simon, Vic Trilli, Darrell Dickey, Todd Dodge, Tony Benford, and now, Seth Littrell, all got canned when there contracts were at an affordable spot to be let go…not a moment sooner. Look at the records of these people before they got fired—they all deserved to be let go before they actually got fired. Extra year(s) because of lack of money or lack of Will to spend it. UH don’t play that game…and we shall see if upstart UTSA will, either. We don’t know. UTSA is the new kid on the block, but they have a lot of corporate and civic sponsors that we don’t have and will never have. It’s what years of the EARNED APATHY you mentioned costs us today. 

[Cougar King]

2 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

UH does have those pro teams around for sure…and when they aren’t good, it shows dramatically in their attendance.

But here is your difference…and @Cougar Kingwill back this up. UH made sports important decades ago. They are a huge school with a lot of alumni in business/science/engineering. Their football team has been ranked in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, and the 20s. Their basketball program has been hugely successful at times I’ve the last 55 years, from beating UCLA in the first nationally televised game in the Astrodome, to Phi Slamma Jamma, to their team today that recently has gone to the Final Four and is currently expected to be Top 5 next year. How did they do it? They paid for and kept good coaches AND fired coaches who didn’t meet their expectations. Why did they do it? Because they have monied alumni who care…a lot more than a school based on getting teachers and artists educated, which is what we are proudly known for. Nothing wrong with it, either, but it doesn’t add up to having sports matter. We keep coaches until they are affordable to fire. There are exceptions, of course, like DMac being fired ASAP after the worst loss in modern college football history. But the reality is that Jimmy Gales, Corky Nelson, Dennis Parker, Matt Simon, Vic Trilli, Darrell Dickey, Todd Dodge, Tony Benford, and now, Seth Littrell, all got canned when there contracts were at an affordable spot to be let go…not a moment sooner. Look at the records of these people before they got fired—they all deserved to be let go before they actually got fired. Extra year(s) because of lack of money or lack of Will to spend it. UH don’t play that game…and we shall see if upstart UTSA will, either. We don’t know. UTSA is the new kid on the block, but they have a lot of corporate and civic sponsors that we don’t have and will never have. It’s what years of the EARNED APATHY you mentioned costs us today. 

 

Spot on. I will also add that Tony Levine and Major Applewhite were both fired for going 8-5. Just having a winning record and going to a bowl isn't good enough.

We also just started a med school as well. While we obviously have a College of Education and an Art College, they typically do not become future donors. STEM, business and other big money professions are what builds donors. 

 

UNT has the numbers and resources to succeed but the culture and the lack of competent leadership over the last 40 years is what holds them back. 

 

 

 

[greenminer]

@untjim1995 folow-up question: do you think Wren and Co's decision to keep coaches around a little longer (like SL) is because of immediate circles? I know we don't have a ton of high dollar donors, but they are there and I wonder what they feel.

i think I read a few months back that one of our donors really likes SL.

[NM Green]

I do like that Wren seems to have the winner in the wings. I am hopeful that when Seth’s time is up in Denton the next man up is solid motivated and hungry to unleash the power that is UNT. It’s never quick enough for us but worth the wait.

GMG