New commit per Luke

[Wag Tag]

If Seth can pull this class at least in the top 1/3 of C-USA then it would not be a negative when time comes for his review. If we stay in the same range we are now and don't break 100 nationally then this would be a big negative no matter what his win lose is and should have a major impact on rather to renew. A big saving grace for me with Seth has been his recruiting classes I hope this is not lost!

[Mike Jackson]

21 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

If Seth can pull this class at least in the top 1/3 of C-USA then it would not be a negative when time comes for his review. If we stay in the same range we are now and don't break 100 nationally then this would be a big negative no matter what his win lose is and should have a major impact on rather to renew. A big saving grace for me with Seth has been his recruiting classes I hope this is not lost!

It is over for him here.  If they bring him back with anything less than a division title or 10 wins a lot of fans on the fence will depart.  I don’t think you could risk that going into a new conference.  Also I doubt he signs a short term or low buyout extension if he manages a wining record short of the goals I mentioned.  

The job only gets harder in the AAC.  I think leadership is looking at his recruiting class vs future AAC rivals more than the national rankings.  At least I hope they are.   Who cares if we are 55th in recruiting nationally but 9th in the AAC and last in our divsion of the AAC?

[Jonnyeagle]

7 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

It is over for him here.  If they bring him back with anything less than a division title or 10 wins a lot of fans on the fence will depart.  I don’t think you could risk that going into a new conference.  Also I doubt he signs a short term or low buyout extension if he manages a wining record short of the goals I mentioned.  

The job only gets harder in the AAC.  I think leadership is looking at his recruiting class vs future AAC rivals more than the national rankings.  At least I hope they are.   Who cares if we are 55th in recruiting nationally but 9th in the AAC and last in our divsion of the AAC?

I don't know man, it is hard to fire a coach that qualifies for a bowl.  Maybe there are some instances but not very many.

[Mike Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Jonnyeagle said:

I don't know man, it is hard to fire a coach that qualifies for a bowl.  Maybe there are some instances but not very many.

Bowls don’t hold the same value as they did 25 years ago. Ohio nor North Texas get a bowl invitation with the season they had if this were 1999.   I think it would be technically be a resignation with Seth still getting the buyout for the 2023 season.  I doubt they agree to a short term extension with the same base salary that covers the 2025 season.  And I doubt he want to coach the last year of his contract without any security and it makes recruiting extremely hard also.  That isn’t a good situation for the coaches, players, fans, or school/program.  I think true lame duck head coaches (that Aren’t coordinators filling in for a fired head coaches are very rare in college football).  Hell the only instance in the pros I can think of that weren’t extended mid lame duck season or fired before the end of the season was Jason Garrett with the Cowboys.   In the pros you have a guaranteed allocation of new players through the draft.  They have to play for the team that drafted them if they play in the league at all.  No recruiting based on your reputation necessary.

[southsideguy]

6-5 will get you in a bowl, is that what really strive for?

Edited May 5, 2022 by southsideguy

[wardly]

10 hours ago, southsideguy said:

6-5 will get you in a bowl, is that what really strive for?

UNT has been to three bowl games after having a losing record,[ which in itself must be some kind of dubious record] and to no ones surprise lost all of them. Other than the bowl games against Army and Miami of Ohio [and perhaps Troy], we were underdogs and over matched. The UNT fans voted with their feet in the "Frisco Bowl' by staying away in droves. In my opinion a  6&6 bowl team or one with a losing record is no longer of any interest in the Metroplex.

[wardly]

On 5/3/2022 at 1:48 PM, Wag Tag said:

If Seth can pull this class at least in the top 1/3 of C-USA then it would not be a negative when time comes for his review. If we stay in the same range we are now and don't break 100 nationally then this would be a big negative no matter what his win lose is and should have a major impact on rather to renew. A big saving grace for me with Seth has been his recruiting classes I hope this is not lost!

Based upon his on the field results it appears he may recruit well but can't coach ? He recruiting classes have been highly ranked in CUSA the past few years but it certainly has translated to wins.

[MeanGreenTexan]

4 minutes ago, wardly said:

Based upon his on the field results it appears he may recruit well but can't coach ? He recruiting classes have been highly ranked in CUSA the past few years but it certainly has translated to wins.

[meanrob]

On 5/4/2022 at 9:42 AM, Mike Jackson said:

It is over for him here.  If they bring him back with anything less than a division title or 10 wins a lot of fans on the fence will depart.  I don’t think you could risk that going into a new conference.  Also I doubt he signs a short term or low buyout extension if he manages a wining record short of the goals I mentioned.  

The job only gets harder in the AAC.  I think leadership is looking at his recruiting class vs future AAC rivals more than the national rankings.  At least I hope they are.   Who cares if we are 55th in recruiting nationally but 9th in the AAC and last in our divsion of the AAC?

I’m as done as anybody with SL but if he goes 9-3 with Aune at quarterback (or 8-4 for that matter) he’s deserves praise and anybody who jumps off in the “I’m done with this” side of the fence is more anti-SL than pro-UNT. I think there’s almost zero chance we win eight games but it’d be a pretty good season. 
 

Right now 55th in recruiting gets you the fourth best class in the AAC although the top three are the three leaving.  I’d bring flowers to SL myself if he got the 55th best class. Currently we are 117th. 
 

Not sure why we have to draw lines in the sand. The season will probably play out like a lot of us think it will. If nothing happens after that, then it’s time to get out the pitchforks.  
 

 

 

 

 

[DeepGreen]

We're ready!

[GrandGreen]

31 minutes ago, meanrob said:

I’m as done as anybody with SL but if he goes 9-3 with Aune at quarterback (or 8-4 for that matter) he’s deserves praise and anybody who jumps off in the “I’m done with this” side of the fence is more anti-SL than pro-UNT. I think there’s almost zero chance we win eight games but it’d be a pretty good season. 
 

Right now 55th in recruiting gets you the fourth best class in the AAC although the top three are the three leaving.  I’d bring flowers to SL myself if he got the 55th best class. Currently we are 117th. 
 

Not sure why we have to draw lines in the sand. The season will probably play out like a lot of us think it will. If nothing happens after that, then it’s time to get out the pitchforks

Seems at times, that NT has more fans on this board that are anti-Littrell than pro-NT.  Yes, I know most will chime in that they are both, but a few feel that getting rid of Littrell is a better result than NT having a good record.   

I think that Baker will change coaches if NT doesn't have a good year next season.  Good being defined as at least 7 wins and being competitive for the CUSA championship. 

 

[Cr1028]

3 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Yes, good, you appreciate that Littrell had the sense to hire Walerius. See, you can see positive signs from Seth Littrell. I always knew you were a homer like me.

[MeanGreenTexan]

17 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Yes, good, you appreciate that Littrell had the sense to hire Walerius. See, you can see positive signs from Seth Littrell. I always knew you were a homer like me.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Seems at times, that NT has more fans on this board that are anti-Littrell than pro-NT.  Yes, I know most will chime in that they are both, but a few feel that getting rid of Littrell is a better result than NT having a good record.   

I think that Baker will change coaches if NT doesn't have a good year next season.  Good being defined as at least 7 wins and being competitive for the CUSA championship. 

 

Many are looking at the long-term ramifications of keeping Littrell as HC. If the guy can't win in the worst conference in the country, how do we expect him to not embarrass us in the American? I am more than willing to withstand some short-term pain (2022 losing season) if it means we can finally get rid of Littrell and get a good head coach in to hit the ground running in our new conference. Looking out for the greater good of our school in spite of short term pain is about as pro-NT as you can get. 

[southsideguy]

Wish we of used this year as transition year with a new coach but I get what you are saying.

 

[MGNation92]

9 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

Many are looking at the long-term ramifications of keeping Littrell as HC. If the guy can't win in the worst conference in the country, how do we expect him to not embarrass us in the American? I am more than willing to withstand some short-term pain (2022 losing season) if it means we can finally get rid of Littrell and get a good head coach in to hit the ground running in our new conference. Looking out for the greater good of our school in spite of short term pain is about as pro-NT as you can get. 

This exactly.

Where would nUTSAck if they still had Frank Wilson this year? It's the same thing.

Instead they brought in Traylor, lit the world on fire, and are poised for future success in a bigger conference. 

Meanwhile we have a coach relying entirely on an semi retired DC (albeit a good one) to win him games because he can't figure out what kind of offense he wants to run, and can't find a QB to run it anyways.

I'd prefer a 2-10 2022 with a new guy like Traylor way more than 6-6 with Littrell in his seventh year.

[MeanGreenTexan]

44 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

This exactly.

Where would nUTSAck if they still had Frank Wilson this year? It's the same thing.

Instead they brought in Traylor, lit the world on fire, and are poised for future success in a bigger conference. 

Meanwhile we have a coach relying entirely on an semi retired DC (albeit a good one) to win him games because he can't figure out what kind of offense he wants to run, and can't find a QB to run it anyways.

I'd prefer a 2-10 2022 with a new guy like Traylor way more than 6-6 with Littrell in his seventh year.

It would be a catastrophe to only win 2 games this season.  I don't want that at all.  There is too much talent here for that.

I'd much rather have the 6-6 year, but this time, we'd need Baker & Smatresk to actually do something about it instead of sitting back and waiting to see what we get in a bowl game.   6-6 can't be the bar.

[Mike Jackson]

4 hours ago, meanrob said:

Right now 55th in recruiting gets you the fourth best class in the AAC although the top three are the three leaving.  I’d bring flowers to SL myself if he got the 55th best class. Currently we are 117th. 

Not sure why this section was added.  My statement was all about judging Seth’s recruiting classes vs his conference rivals.  If you are asserting that 55th nationally while being last in your division is good, I need you explain.   And for the better part of his tenure factoring in resources, time to establish the program and salary vs his conference peers he has been a poor investment.  I stand by everything I wrote.  If other CUSA coaches can get hired AFTER Seth and exceed everything he has accomplished he in a shorter amount of time the bar for 2022 should be high (Divison Championship or Bust).    Since you want to draw out this hypothetical I will go there with you.  BYU is 55th this year.  That only has them ahead of Kansas & KSU in the Big 12 they are joining in 2023.  (It also has them behind UCF, Cincy, & Houston who will join after 2023). Guaranteed their leadership are happy about that.  The recruiting rank in conference are far more important than national rankings.  Your recruiting ranking against teams that won’t be on your schedule while those recruits are still eligible don’t matter.

7 wins can’t be the bar here because most like that just means they are 6-6 against FBS level opponents.   If this program isn’t hitting 8 wins 2 out of every 3 seasons without playing 2 bodybag games a season it won’t be sustainable at the FBS level eventually.  
 

 [That drop down  might be inevitable given the way economics of the P5 schools are changing.   But keeping a barely above mediocre coach to keep a few diehard coming to games will only accelerate its drop down out FBS.]

I still believe we have a ton of potential fans locally waiting to buy into program once we shake that “perennial loser trying to be mediocre” image.  You only do that by consistently winning.  (8+ wins as long as you are G5 level and don’t have home & home series with regional P5 programs.  If we are playing teams like Houston, OSU, Texas Tech, Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas, KSU Colorado, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and CSU every year and getting them in Apogee every other year hanging around 0.500 is sustainable to build a fan base).  Seth has shown us it is going to be exceptionally hard for him to hit that +8 win mark consistently.  So you are betting against his history here to retain him.

[meanrob]

51 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

Not sure why this section was added.  My statement was all about judging Seth’s recruiting classes vs his conference rivals.  If you are asserting that 55th nationally while being last in your division is good, I need you explain.   And for the better part of his tenure factoring in resources, time to establish the program and salary vs his conference peers he has been a poor investment.  I stand by everything I wrote.  If other CUSA coaches can get hired AFTER Seth and exceed everything he has accomplished he in a shorter amount of time the bar for 2022 should be high (Divison Championship or Bust).    Since you want to draw out this hypothetical I will go there with you.  BYU is 55th this year.  That only has them ahead of Kansas & KSU in the Big 12 they are joining in 2023.  (It also has them behind UCF, Cincy, & Houston who will join after 2023). Guaranteed their leadership are happy about that.  The recruiting rank in conference are far more important than national rankings.  Your recruiting ranking against teams that won’t be on your schedule while those recruits are still eligible don’t matter.

7 wins can’t be the bar here because most like that just means they are 6-6 against FBS level opponents.   If this program isn’t hitting 8 wins 2 out of every 3 seasons without playing 2 bodybag games a season it won’t be sustainable at the FBS level eventually.  
 

 [That drop down  might be inevitable given the way economics of the P5 schools are changing.   But keeping a barely above mediocre coach to keep a few diehard coming to games will only accelerate its drop down out FBS.]

I still believe we have a ton of potential fans locally waiting to buy into program once we shake that “perennial loser trying to be mediocre” image.  You only do that by consistently winning.  (8+ wins as long as you are G5 level and don’t have home & home series with regional P5 programs.  If we are playing teams like Houston, OSU, Texas Tech, Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas, KSU Colorado, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and CSU every year and getting them in Apogee every other year hanging around 0.500 is sustainable to build a fan base).  Seth has shown us it is going to be exceptionally hard for him to hit that +8 win mark consistently.  So you are betting against his history here to retain him.

I didn’t draw it out hypothetically. I used the numbers you provided to show you that according to the rankings I saw, 55th would be fourth in the current AAC. I agree that being at the bottom in recruiting in your conference/division is a bad thing, but 55th isn’t close to being bad for a G5, just pointing that out. 
 

I never said anything about a seven-win bar, you said the bar was ten games. That’s unrealistic. If we win eight or nine, he’s going nowhere unless he wants too. And not a single NT fan I know would “jump off the fence” if we win eight or nine games. 
 

Im no Littrell fan. I’m tired of his inconsistency, mumbling, arm-folding on the sidelines, lousy pressers, inability to field a complete team, bowl losses, yada, yada, yada. But good luck with your “If Seth doesn’t win this…” opinions. Just admit they’re your own and not some mysterious fence-riding fans. 

 

 

[Mike Jackson]

48 minutes ago, meanrob said:

I didn’t draw it out hypothetically. I used the numbers you provided to show you that according to the rankings I saw, 55th would be fourth in the current AAC. I agree that being at the bottom in recruiting in your conference/division is a bad thing, but 55th isn’t close to being bad for a G5, just pointing that out. 
 

I never said anything about a seven-win bar, you said the bar was ten games. That’s unrealistic. If we win eight or nine, he’s going nowhere unless he wants too. And not a single NT fan I know would “jump off the fence” if we win eight or nine games. 
 

Im no Littrell fan. I’m tired of his inconsistency, mumbling, arm-folding on the sidelines, lousy pressers, inability to field a complete team, bowl losses, yada, yada, yada. But good luck with your “If Seth doesn’t win this…” opinions. Just admit they’re your own and not some mysterious fence-riding fans. 

 

 

The goal is to get more fans.  And the 8 wins definitely won’t be the reason fans depart it will the next sub 6 win season that will likely immediately follow it.  Seth stuck here for another 3-4 years with a large buyout.  You are stuck on this 55th 🙄.  It is the conference ranking that matter but you miss that point and are stuck on the national ranking.  Whether G5 or P5 your program isn’t winning anything of significance if your recruiting classes consistently rank near the bottom of the conference you are in.  Even with a 55th ranking and struggling to get to  0.500 in conference play likely has your team at home unless you have a weak  out of conference schedule that you go undefeated in regularly. 

[p_phelps]

Why is it Smu and UTSA are getting countless P5 and highly sought after transfer... we are getting fcs guys. I hope it works out for us but it seems they are doing something very different from us

[wardly]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:05 PM, p_phelps said:

Why is it Smu and UTSA are getting countless P5 and highly sought after transfer... we are getting fcs guys. I hope it works out for us but it seems they are doing something very different from us

Winning?

[p_phelps]

51 minutes ago, wardly said:

Winning?

They were doing this prior to winning,  winning came quickly after.

[Cr1028]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:05 PM, p_phelps said:

Why is it Smu and UTSA are getting countless P5 and highly sought after transfer... we are getting fcs guys. I hope it works out for us but it seems they are doing something very different from us

Three letters.

N

I

L

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Cr1028

[p_phelps]

16 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

Three letters.

N

I

L

 

Utsa was doing this before NIL. And surely we can't say utsa has the alumi base to out spend in nil.