WTF? UNT loses another d-lineman to portal

[NT93]

59 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Ok, answer a hypothetical

Would you rather NT has a horrible season and a coaching change then occurs

or, NT has a great season and Littrell gets a contract extension

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by NT93

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

Thanks for asking this. I would have a hard time rooting for us to lose. 
If I understand the position of many here (and I might be in this camp as well), it is a fear that Seth wins 6-7 against an easier schedule and gets an extension based on that. Then it is easy to imagine then tanking the next couple of seasons against the AAC and stuck with his contract or being forced to buy it out right after the extension. 
Does this capture your thinking?

@untjim1995
@MeanGreenTexan

Absolutely.  

@GrandGreen, can you define "a great season", and "a horrible season"?   
Like, give me some records for each, because there are some here that are thrilled with 7 wins, and would consider that "a great season".   If that's the case, for me, I'll take the former.   7 wins, or "bowl eligible" cannot be the standard around here anymore.   Of course, I don't want any more 1-win, Dodge-like seasons either.   So, if that's the "horrible season" it takes to get rid of him early, I dunno if I want that for our guys either.

If he somehow figures it out and comes up with 9-10+ wins and a West Division championship again like he had in 2017, I'll bring the pen for him to sign with.

[NT93]

3 hours ago, texx2818 said:

I support the team, don’t support the HC.

I think it’s safe to say most people on this board feel the same.

[El Paso Eagle]

34 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Absolutely.  

@GrandGreen, can you define "a great season", and "a horrible season"?   
Like, give me some records for each, because there are some here that are thrilled with 7 wins, and would consider that "a great season".   If that's the case, for me, I'll take the former.   7 wins, or "bowl eligible" cannot be the standard around here anymore.   Of course, I don't want any more 1-win, Dodge-like seasons either.   So, if that's the "horrible season" it takes to get rid of him early, I dunno if I want that for our guys either.

If he somehow figures it out and comes up with 9-10+ wins and a West Division championship again like he had in 2017, I'll bring the pen for him to sign with.

With this schedule  it would need to be 9+ and win a bowl

[GrandGreen]

25 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Absolutely.  

@GrandGreen, can you define "a great season", and "a horrible season"?   
Like, give me some records for each, because there are some here that are thrilled with 7 wins, and would consider that "a great season".   If that's the case, for me, I'll take the former.   7 wins, or "bowl eligible" cannot be the standard around here anymore.   Of course, I don't want any more 1-win, Dodge-like seasons either.   So, if that's the "horrible season" it takes to get rid of him early, I dunno if I want that for our guys either.

If he somehow figures it out and comes up with 9-10+ wins and a West Division championship again like he had in 2017, I'll bring the pen for him to sign with.

 

38 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

Thanks for asking this. I would have a hard time rooting for us to lose. 
If I understand the position of many here (and I might be in this camp as well), it is a fear that Seth wins 6-7 against an easier schedule and gets an extension based on that. Then it is easy to imagine then tanking the next couple of seasons against the AAC and stuck with his contract or being forced to buy it out right after the extension. 
Does this capture your thinking?

@untjim1995
@MeanGreenTexan

Thanks for your responses

Frankly, I don't give a fig whether Littrell is the coach or someone else;  I am nether a fan of Littrell or anywhere close to wishing the team does bad to get rid of him.

Littrell is here next year and I hope he is very successful, and I will trust that Baker will make the right decision no matter what happens next season.   

As far as a predetermined win and loss total as the primary decision point, everyone knows the record can be misleading. If NT loses the first 5 and wins the next 7 or 8 (seem familiar) then that is an extension.  

There are a lot of factors other than record that will play into Baker's decision.   Finances, availability of other coaches, fan support, assumption that Littrell wants to stay, integrity of program, etc. are other factors.   

[GrandGreen]

16 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

With this schedule  it would need to be 9+ and win a bowl

Based on what?

I assume you are referring to the OC games because the conference games are relatively the same.

NT plays SMU and I can't image any scenario  that a NT fan would think this is an easy game. 

UNLV only won 2 games last year, but has added 11 transfers in recruiting and the game is in Las Vegas; far from a gimme. 

Memphis was 6-6 last year which included 3 losses by 3 points or less.  Memphis also beat SMU and Miss. St. 

Not just aimed at you, because I have seen many comments about NT's easy schedule next year.  There is one lower division game, but other than that I don't see any game that NT will be a big favorite to win. 

[NT80]

Wren kept Benford around for the last year of his contract and it was a disaster.  Football is heading the same direction.  Only player's parents are excited about next season.

Many think the cost of the buyout or a donor relationship is the reason SL is back.   Whatever, it's time for Wren to start looking for our football McCasland.

[El Paso Eagle]

41 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Based on what?

I assume you are referring to the OC games because the conference games are relatively the same.

NT plays SMU and I can't image any scenario  that a NT fan would think this is an easy game. 

UNLV only won 2 games last year, but has added 11 transfers in recruiting and the game is in Las Vegas; far from a gimme. 

Memphis was 6-6 last year which included 3 losses by 3 points or less.  Memphis also beat SMU and Miss. St. 

Not just aimed at you, because I have seen many comments about NT's easy schedule next year.  There is one lower division game, but other than that I don't see any game that NT will be a big favorite to win. 

My reply was based on the question of what defines "a great season". 

[GrandGreen]

28 minutes ago, texx2818 said:

After Benford, the first choice. Littrell isn’t going to suddenly become a top tier coach overnight.

I do not understand how a NT fan could opt for a bad season; no matter what.  

First you have to assume that Littrell's team can't get better despite some 9 win seasons.  Second assumption is that NT can identify and sign a better coach.  

Comparison to Benford, who never had a good team despite having probably the most talented player in school history is problematic to me.   He was a great recruiter and probably a great assistant coach but apparently not head coach material. 

 

[GrandGreen]

12 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

My reply was based on the question of what defines "a great season". 

You can obviously define what is a great season to you, use that definition. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I do not understand how a NT fan could opt for a bad season; no matter what.  

First you have to assume that Littrell's team can't get better despite some 9 win seasons.  Second assumption is that NT can identify and sign a better coach.  

Comparison to Benford, who never had a good team despite having probably the most talented player in school history is problematic to me.   He was a great recruiter and probably a great assistant coach but apparently not head coach material. 

 

I understand we have a long history of poor HC hires across several sports that might have a lot of you older guys snakebit.   But I have a lot of confidence in Baker and Smatresk (and GBR) to identify a really good coach. And with NT moving to the AAC, along with paying VERY HANDSOMELY, the solicitations from very qualified coaches should be abundant.   Signing a better coach shouldn't be too difficult.

[NT80]

15 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Comparison to Benford, who never had a good team despite having probably the most talented player in school history is problematic to me.   He was a great recruiter and probably a great assistant coach but apparently not head coach material. 

 

Trilli was the same, great recruiter and assistant, but that doesn't always transfer to being a great head coach.   Seth got lucky with Mason Fine, but was the good offense because of Seth or GH?  It declined after GH left and now is run-based?  Great coaches like Grant can reload and stay good. Seth seems more dependent on finding diamonds or having great assistants on board.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

I do not understand how a NT fan could opt for a bad season; no matter what.  

First you have to assume that Littrell's team can't get better despite some 9 win seasons.  Second assumption is that NT can identify and sign a better coach.  

Comparison to Benford, who never had a good team despite having probably the most talented player in school history is problematic to me.   He was a great recruiter and probably a great assistant coach but apparently not head coach material. 

 

I'm not actively rooting for NT to have a bad season but wouldn't be disappointed if it happens. I think we've seen Littrell's ceiling and truly feel that the longer he sticks around, the more it sets the program back. He's a solid recruiter, I'm sure a nice guy, but outside of couple of fluke seasons, not a winning football coach. Even if he rattles off an upcoming 7, 8, or 9 win season (in a mediocre conference we won't be in next year), all signs point to him getting blown out of a bowl game yet again. 

Regarding finding a better coach, Wren is the new sheriff in town and his basketball hire was an absolute homerun. I'm actually really excited to see who he could bring in for football. I bet that not only could could he make a good hire, but it would be one that reinvigorates a fan base that could use a massive shot of adrenaline right now. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by UNT Texas Hooligan

[untjim1995]

23 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

I'm not actively rooting for NT to have a bad season but wouldn't be disappointed if it happens. I think we've seen Littrell's ceiling and truly feel that the longer he sticks around, the more it sets the program back. He's a solid recruiter, I'm sure a nice guy, but outside of couple of fluke seasons, not a winning football coach. Even if he rattles off an upcoming 7, 8, or 9 win season (in a mediocre conference we won't be in next year), all signs point to him getting blown out of a bowl game yet again. 

Regarding finding a better coach, Wren is the new sheriff in town and his basketball hire was an absolute homerun. I'm actually really excited to see who he could bring in for football. I bet that not only could could he make a good hire, but it would be one that reinvigorates a fan base that could use a massive shot of adrenaline right now. 

I wouldn't root for us to lose, but I recognize that SL is not the answer here. Without GH, his teams have been pretty spare. I realize its a hard place to coach and he would be leaving us in a much better position than when he found it, for which he should be appreciated. But his time here is almost over unless he wins 7 games here. If we do and he gets an extension of 3-4 years, we deserve everything that happens to us. 

[Monkeypox]

How about we win 10+,a bowl game, and Seth gets hired away?

 

(I mean, it's not going to happen, but we don't have to lose for Seth to be gone.)

Edited May 3, 2022 by Monkeypox

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

I'm not actively rooting for NT to have a bad season but wouldn't be disappointed if it happens. I think we've seen Littrell's ceiling and truly feel that the longer he sticks around, the more it sets the program back. He's a solid recruiter, I'm sure a nice guy, but outside of couple of fluke seasons, not a winning football coach. Even if he rattles off an upcoming 7, 8, or 9 win season (in a mediocre conference we won't be in next year), all signs point to him getting blown out of a bowl game yet again. 

Regarding finding a better coach, Wren is the new sheriff in town and his basketball hire was an absolute homerun. I'm actually really excited to see who he could bring in for football. I bet that not only could could he make a good hire, but it would be one that reinvigorates a fan base that could use a massive shot of adrenaline right now. 

Another hire: Rodney DeLong (a more-literal homerun hire).

[GrandGreen]

20 hours ago, texx2818 said:

Because I know that Wren will hire the right candidate who will get us to where we want to go. We are just delaying the inevitable. Sure, last year my prediction was too negative but after getting tricked into going to the Frisco Bowl I will make sure to not do that again as long as Seth is around.

 

21 hours ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

I'm not actively rooting for NT to have a bad season but wouldn't be disappointed if it happens. I think we've seen Littrell's ceiling and truly feel that the longer he sticks around, the more it sets the program back. He's a solid recruiter, I'm sure a nice guy, but outside of couple of fluke seasons, not a winning football coach. Even if he rattles off an upcoming 7, 8, or 9 win season (in a mediocre conference we won't be in next year), all signs point to him getting blown out of a bowl game yet again. 

Regarding finding a better coach, Wren is the new sheriff in town and his basketball hire was an absolute homerun. I'm actually really excited to see who he could bring in for football. I bet that not only could could he make a good hire, but it would be one that reinvigorates a fan base that could use a massive shot of adrenaline right now. 

You do realize that it was Wren who decided to not change coaches.   

So you don't like his decision to retain Littrell, but know he will make the right hire when he is replaced.

Whether it was financial, belief in the current football staff, or he was pressured by alums; Baker opted to not make a change.   My guess there are few AD's that are going to fire a coach who ended the regular season by winning six straight games.  Can you imagine the uproar if he brought in a new coach that goes under .500%  in NT's last year in CUSA.

I commended on this board, after the season that I would like to see a change in the football head coach.  It didn't happen and now I will continue to support the team and hope for an undefeated season.     

Edited May 4, 2022 by GrandGreen

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

48 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

 

You do realize that it was Wren who decided to not change coaches.   

So you don't like his decision to retain Littrell, but know he will make the right hire when he is replaced.

Whether it was financial, belief in the current football staff, or he was pressured by alums; Baker opted to not make a change.   My guess there are few AD's that are going to fire a coach who ended the regular season by winning straight games.  Can you imagine the uproar if he brought in a new coach that goes under .500%  in NT's last year in CUSA.

I commended on this board, after the season that I would like to see a change in the football head coach.  It didn't happen and now I will continue to support the team and hope for an undefeated season.     

Of course I understand that. Not only did he not make the change, but got fleeced on Littrell’s extension too. That doesn’t mean his next hire will be bad. His track record has proven otherwise 

[Cr1028]

4 hours ago, NT80 said:

or having great assistants on board.

This is true of every head coach of just about every sport.

[MeanGreenTexan]

13 hours ago, texx2818 said:

Finances forced Wren’s hand.

That's not what we've been told by people who would know.  I know the easy excuse is the Littrell/Lovelace relationship, but I don't think that was the major factor.

I think the UTSA win forced Wren's hand.   Because I'm betting he had the bar set at a bowl game after the atrocious start, thinking there's no way it would happen...  And without that UTSA win, we wouldn't have made one.

Once we did, he pulled some strings to make the bowl game about as winnable as a bowl game could ever be... and the bed was fully-crapped.   Result didn't matter though, because the low bar was ever-so-slightly cleared.

[untjim1995]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

That's not what we've been told by people who would know.  I know the easy excuse is the Littrell/Lovelace relationship, but I don't think that was the major factor.

I think the UTSA win forced Wren's hand.   Because I'm betting he had the bar set at a bowl game after the atrocious start, thinking there's no way it would happen...  And without that UTSA win, we wouldn't have made one.

Once we did, he pulled some strings to make the bowl game about as winnable as a bowl game could ever be... and the bed was fully-crapped.   Result didn't matter though, because the low bar was ever-so-slightly cleared.

Money is ALWAYS a factor here...and yes, the Lovelace family being the big piece here isn't gonna be disturbed until it has to be, which is at the end of this season. You cannot let a football coach go into his last year of a contract or recruiting will look like you are competing with Hardin-Simmons or West Texas A&M. 

Wren and Neal knew this and as soon as we got to 4 wins, this was a done deal. The UTSA beatdown was just icing on the cake. Then Miami (OH) came down here and took a dump on the cake, but that as too late for us to do anything about it.

[Mike Jackson]

On 4/29/2022 at 9:30 PM, UNTLifer said:

I remember a defense that only needed Cardwell and Booger with one or two spelling them from time to time.

I remember a well coached defense playing in a weak Sun Belt.  That early Dickey run had recruiting advantages over those smaller rural colleges.  Booger would probably transfer to a P5 school with the current rules or go to a P5 before stepping foot on Apogee.

[UNTLifer]

3 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

I remember a well coached defense playing in a weak Sun Belt.  That early Dickey run had recruiting advantages over those smaller rural colleges.  Booger would probably transfer to a P5 school with the current rules or go to a P5 before stepping foot on Apogee.

Okay.  Not sure what this has to do with the topic.

[Mike Jackson]

1 minute ago, UNTLifer said:

Okay.  Not sure what this has to do with the topic.

The topic was D lineman at UNT.  I responded to someone waxing nostalgic about really great DT we had during Dickey’s tenure.  My response is to point out North Texas is a very different program today, NCAA rules are drastically different, and our schedules are much harder than they were during that time.  I believe Booger got to play a few games in the NFL if I not mistaken.  I don’t think any DT on the roster get a NFL camp invite once they out of NCAA eligibility.  🤷🏽‍♂️  So these guys staying here pushing the starters to keep their job might be a good thing.  

[UNTLifer]

9 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

The topic was D lineman at UNT.  I responded to someone waxing nostalgic about really great DT we had during Dickey’s tenure.  My response is to point out North Texas is a very different program today, NCAA rules are drastically different, and our schedules are much harder than they were during that time.  I believe Booger got to play a few games in the NFL if I not mistaken.  I don’t think any DT on the roster get a NFL camp invite once they out of NCAA eligibility.  🤷🏽‍♂️  So these guys staying here pushing the starters to keep their job might be a good thing.  

Thanks.  Wasn't trying to be an ass, but was interested in where you were going with your comment.

It is a different time.  My comment "waxing nostalgic" was in response to the "12 Mighty Orphans" comment.  I don't ever foresee us, nor remember us rotating more than 4 DT's.  These young men that left hadn't cracked the two deep.