Is it time for RV to be inducted in the HOF?

rcade · July 8, 2022

9 minutes ago, cousin oliver said:

Here's what I don't get and maybe you can explain it better. Looking at the list of most recent HOF recipients, I see Tina Slinker listed as basketball coach. It says she was here for 19 seasons but only had 6 winning seasons? But RV got the stadium built and he doesn't get his shot? Please help me understand your methodology.

People keep listing Hall of Fame members they consider unworthy. How does that argue for letting someone in? "We might as well have 5 unworthy people instead of 4" isn't a great selling point.

meanrob · July 8, 2022

Curious to how many of you are pissed at SL but are fine with RV in the HOF because RV is the epitome of a .500 (or worse) AD.

At this point you/we have to become resigned to what the NT HOF is and not what we normally think of who gets in a HOF. I don’t have a problem with RV getting in but I won’t get the same fuzzy feeling as I do with others that are in.

NT80 · July 8, 2022

RV did enough overall good things for the program to warrant inclusion into the HOF. He also oversaw a few gaffes and poor hiring decisions along the way.

Pros: Apogee Stadium and new overall Athletic facility Masterplan, restoring Mean Green name for use and marketing, restoring Mean Green club to official status, Green seats for SuperPit, move to CUSA, Bowl games, encouraged tailgating, upped donations and levels of sponsorship, fired DD when he needed to be fired.

Cons: Hired Benford, hiring Dodge was good for media buzz...but letting or requiring HS assistants was a terrible decision, left many AD staff and ineffective coaches on payroll too long, overstayed his effectiveness.

untphd · July 8, 2022

2 hours ago, rcade said:

I vote hell no on this. We had to accept mediocrity for too many years while RV was kept in the AD job and I don't want to be celebrating it just six years later.

Ask again in 20 years.

I 100 % agree with this. Ask again in 25 years.

GreenFlag · July 8, 2022

When RV got here, we only "participated" at the FBS level in athletics. We were battling it out with ULM for least resources of all Division 1 programs that had a football program. Think about that. We were amongst the bottom of the newly formed and poor Sun Belt Conference.

Our football team played in debatably the worst stadium with the worst field in all of FBS. Our "athletic center" (coaches offices, weight room, etc.) were in the bowels of said stadium. The field had a track around it, so it was also the track and field program headquarters. Our soccer team played their home games at a local park. It might have been at the same local park our softball team played, or maybe they played at the intramural fields? I think the volleyball team played at the old Snake Pit, my apologies to Pits. Swimming and Diving? The old PEB swimming pool. Our tennis team played on the courts next to the Super Pit complete with 1" cracks in the surface. I have no idea where or how the golf team practiced or worked out. The Super Pit, which was the crown jewel of UNT facilities, had bright orange fabric seats that were filthy. As in every single seat had a stain in a color other than the seat was supposed to be.

We paid our coaches amongst the worst in the country. We had no "training table". Tailgating was not allowed at football games. RV hired Dodge for $125,000. That was an improvement over Dickey's salary. By the time RV left our HFC was making 7 figures.

So, when RV got here, he was battling that kind of apathy. People in RV's position not only have to make the right decisions to move things forward, but they must also convince others with your vision so you can have said money to do the things you want to do. You don't have complete control and autonomy.

There was a mindset once upon a time at North Texas that tailgating at football games was a bad idea. That certainly didn't come from an athletic director along the way, right? It probably came from risk management. A university official probably said, "it's not a bad idea since nobody comes to the games anyway so let it be written...no tailgating at football games".

RV was effective at starting the ball rolling to where we are now. I am well aware he did not do this alone (thank you to Presidents and BOR members who got it right), but his biggest achievement was getting people to believe we deserved and could do better.

Before RV:

Fouts, bowels of Fouts, trough urinals (I don't care what #MeanRob thinks he knows, I had a player piss by me during a game at said trough, it did happen), concrete like football playing surface, giant crown on football field, dirty orange seats at the Super Pit, local parks!!!, uneven tennis court surfaces, and a HFC making $85,000/yr.!!!!!!!!!!!

After RV:

Apogee, green seats in the Super Pit, PEB Natatorium, tennis facility with even surfaces, Lovelace Stadium, Soccer/Track Stadium and offices, academic offices, actual athletic center with weight rooms, offices, and meeting spaces, training table, robust sports medicine, and a HFC making $2MM/year and assistants making enough to not HAVE to make a change every year.

The guy is not a God but is a slam dunk for HOF for good reason.

Edited July 8, 2022 by GreenFlag

Mo Green · July 8, 2022

O hell yea- let's put him next to D Dickey and see how much electricity we can generate compared to the BIG FANS!

Edited July 10, 2022 by Coach Andy Mac

DentonLurker · July 9, 2022

2 hours ago, GreenFlag said:

When RV got here, we only "participated" at the FBS level in athletics. We were battling it out with ULM for least resources of all Division 1 programs that had a football program. Think about that. We were amongst the bottom of the newly formed and poor Sun Belt Conference.

Our football team played in debatably the worst stadium with the worst field in all of FBS. Our "athletic center" (coaches offices, weight room, etc.) were in the bowels of said stadium. The field had a track around it, so it was also the track and field program headquarters. Our soccer team played their home games at a local park. It might have been at the same local park our softball team played, or maybe they played at the intramural fields? I think the volleyball team played at the old Snake Pit, my apologies to Pits. Swimming and Diving? The old PEB swimming pool. Our tennis team played on the courts next to the Super Pit complete with 1" cracks in the surface. I have no idea where or how the golf team practiced or worked out. The Super Pit, which was the crown jewel of UNT facilities, had bright orange fabric seats that were filthy. As in every single seat had a stain in a color other than the seat was supposed to be.

We paid our coaches amongst the worst in the country. We had no "training table". Tailgating was not allowed at football games. RV hired Dodge for $125,000. That was an improvement over Dickey's salary. By the time RV left our HFC was making 7 figures.

So, when RV got here, he was battling that kind of apathy. People in RV's position not only have to make the right decisions to move things forward, but they must also convince others with your vision so you can have said money to do the things you want to do. You don't have complete control and autonomy.

There was a mindset once upon a time at North Texas that tailgating at football games was a bad idea. That certainly didn't come from an athletic director along the way, right? It probably came from risk management. A university official probably said, "it's not a bad idea since nobody comes to the games anyway so let it be written...no tailgating at football games".

RV was effective at starting the ball rolling to where we are now. I am well aware he did not do this alone (thank you to Presidents and BOR members who got it right), but his biggest achievement was getting people to believe we deserved and could do better.

Before RV:

Fouts, bowels of Fouts, trough urinals (I don't care what #MeanRob thinks he knows, I had a player piss by me during a game at said trough, it did happen), concrete like football playing surface, giant crown on football field, dirty orange seats at the Super Pit, local parks!!!, uneven tennis court surfaces, and a HFC making $85,000/yr.!!!!!!!!!!!

After RV:

Apogee, green seats in the Super Pit, PEB Natatorium, tennis facility with even surfaces, Lovelace Stadium, Soccer/Track Stadium and offices, academic offices, actual athletic center with weight rooms, offices, and meeting spaces, training table, robust sports medicine, and a HFC making $2MM/year and assistants making enough to not HAVE to make a change every year.

The guy is not a God but is a slam dunk for HOF for good reason.

Agreed! The resources and support given to athletics by university leadership post-RV is night and day. I’ll also add that many of the names funding the big projects post-RV are donors identified and cultivated during RV’s tenure.

meanrob · July 9, 2022

1 hour ago, DentonLurker said:

Agreed! The resources and support given to athletics by university leadership post-RV is night and day. I’ll also add that many of the names funding the big projects post-RV are donors identified and cultivated during RV’s tenure.

You know there’s this thing called the student athletics fee that didn’t hurt either

peanuts104 · July 9, 2022

On 3/30/2022 at 10:27 PM, Jonnyeagle said:

In some ways he is responsible for us getting into AAC

Absolutely ****ing not. No. **** RV

97and03 · July 9, 2022

5 hours ago, meanrob said:

You know there’s this thing called the student athletics fee that didn’t hurt either

Well I can’t speak to Flyer’s experience but RV was instrumental in getting the first one passed.

DentonLurker · July 9, 2022

10 hours ago, meanrob said:

You know there’s this thing called the student athletics fee that didn’t hurt either

I don’t really understand the point you’re trying to make?

greenminer · July 9, 2022

20 hours ago, GreenFlag said:

When RV got here, we only "participated" at the FBS level in athletics. We were battling it out with ULM for least resources of all Division 1 programs that had a football program. Think about that. We were amongst the bottom of the newly formed and poor Sun Belt Conference.

Our football team played in debatably the worst stadium with the worst field in all of FBS. Our "athletic center" (coaches offices, weight room, etc.) were in the bowels of said stadium. The field had a track around it, so it was also the track and field program headquarters. Our soccer team played their home games at a local park. It might have been at the same local park our softball team played, or maybe they played at the intramural fields? I think the volleyball team played at the old Snake Pit, my apologies to Pits. Swimming and Diving? The old PEB swimming pool. Our tennis team played on the courts next to the Super Pit complete with 1" cracks in the surface. I have no idea where or how the golf team practiced or worked out. The Super Pit, which was the crown jewel of UNT facilities, had bright orange fabric seats that were filthy. As in every single seat had a stain in a color other than the seat was supposed to be.

We paid our coaches amongst the worst in the country. We had no "training table". Tailgating was not allowed at football games. RV hired Dodge for $125,000. That was an improvement over Dickey's salary. By the time RV left our HFC was making 7 figures.

So, when RV got here, he was battling that kind of apathy. People in RV's position not only have to make the right decisions to move things forward, but they must also convince others with your vision so you can have said money to do the things you want to do. You don't have complete control and autonomy.

There was a mindset once upon a time at North Texas that tailgating at football games was a bad idea. That certainly didn't come from an athletic director along the way, right? It probably came from risk management. A university official probably said, "it's not a bad idea since nobody comes to the games anyway so let it be written...no tailgating at football games".

RV was effective at starting the ball rolling to where we are now. I am well aware he did not do this alone (thank you to Presidents and BOR members who got it right), but his biggest achievement was getting people to believe we deserved and could do better.

Before RV:

Fouts, bowels of Fouts, trough urinals (I don't care what #MeanRob thinks he knows, I had a player piss by me during a game at said trough, it did happen), concrete like football playing surface, giant crown on football field, dirty orange seats at the Super Pit, local parks!!!, uneven tennis court surfaces, and a HFC making $85,000/yr.!!!!!!!!!!!

After RV:

Apogee, green seats in the Super Pit, PEB Natatorium, tennis facility with even surfaces, Lovelace Stadium, Soccer/Track Stadium and offices, academic offices, actual athletic center with weight rooms, offices, and meeting spaces, training table, robust sports medicine, and a HFC making $2MM/year and assistants making enough to not HAVE to make a change every year.

The guy is not a God but is a slam dunk for HOF for good reason.

Just a long-winded way of saying the same ol' argument for RV: "We were absolutely pathetic before, then he came around and we were less pathetic. Thanks RV".

I can be grateful for someone's time serving UNT and, at the same time, not want them in the HOF. Just because an AD, student-athlete, or staff is around when we were on an upward trajectory doesn't qualify them for HOF honors.

People need to think higher. Not necessarily Big-Joe-Green and Brandon-Booger-Kennedy higher, but neither someone who got the reviews he did at the end of his tenure (remember that 3rd party evaluation? it was embarrassing!), or needed a GMG.com poster to start a grass-roots campaign to get a good voter turnout for the fee increase. Nor someone that inspired a FIRE RV flier at the end of his tenure. Calling this is a slam-dunk HOF vote means you and I have a different definition of slam dunk.

meanrob · July 9, 2022

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

Just a long-winded way of saying the same ol' argument for RV: "We were absolutely pathetic before, then he came around and we were less pathetic. Thanks RV".

I can be grateful for someone's time serving UNT and, at the same time, not want them in the HOF. Just because an AD, student-athlete, or staff is around when we were on an upward trajectory doesn't qualify them for HOF honors.

People need to think higher. Not necessarily Big-Joe-Green and Brandon-Booger-Kennedy higher, but neither someone who got the reviews he did at the end of his tenure (remember that 3rd party evaluation? it was embarrassing!), or needed a GMG.com poster to start a grass-roots campaign to get a good voter turnout for the fee increase. Nor someone that inspired a FIRE RV flier at the end of his tenure. Calling this is a slam-dunk HOF vote means you and I have a different definition of slam dunk.

I’m in this camp.

The guy was here 15+ years and multiple people have mentioned one of his accomplishments is getting the seats changed. Not much more to say.

untphd · July 9, 2022

That, and he told me I couldn't tailgate in the parking lot when I was the only one in the parking lot.

Cr1028 · July 9, 2022

2 hours ago, meanrob said:

I’m in this camp.

The guy was here 15+ years and multiple people have mentioned one of his accomplishments is getting the seats changed. Not much more to say.

I don’t know your age but if you walked around campus as a student both before RV and after, you’d have noticed a night and day difference in the amount of Mean Green attire being worn vs the Texas/OU/Aggie gear that was commonplace for our little commuter school prior to his arrival.

Marty · July 10, 2022

I thought Vic Trilli was the one behind getting the orange seats changed in the Super Pit.

greenminer · July 10, 2022

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

I don’t know your age but if you walked around campus as a student both before RV and after, you’d have noticed a night and day difference in the amount of Mean Green attire being worn vs the Texas/OU/Aggie gear that was commonplace for our little commuter school prior to his arrival.

we are still having discussions about how to engage more students and rid ourselves of chronic apathy.

I came to Denton in 1999 and saw everything RV "did". As far as I can tell, the post above is just another really-pathetic to not-as-pathetic angle.

EDIT FOR FUN: Would a "slam dunk" vote for HOF have a parody Twitter, made simply to mock how terrible he was?

Edited July 10, 2022 by greenminer

greenminer · July 10, 2022

one way to qualify HOF worthiness, IMO, is to swap the said person with anyone else and try to imagine if they would do better, worse, or same.

Would a different RB have been able to replicate Ja-Mo's freshman year? Likely not.
Would a different DT have been able to rise to the level of Booger's play? Likely not.
Would a different person in charge have come to Denton and said, "I know what this place needs - TAILGATING and NEW CHAIRS." - probably.

...guys I got to shake RV's hand. Thank him for his efforts. Super swell guy. But HOF worthy? I'm just not interested in making that leap.

GreenFlag · July 10, 2022

45 minutes ago, greenminer said:

one way to qualify HOF worthiness, IMO, is to swap the said person with anyone else and try to imagine if they would do better, worse, or same.

Would a different RB have been able to replicate Ja-Mo's freshman year? Likely not.
Would a different DT have been able to rise to the level of Booger's play? Likely not.
Would a different person in charge have come to Denton and said, "I know what this place needs - TAILGATING and NEW CHAIRS." - probably.

...guys I got to shake RV's hand. Thank him for his efforts. Super swell guy. But HOF worthy? I'm just not interested in making that leap.

Ok, let's swap RV for every other AD we have had in school history. Boom! HOF worthy. Thanks for the layup.

greenminer · July 10, 2022

3 minutes ago, GreenFlag said:

Ok, let's swap RV for every other AD we have had in school history. Boom! HOF worthy. Thanks for the layup.

swing and miss. Not sure if you're reading the entire thread. It's been said multiple times: using our past as a baseline just does not work for a HOF standard.

Edited July 10, 2022 by greenminer

Cr1028 · July 10, 2022

14 minutes ago, greenminer said:

swing and miss. Not sure if you're reading the entire thread. It's been said multiple times: using our past as a baseline just does not work for a HOF standard.

Then you’ll have to start a new hall of fame because we have several in there already that don’t fit your criteria.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Cr1028

GreenFlag · July 10, 2022

19 minutes ago, greenminer said:

swing and miss. Not sure if you're reading the entire thread. It's been said multiple times: using our past as a baseline just does not work for a HOF standard.

I don't care if it has been said multiple times, it wasn't my point. My point was that he moved the needle significantly in the right direction by any standard.

Edited July 10, 2022 by GreenFlag

Cr1028 · July 10, 2022

On 7/9/2022 at 7:52 PM, greenminer said:

we are still having discussions about how to engage more students and rid ourselves of chronic apathy.

I came to Denton in 1999 and saw everything RV "did". As far as I can tell, the post above is just another really-pathetic to not-as-pathetic angle.

We came to Denton at the exact same time and I almost never saw North Texas gear in class. I didn’t see Fouts once between Fall 1999 and Spring 2001. I didn’t even know where it was. The one thing I heard about football the entire time I was there was that we beat Tech and I overheard someone talking about it in the hall. I went to one game during that span and that was in Waco against Baylor because one of my high school teammates played for the Bears. When I returned to campus in Fall 2005 after a 4 year hiatus the appearance of UNT apparel in class was night and day. I’m sure a lot of that was the bowl run but RV doing his tshirt swaps and tshirt giveaways at the games had to have helped a lot too.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Cr1028
Thanks Adler

greenminer · July 10, 2022

14 minutes ago, GreenFlag said:

I don't care if it has been said multiple times, it wasn't my point. My point was that he moved the needle significantly in the right direction by any standard.

How about a 3rd party standard? Because we had one done, and it was awful.

21 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Then you’ll have to start a new hall of fame because we have several in there already that don’t fit your criteria.

not at all.

On 4/1/2022 at 12:35 PM, greenminer said:

can we up the bar, or do we gotta let more people in because we gotta stick with that previous low bar?

On 4/1/2022 at 7:42 PM, greenminer said:

I can honor previous inductees, acknowledge that we are spending much more money than previous generations, and adjust expectations accordingly. we can carry on and recalibrate our expectations. No need to dissolve.

I'll allow it.

greenminer · July 10, 2022

Unlike a lot of you, apparently, I cannot get past that 3rd party evaluation at the end of his tenure. I cannot discredit Flyer's grassroots campaign. I think it - not RV - is the reason the vote passed. And the worst statistic of all is the combined record of all his hires in the major sports.

Did the needle move while he was here? Yep! But not a lot, and certainly not thanks to any genius RV move. IMO, you could have placed anyone - including past pro-athletics ADs - into his position at the same time and they would have done at least as well...probably better.

We will agree to disagree. Thanks for reading.