DRC breaking news -- UNT set to promote Jim Gush to co-defensive coordinator

NT80 · March 2, 2022

2 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

Titanic, Hindenburg, Chernobyl. Any horrendous disaster fits here IMO. Take your pick

Yes, we already know how this is going to end. Bad for the fans, bad for the program; now behind in a restart.

meangreen11 · March 2, 2022

1 minute ago, NT80 said:

Yes, we already know how this is going to end. Bad for the fans, bad for the program; now behind in a restart.

I was told the only reason Littrell was still around was the timing. He was set to get fired after the UTSA and he pulled a rabbit out of his hat and beat a ranked team at home.

The problem, it seems for UNT in these types of situations is our history. Littrell for all his faults has the second best winning percentage next to only the great HOF UNT coach Hayden Fry. And yes coming back from 1-6 is a respectable feat for any coach at any level, even if it was against the conference bottom feeders.

Lastly, the timing really hurt. This is partially Wren's fault because of his desire to evaluate jobs at the end of the season. BTW, that play from the AD playbook is dated now as we saw VA. Tech fire Fuente BEFORE he could win more games and potentially get bowl eligible. But back to the timing, it is very hard to go out an hire a staff of good assistants off cycle. In other words, assistants typically sign one year renewable contracts and once they are locked into that they are typically not willing to make a move. Once we made the determination to keep Seth through the bowl it basically locked us out of the hiring, or meant we would be getting the leftover assistant pool candidates.

I think many agree with you and would like to have seen a change but I also think you need to be honest that it was not as black and white a decision as you try to portray it. I think we can all agree that Littrell is on a very short leash heading into this season. GMG

Cr1028 · March 2, 2022

16 minutes ago, meangreen11 said:

This is partially Wren's fault because of his desire to evaluate jobs at the end of the season. BTW, that play from the AD playbook is dated now as we saw VA. Tech fire Fuente BEFORE he could win more games and potentially get bowl eligible.

RV was big on firing midseason too.

untjim1995 · March 2, 2022

It takes money to pay a coach's buyout and pay for a new coach. When one of your biggest moneyed donors loves the head coach like a son, you have to recognize that $$$ from a known source at UNT will always trump any opportunity costs/revenues. IOW, paying $2.6 million just to get rid of SL is a lot for a program like ours, but especially when his buddy is a major bank roller of the program. Once he got to 4 wins, the selling of him coming back was set in stone. Getting a 5th win was just gravy, and that win over UTSA probably gave him more leeway to get an extension, which he blew against Miami (OH) in the made-up Bowl in Frisco.

But again, Phil Bennett's defensive scheme and the talent that we have are good enough to help us duplicate the last season win total, as well as our running game. Getting to 7 wins is SL's goal--he gets an extension of at least 3 more years added to his contract. And that schedule he gets in his make-it-or-break-it year couldn't be more ideal for him to achieve that goal.

NT80 · March 2, 2022

57 minutes ago, meangreen11 said:

I was told the only reason Littrell was still around was the timing. He was set to get fired after the UTSA and he pulled a rabbit out of his hat and beat a ranked team at home.

The problem, it seems for UNT in these types of situations is our history. Littrell for all his faults has the second best winning percentage next to only the great HOF UNT coach Hayden Fry. And yes coming back from 1-6 is a respectable feat for any coach at any level, even if it was against the conference bottom feeders.

Lastly, the timing really hurt. This is partially Wren's fault because of his desire to evaluate jobs at the end of the season. BTW, that play from the AD playbook is dated now as we saw VA. Tech fire Fuente BEFORE he could win more games and potentially get bowl eligible. But back to the timing, it is very hard to go out an hire a staff of good assistants off cycle. In other words, assistants typically sign one year renewable contracts and once they are locked into that they are typically not willing to make a move. Once we made the determination to keep Seth through the bowl it basically locked us out of the hiring, or meant we would be getting the leftover assistant pool candidates.

I think many agree with you and would like to have seen a change but I also think you need to be honest that it was not as black and white a decision as you try to portray it. I think we can all agree that Littrell is on a very short leash heading into this season. GMG

Good post. If the above timing is true, it really shows how UTSA actually messed us over in the long run by losing to us, ensuring Littrell was staying.

If SL had the program more consistent we wouldn't be having these discussions. For an offensive-minded coach he has so many issues with offensive scheme and difficulty finding another steady QB. Sometimes in coaching cycles it's just time for a change. Wren needs to find our football McCasland!

MeanGreenTexan · March 2, 2022

1 hour ago, meangreen11 said:

I was told the only reason Littrell was still around was the timing. He was set to get fired after the UTSA and he pulled a rabbit out of his hat and beat a ranked team at home.

The problem, it seems for UNT in these types of situations is our history. Littrell for all his faults has the second best winning percentage next to only the great HOF UNT coach Hayden Fry. And yes coming back from 1-6 is a respectable feat for any coach at any level, even if it was against the conference bottom feeders.

Lastly, the timing really hurt. This is partially Wren's fault because of his desire to evaluate jobs at the end of the season. BTW, that play from the AD playbook is dated now as we saw VA. Tech fire Fuente BEFORE he could win more games and potentially get bowl eligible. But back to the timing, it is very hard to go out an hire a staff of good assistants off cycle. In other words, assistants typically sign one year renewable contracts and once they are locked into that they are typically not willing to make a move. Once we made the determination to keep Seth through the bowl it basically locked us out of the hiring, or meant we would be getting the leftover assistant pool candidates.

I think many agree with you and would like to have seen a change but I also think you need to be honest that it was not as black and white a decision as you try to portray it. I think we can all agree that Littrell is on a very short leash heading into this season. GMG

This sounds entirely plausible, but speculative.

I can't imagine being in Wren's shoes on November 27th. That morning, I'm feeling pretty confident that after today's game, I'll have a green light from decision makers to buy out the contract and move on with a hire I make. I've likely already reached out to a few prospective coaches to get on their radar.
Then the improbable happens, and those same decision makers are now drunk on the Green Koolaid like just about everyone else, thinking we've "turned the corner" (and Wren may have been as well?).
Even if Baker could see a big picture at the time, convincing everyone else, including not-only that particular family you mention, but also the President who took 100% of the credit for hiring him when times were good, was going to be hard.

Who knows how much effort Baker put into making a move after UTSA, if he did at all? Maybe he tried hard, but couldn't convince them to do it before the Bowl game... which then tied his hands with availability.

Sadly, all water under the bridge now and we're stuck with a HC whose demeanor has totally changed over the past few years & cannot motivate his team at all. Instead, he's relying on a 66-year-old, formerly-retired coordinator to keep him afloat. And apparently, looking at this article, Littrell is ALL THE WAY IN on Bennett, while Bennett has located the exit and is heading that way.

MGNation92 · March 2, 2022

5 hours ago, 97and03 said:

On a completely unrelated note, can Phil’s daughter coach QBs?

Well she was a water girl for the 2012 Baylor Bears, that's a WR coach position at minimum for Seth

El Paso Eagle · March 2, 2022

3 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

But again, Phil Bennett's defensive scheme and the talent that we have are good enough to help us duplicate the last season win total, as well as our running game. Getting to 7 wins is SL's goal--he gets an extension of at least 3 more years added to his contract. And that schedule he gets in his make-it-or-break-it year couldn't be more ideal for him to achieve that goal.

Take nothing away from the D's improvement this past season but the standard it was measured against was low. Let's see what happens this year.

MeanGreenTexan · March 2, 2022

32 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Take nothing away from the D's improvement this past season but the standard it was measured against was low. Let's see what happens this year.

Even though the bar was very low from Bowen's disaster, they still only allowed 27.5 PPG, which is actually very good.

The issue is: Can we keep that up with losing Novil, both Murphys, TDavis, Sanders, & Colvin? Arguably 6 of the best 7 defensive starters (with KDavis mixed in there somewhere)?

Edited March 2, 2022 by MeanGreenTexan

Rudy · March 2, 2022

5 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I could not agree more.

We're into March now and we're still sitting on a handful of scholarships for transfers after a very underwhelming signing day.
Our only additions since then? 2 Longsnappers. Let me repeat: FREAKING 2 LONGSNAPPERS!!!

Should tell you that they'll be getting a lot of action next season.

Seth should have been let go at 1-6.