Super Pit Question

[UNTLifer]

6 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

Name me a North Texas athletics program that is net positive in cash flow?  I will wait.

I don't get this argument.  We can't manage a budget so throw another stick on the fire?

[Clinetort]

33 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I don't get this argument.  We can't manage a budget so throw another stick on the fire?

Not the point.  We have a 40 million dollar budget.  There is money for baseball, the current AD would rather focus on building facilities that are not needed, rather than adding a program that we could be nationally competitive within five years.  You can't buy that type of exposure.  We need to focus on winning.  We can win in Baseball. 

[UNTLifer]

What facilities are they trying to build that are not needed?  Also, the money to build facilities is not in that $40 million operational budget. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by UNTLifer

[wardly]

35 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

Not the point.  We have a 40 million dollar budget.  There is money for baseball, the current AD would rather focus on building facilities that are not needed, rather than adding a program that we could be nationally competitive within five years.  You can't buy that type of exposure.  We need to focus on winning.  We can win in Baseball. 

Nationally competitive in 5 years. Right.

[Clinetort]

9 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

What facilities are they trying to build that are not needed?  Also, the money to build facilities is not in that $40 million operational budget. 

WE. DO. NOT. NEED. A. NEW. BASKETBALL. ARENA

[Censored by Laurie]

1 hour ago, Clinetort said:

WE. DO. NOT. NEED. A. NEW. BASKETBALL. ARENA

I get you...but we probably do. 

look, The Drum in Austin is awesome. It's also dated and UT is replacing it...at least as a primary hoops arena. 

if basketball continues on this arc and we can get UNT mentioned in breath with St. Mary's, Davidson, Wichita State, Murray State, et al on a consistent basis, then UNT basketball deserves a 8000 person fieldhouse-style basketball only venue. Wanna do a throw-back game in the Pit? dope, let's. 

nostalgia is not a reason to withstand growth and change. 

[wardly]

The new Texas basketball arena, if memory serves, was privately funded, which is a lot of zeros. Does any one have an idea what the cost would be to upgrade the Super Pitt and would it be funded by the university since its not a designated athletic facility or require donor financing ?

[GMG_Dallas]

5 hours ago, keith said:

Just think of all the fun we are missing out on predicting the attendance for home baseball games.

Think of the fun we could have in 10 years arguing about whether to build a new and smaller stadium because we can't fill the one we have and it would look better on TV if we had a smaller one that was full OR to start up the new lacrosse or hockey program because having a top lacrosse/hockey program would FOR SURE put us on the map.

[GMG_Dallas]

3 hours ago, Clinetort said:

Not the point.  We have a 40 million dollar budget.  There is money for baseball, the current AD would rather focus on building facilities that are not needed, rather than adding a program that we could be nationally competitive within five years.  You can't buy that type of exposure.  We need to focus on winning.  We can win in Baseball. 

I feel like we'd be better off not spreading our money too thin until we can be more consistently successful in football and/or the basketballs. If we can dump a bit more money in basketball and keep on this trajectory, baseball may find itself a bit more easily funded in 5 years if the basketball program can bring us more revenue. I'm not saying it won't still be at a deficit but maybe it'll be less of a deficit. I don't like the idea of having every program possible just 'cause without being successful in what we already have first. 

[greenminer]

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

nostalgia is not a reason to withstand growth and change. 

I'm not getting a nostalgia vibe from him.  I'm getting a "baseball is awesome and give me baseball" vibe from him.

[Clinetort]

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I get you...but we probably do. 

look, The Drum in Austin is awesome. It's also dated and UT is replacing it...at least as a primary hoops arena. 

if basketball continues on this arc and we can get UNT mentioned in breath with St. Mary's, Davidson, Wichita State, Murray State, et al on a consistent basis, then UNT basketball deserves a 8000 person fieldhouse-style basketball only venue. Wanna do a throw-back game in the Pit? dope, let's. 

nostalgia is not a reason to withstand growth and change. 

Have you seen the shit holes that St. Mary's and Davidson play in?  Classic

[GMG_Dallas]

15 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

Have you seen the shit holes that St. Mary's and Davidson play in?  Classic

Both schools have arenas big enough to hold their entire student population.

[Snowy]

This is a weird baseball vs basketball arena conversation. But, I'll weigh in regardless...

I would imagine that a basketball arena and starting a baseball program are funded in very different ways. Basketball arena is likely to be funded partially by donors, partially by bonds, and partially by sponsor naming rights. A baseball program is funded by.... Probably not by debt... Therefore, I would think that if donors wanted to step up to create a baseball program, the Athletic Department is probably waiting for that to happen. My guess is it hasn't happened, and probably won't happen.

[Clinetort]

30 minutes ago, Snowy said:

This is a weird baseball vs basketball arena conversation. But, I'll weigh in regardless...

I would imagine that a basketball arena and starting a baseball program are funded in very different ways. Basketball arena is likely to be funded partially by donors, partially by bonds, and partially by sponsor naming rights. A baseball program is funded by.... Probably not by debt... Therefore, I would think that if donors wanted to step up to create a baseball program, the Athletic Department is probably waiting for that to happen. My guess is it hasn't happened, and probably won't happen.

Actually, you are incorrect.  A stadium for baseball could be bonded out just like a basketball arena.  Donors and sponsorships would also be needed for both.

You're also wrong about donors not stepping up.  The Lovelace family graciously offered the lead donation for a baseball program.  This gift was redirected to the indoor practice facility when Wren took over.  

Edited March 2, 2022 by Clinetort

[Snowy]

Uh, yes, a Baseball stadium could be financed via debt, but that is just a portion of the overall cost for running a baseball program on a yearly basis. The rest of the funding wouldn't appear out of thin air unfortunately. J'Powell is not an alum.

My point is that they're not mutually exclusive... They are going to have very different avenues of funding, and if the donors step up in the right way, both could be done concurrently. But I just don't see that as likely to happen.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Snowy

[Clinetort]

1 minute ago, Snowy said:

Uh, yes, a Baseball stadium could be financed via debt, but that is just a portion of the overall cost for running a baseball stadium on a yearly basis. The rest of the funding wouldn't appear out of thin air unfortunately. J'Powell is not an alum.

Well of course.  But anything that is built, including a new basketball arena, will add a line item to the budget.  Not a mystery.  

[UNTLifer]

19 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

Actually, you are incorrect.  A stadium for baseball could be bonded out just like a basketball arena.  Donors and sponsorships would also be needed for both.

You're also wrong about donors not stepping up.  The Lovelace family graciously offered the lead donation for a baseball program.  This gift was redirected to the indoor practice facility when Wren took over.  

The IPF is a facility that can be used by multiple sports and was needed for current programs to stay competitive.  The issues with the infrastructure of the Super Pit have been reviewed over and over so I won't go in to that again, but a new facility is needed and would actually also be utilized by WBB and the volleyball program.

Hockey and lacrosse sound great but what schools in our region sponsor those sports on a D1 level?  Exactly.

A baseball stadium serves baseball only and while I dearly want a program at North Texas and believe we can be successful rather quickly is managed correctly, I also realize we need to upgrade the underfunded programs first.  Once those facilities are where they need to be, then we can look at adding.

Baseball, if done right and marketed correctly, could be a huge draw in this area considering TCU, UTA and DBU are the big three programs in the Metroplex.  My issue is marketing it correctly.  We finally figured out how to market our basketball program this year for the LAST HOME GAME, which is a failure in the grand scheme of things.  A proactive marketing program would have started building the excitement immediately after the loss to Villanova last year.  It shouldn't be difficult with proper planning and foresight.  Finally realizing you missed the boat and pulling out all the stops four months into the season and for the last home game is reactionary.  We need to be proactive and visionary in our planning, something North Texas has never been good at.

Baseball, if done correctly, could easily draw 4,000 fans a game and be very successful.  NCAA baseball is becoming more popular year after year and is no longer an afterthought.  My desire is to see all of our programs supported as they should be and not on a shoestring budget.  A measured approach is the best although it doesn't satisfy those with an immediate gratification frame of mind.

[Clinetort]

23 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

The IPF is a facility that can be used by multiple sports and was needed for current programs to stay competitive.  The issues with the infrastructure of the Super Pit have been reviewed over and over so I won't go in to that again, but a new facility is needed and would actually also be utilized by WBB and the volleyball program.

Hockey and lacrosse sound great but what schools in our region sponsor those sports on a D1 level?  Exactly.

A baseball stadium serves baseball only and while I dearly want a program at North Texas and believe we can be successful rather quickly is managed correctly, I also realize we need to upgrade the underfunded programs first.  Once those facilities are where they need to be, then we can look at adding.

Baseball, if done right and marketed correctly, could be a huge draw in this area considering TCU, UTA and DBU are the big three programs in the Metroplex.  My issue is marketing it correctly.  We finally figured out how to market our basketball program this year for the LAST HOME GAME, which is a failure in the grand scheme of things.  A proactive marketing program would have started building the excitement immediately after the loss to Villanova last year.  It shouldn't be difficult with proper planning and foresight.  Finally realizing you missed the boat and pulling out all the stops four months into the season and for the last home game is reactionary.  We need to be proactive and visionary in our planning, something North Texas has never been good at.

Baseball, if done correctly, could easily draw 4,000 fans a game and be very successful.  NCAA baseball is becoming more popular year after year and is no longer an afterthought.  My desire is to see all of our programs supported as they should be and not on a shoestring budget.  A measured approach is the best although it doesn't satisfy those with an immediate gratification frame of mind.

Immediate gratification?  Are you serious?  Baseball was dropped in 1988.  Every AD that has come along since that time has promised baseball.  I for one, am tired of being patted on my head and told to wait.  It's time for baseball, and I agree that if marketed correctly the sport will add value to the department and University.  

To this point I have agreed with all the moves made facilities wise by the athletic department (including moving forward with the indoor practice facility rather than adding baseball).  That ends for me if they try to build an unnecessary arena for the sake of padding the AD's resume.  Baseball should come next.  

I am a graduate of the great University of North Texas.  I am a stakeholder.  Wren and his deputies will be here for a short time.  It's well past time for UNT baseball fans to rise up and be heard.  

[UNTLifer]

23 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

That ends for me if they try to build an unnecessary arena for the sake of padding the AD's resume.  Baseball should come next.   

An unnecessary arena for the sake of padding his resume?  Really?  Again, I ask, are you aware of the infrastructure issues of the Super Pit?  An outside firm was hired to assess the current state of our facilities, what is needed and when.  This isn't about "padding a resume" but about doing what is needed and looking at the big picture.

[NT80]

10 hours ago, wardly said:

 Very few programs make money in baseball especially if they must build a venue.  .... She also wanted UNT to build a $20 million dollar baseball park and fund the annual cost of scholarships, coaches, administration, travel,etc., with a magic wand. I do think small on baseball, especially when I consider the small attendance and small revenue associated with the sport.

Glad you are not our AD.  I doubt NT makes money in any sport just selling basic tickets.  It's the donations, upgraded ticket-holder associated costs, media, and advertising dollars that brings in revenue.  Athletics also keeps general fans and Alumni attached to the University, which in turn is word-of-mouth marketing for the school.  NT has no real spectator sports except softball past mid-March until Fall.  Baseball is just part of a year-round Athletic program on all levels from high school thru major college (if we are one?).

[ColoradoEagle]

1 hour ago, Clinetort said:

It's well past time for UNT baseball fans to rise up and be heard.  

 

[GMG_Dallas]

1 hour ago, Clinetort said:

It's well past time for UNT baseball fans to rise up and be heard.  

I'm sure if you rise up a blank check in front of Wren you'll be heard. In the meantime, I, also as a graduate and stakeholder of the great University of North Texas,  would rather we not miss out on this basketball momentum for the sake of starting another program from scratch. I hope they add baseball eventually but not as much as I want a top 25 basketball program. We're closer to being top 25 in men's basketball than any other sport. The time is now to capitalize.

[MeanGreenHoops]

15 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I get you...but we probably do. 

look, The Drum in Austin is awesome. It's also dated and UT is replacing it...at least as a primary hoops arena. 

if basketball continues on this arc and we can get UNT mentioned in breath with St. Mary's, Davidson, Wichita State, Murray State, et al on a consistent basis, then UNT basketball deserves a 8000 person fieldhouse-style basketball only venue. Wanna do a throw-back game in the Pit? dope, let's. 

nostalgia is not a reason to withstand growth and change. 

You tried, but he really likes baseball and if he doesn't get it, he is taking his ball and going home.

On the plus side though, imagine the complaints here if we build that 6,500 seat building, and it starts selling out and there's a waiting list for season tickets, and the price goes way up.
 

[wardly]

9 hours ago, NT80 said:

Glad you are not our AD.  I doubt NT makes money in any sport just selling basic tickets.  It's the donations, upgraded ticket-holder associated costs, media, and advertising dollars that brings in revenue.  Athletics also keeps general fans and Alumni attached to the University, which in turn is word-of-mouth marketing for the school.  NT has no real spectator sports except softball past mid-March until Fall.  Baseball is just part of a year-round Athletic program on all levels from high school thru major college (if we are one?).

Glad I can't count on you to fund a new ball park and the annual operating costs. Like every one else you don't care what the cost is as long as you are not paying for it, and I don't mean just buying season tickets. Most of us [ me included] are all mouth and no money when it come to committing the amount of financial support necessary for a viable program. Those who think we can draw 4,000 fans per game have not attended a men's basketball game in the past few years that despite a great men's team average attendance is 4,000. I suggest you check out our three local programs attendance before projecting fans in the stands remembering that these schools are in Dallas, Ft. Worth, and Arlington, not isolated in Denton. Regarding being a national contender in 5 years, surely you jest. Please name me a start up program in any sport at any school that reach that height in 5 years. The only one that I can think of is Sam Houston's women's bowling team who won the NCAA national championship in that time frame with a start up program. Sports programs are just like business. What do you want, what do you need, and what are you willing to pay for, and by "you", I mean us.

[golfingomez]

12 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

The IPF is a facility that can be used by multiple sports and was needed for current programs to stay competitive.  The issues with the infrastructure of the Super Pit have been reviewed over and over so I won't go in to that again, but a new facility is needed and would actually also be utilized by WBB and the volleyball program.

Hockey and lacrosse sound great but what schools in our region sponsor those sports on a D1 level?  Exactly.

A baseball stadium serves baseball only and while I dearly want a program at North Texas and believe we can be successful rather quickly is managed correctly, I also realize we need to upgrade the underfunded programs first.  Once those facilities are where they need to be, then we can look at adding.

Baseball, if done right and marketed correctly, could be a huge draw in this area considering TCU, UTA and DBU are the big three programs in the Metroplex.  My issue is marketing it correctly.  We finally figured out how to market our basketball program this year for the LAST HOME GAME, which is a failure in the grand scheme of things.  A proactive marketing program would have started building the excitement immediately after the loss to Villanova last year.  It shouldn't be difficult with proper planning and foresight.  Finally realizing you missed the boat and pulling out all the stops four months into the season and for the last home game is reactionary.  We need to be proactive and visionary in our planning, something North Texas has never been good at.

Baseball, if done correctly, could easily draw 4,000 fans a game and be very successful.  NCAA baseball is becoming more popular year after year and is no longer an afterthought.  My desire is to see all of our programs supported as they should be and not on a shoestring budget.  A measured approach is the best although it doesn't satisfy those with an immediate gratification frame of mind.

sure... we also live in Texas... so football could easily draw 40,000 fans a game... but it's just not happening anytime soon or historically, ever, in our program.