Super Pit Question

[GMG_Dallas]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

I get your frustration that you feel like you're repeating yourself that you can't expand a basketball arena. But get my frustration in that you've provided no evidence of the benefits of building a larger facility, only a "build it and they will come" mentality. A full 6k or 7k arena looks a hell of a lot better, builds excitement due to the scarcity, and at worst, looks better with our current attendance numbers.

8,500 is "well, one day..." thinking that doesn't make sense outside of wishful thinking.

No, my frustration is that you can do both. 8500 is not an absurd size considering our school size. The thing is, you have to get it right. Can't just throw around 60 million every time. 6k is too small. It's not about what looks good on tv today, it's about what we'll likely need. 

[ColoradoEagle]

9 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

No, my frustration is that you can do both. 8500 is not an absurd size considering our school size. The thing is, you have to get it right. Can't just throw around 60 million every time. 6k is too small. It's not about what looks good on tv today, it's about what we'll likely need. 

I will conjecture it will be a long time before we would average 8500 (50 years at this rate), especially considering the caliber of schools in the 5-7k range. But I'll agree to disagree.

At least we can agree that a new arena would be amazing, and I'll be there with season tickets one way or the other.

Edited February 28, 2022 by ColoradoEagle

[meangreenfaninno]

53 minutes ago, Christopher Walker said:

Circling back around to this... two things:

1. No stage worth its salt is ever going to be big enough to hold 1200 grads plus a platform party. That's lunacy.
2. The MPAC, while certainly unique, has been falling apart and sinking for a number of years now. Besides, its only reallllly suitable for large ensemble wind, orchestral, and choral music. Anything outside of those three (read: jazz) is miserable in that space.

Respectfully disagree on the Murch.  I’ve heard some damn good jazz in there.  When you say “sinking” I am assuming you mean foundation.  DFW has tons of foundation issues so I’m sure we could hire someone to fix that with steel piers.

[GMG_Dallas]

16 minutes ago, texx2818 said:

UNT will never be UT. Just accept the facts.

I'm not saying they will be and I'm not suggesting a UT size facility. I'm just asking we have something a little better than Rice which has a capacity just below 6k. AD is proposing 6k to 7k. For y'all to understand how small 6k looks, that's about Rice. No matter how full it is, it won't look good. 

 

57 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

I will conjecture it will be a long time before we would average 8500 (50 years at this rate), especially considering the caliber of schools in the 5-7k range. But I'll agree to disagree.

At least we can agree that a new arena would be amazing, and I'll be there with season tickets one way or the other.

Deal. 

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, Christopher Walker said:

1. The MPAC, while certainly unique, has been falling apart and sinking for a number of years now. Besides, its only reallllly suitable for large ensemble wind, orchestral, and choral music. Anything outside of those three (read: jazz) is miserable in that space.

Seriously?  What is going on?  That is terrible news.

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, GMG_Dallas said:

No, my frustration is that you can do both. 8500 is not an absurd size considering our school size. The thing is, you have to get it right. Can't just throw around 60 million every time. 6k is too small. It's not about what looks good on tv today, it's about what we'll likely need. 

I agree.  I firmly believe that the numbers being talked about are too small.

The argument that it would look bad on television if not full, well I remember watching the CBI and 65% capacity looked just fine on television.  We have to get this right and with the growth projections of the university and the area, 6k to 7K is way to small.  Build it with 8,500 seats minimum plus suites and amenities. 

[Jonnyeagle]

8 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I agree.  I firmly believe that the numbers being talked about are too small.

The argument that it would look bad on television if not full, well I remember watching the CBI and 65% capacity looked just fine on television.  We have to get this right and with the growth projections of the university and the area, 6k to 7K is way to small.  Build it with 8,500 seats minimum plus suites and amenities. 

You also have to keep in mind that we have a lot of floor seats now as well. 

[NT80]

6 hours ago, wardly said:

The last thing that an historically underfunded athletic department needs is a non revenue producing sport with a one to two million dollar annual deficit [ check Texas Tech] that would require a capital expenditure approaching twenty million dollars for a few hundred or so fans. What's wrong with this picture?

So, softball is ok, but not baseball?  We are more funded now than ever.  How do so many CUSA/SBC programs with lower budgets offer it but we can't?

[ColoradoEagle]

3 minutes ago, NT80 said:

So, softball is ok, but not baseball?  We are more funded now than ever.  How do so many CUSA/SBC programs with lower budgets offer it but we can't?

How many CUSA/SBC schools field consistent top 50 teams in basketball and football?

[greenminer]

5 hours ago, texx2818 said:

UNT will never be UT. Just accept the facts.

No one suggested that.

[Censored by Laurie]

Top 25
1. 6,000
2. 14,644
3. 10,284
4. 9,314
5. 9,121
6. 16,300
7. 23,500
8. 14,804
9. 12,500
10. 17,320
11. 6,501
12. 15,300
13. 21,678
14. 7,100
15. 19,200
16. 10,258
17. 13,800
18. 10,167
19. 3,500
20. 15,544
21. 16,734   edit: 10,000-15,000
22. 8,602
23. 18,809
24. 15,400
25. 15,316

others receiving votes
- 12,820
- 5,223
- 8,745
- 6,500
- 9,149
- 13,215
- 14,759
- 12,414
- 14,267
- 17,341
- 9,797 
- 3,228
- 7,018

we currently have the 25th largest arena of he top 38 programs in the country. 

we've hit 75% capacity, what, 5 times in the last decade? wonder how many sell-outs those other 37 programs have had. 

if (and I'm still in the if-camp) the Pit needs to be replaced as our primary basketball arena I hope we go 7500-8500 capacity. I hope we "out-grow" that capacity. imagine, a secondary ticket market for a UNT basketball game...a top 25-50 team should have a scarce ticket...people should miss out on a sold-out game...

and ideally...should we hit the heights we all hope and maintain those heights, then let's start scheduling a few non-com home games at The Star or some-such...get the suburb alum involved in their area. 

edit: just learned The Drum is going away in Austin...and UT is going smaller.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Censored by Laurie

[wardly]

13 hours ago, NT80 said:

So, softball is ok, but not baseball?  We are more funded now than ever.  How do so many CUSA/SBC programs with lower budgets offer it but we can't?

Well they already have a venue to play in. They may be older, but are serviceable. Also, just because we are more funded now that ever doesn't mean we have millions of dollars to piss off on a non revenue producing sport. Have some one write the check for a stadium and then we can talk about it. The softball stadium our women play is was originally the high school facility that we purchased. If we are going to invest is a new stadium I would recommend a new women's softball park to support a very good program. The problem with those pushing for a baseball program is a champagne taste with a beer pocketbook. Bottom line is that we can't afford it.

[Clinetort]

57 minutes ago, wardly said:

Well they already have a venue to play in. They may be older, but are serviceable. Also, just because we are more funded now that ever doesn't mean we have millions of dollars to piss off on a non revenue producing sport. Have some one write the check for a stadium and then we can talk about it. The softball stadium our women play is was originally the high school facility that we purchased. If we are going to invest is a new stadium I would recommend a new women's softball park to support a very good program. The problem with those pushing for a baseball program is a champagne taste with a beer pocketbook. Bottom line is that we can't afford it.

So basically what you're saying is that every division one program in the country can afford baseball, with the exception of North Texas?  The solution is to build a top notch basketball practice facility (20 million) and put the rest of the basketball facility allotment (roughly 60 million) towards a baseball program.  

[NT80]

1 hour ago, wardly said:

Well they already have a venue to play in. They may be older, but are serviceable. Also, just because we are more funded now that ever doesn't mean we have millions of dollars to piss off on a non revenue producing sport. Have some one write the check for a stadium and then we can talk about it. The softball stadium our women play is was originally the high school facility that we purchased. If we are going to invest is a new stadium I would recommend a new women's softball park to support a very good program. The problem with those pushing for a baseball program is a champagne taste with a beer pocketbook. Bottom line is that we can't afford it.

Think small, be small.  Baseball can be a revenue sport, more so than softball.  Baseball is only 12 scholarships.  Do we really need cross country?

[greenminer]

12 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Think small, be small.  Baseball can be a revenue sport, more so than softball.  Baseball is only 12 scholarships.  Do we really need cross country?

When we say revenue sport, it refers to MBB, FB, and possibly WBB.

Nothing else generates revenue.  My understanding is, it's not even close.  Even baseball.

[Big Z]

12 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Think small, be small.  Baseball can be a revenue sport, more so than softball.  Baseball is only 12 scholarships.  Do we really need cross country?

No on the cross country, we need something that draws good attendance numbers for the spring/summer like Baseball or Lacrosse.

[CMJ]

If we have track, we may as well have cross country.  Most do both and the cross country season helps the long distance guys once track season rolls around.

 

(My father was a four year letterman in both at NT in the 70s)

[Wag Tag]

Let’s say you have 10- 15 boxes. They sell for a bargain price of $25,000 a season. ( I believe SMU is $39k) You can do the math on how many GA tickets you would have to sell. I would like to see 7500, with seats all the way to the floor. GMG 

[wardly]

 Very few programs make money in baseball especially if they must build a venue.  The last 24 hours of a terminally ill persons life generates nearly 75% of their medical bill even though all involved realize ifs a wasted effort to prolong their death. I saw a women interviewed about the subject whose husband was dying and her response was that she wanted the best care available to him no matter the cost as long as she didn't have to pay for it. She also wanted UNT to build a $20 million dollar baseball park and fund the annual cost of scholarships, coaches, administration, travel,etc., with a magic wand. I do think small on baseball, especially when I consider the small attendance and small revenue associated with the sport.

[UNTLifer]

1 minute ago, wardly said:

I do think small on baseball, especially when I consider the small attendance and small revenue associated with the sport.

Times are a changin'

[keith]

Just think of all the fun we are missing out on predicting the attendance for home baseball games.

[ColoradoEagle]

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Times are a changin'

After tuning into many random baseball games by accident on ESPN+, I can confirm they're not.

[UNTLifer]

1 minute ago, ColoradoEagle said:

After tuning into many random baseball games by accident on ESPN+, I can confirm they're not.

Where was this random baseball game?  Who was playing?

[ColoradoEagle]

9 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Where was this random baseball game?  Who was playing?

Games, not game. On a random night or weekend, choose a random baseball game and the stands are going to be pretty sparse. I went to a Louisville baseball game a few years ago, and while fun, there couldn't have been more than a couple hundred people there. 

There are certainly schools that draw higher numbers, but usually they're ranked or consistent CWS contenders. In 2019, the 25th highest average baseball attendance in the country was Vanderbilt at 2,911. The average attendance for the four schools in the new AAC that made the top 50 attendance was 2,342. 

Any money put into baseball would be better served with football/basketball. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by ColoradoEagle

[Clinetort]

1 hour ago, ColoradoEagle said:

Games, not game. On a random night or weekend, choose a random baseball game and the stands are going to be pretty sparse. I went to a Louisville baseball game a few years ago, and while fun, there couldn't have been more than a couple hundred people there. 

There are certainly schools that draw higher numbers, but usually they're ranked or consistent CWS contenders. In 2019, the 25th highest average baseball attendance in the country was Vanderbilt at 2,911. The average attendance for the four schools in the new AAC that made the top 50 attendance was 2,342. 

Any money put into baseball would be better served with football/basketball. 

Name me a North Texas athletics program that is net positive in cash flow?  I will wait.