ESPN Mid-Major Rankings

[golfingomez]

UNT still at #2

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33353797/kc-mid-major-top-10-welcomes-back-belmont-plus-10-pivotal-mid-major-college-basketball-games

[flyonthewall]

ok.  question?  Why is Saint Mary's a "mid major" and Gonzaga is not?  Playing in the same conference.  You either are or you aren't?

[MeanGreenTexan]

23 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

ok.  question?  Why is Saint Mary's a "mid major" and Gonzaga is not?  Playing in the same conference.  You either are or you aren't?

I thought it was because they excluded schools that are legitimately ranked in the AP/Coaches polls... but both Murray State & St. Mary's are ranked in both of those polls, so I have no idea.    Also, Davidson is just outside of the Top25 in both polls, but aren't ranked on this poll.    Very odd.

[TheTastyGreek]

56 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

ok.  question?  Why is Saint Mary's a "mid major" and Gonzaga is not?  Playing in the same conference.  You either are or you aren't?

Budget, mostly. National reputation allowing for non-conference scheduling on relatively equal footing with power conference schools, to a lesser extent. 

There used to be a site that defined mid-major very precisely, primarily by conference but with a handful of standout schools (Gonzaga, Memphis, etc.) that spent on basketball at or above the level of a power conference school. They called the annual basketball budget cutoff the "red line," and anyone below it was a mid-major according to their measure. 

Basically, if you're in the West Coast Conference and you're not Gonzaga, you're at a disadvantageous position in negotiating OOC games with power conference schools, and you're spending more like a CUSA school than like an ACC school. 

If you're Gonzaga, back in 2017 you spent triple what Saint Mary's spend on their basketball program, and in 2020 you spent more on your basketball team than any school in the Pac 12 other than UCLA. Those aren't meant to be cherry-picked figures, just the most recent years from which I could quickly find the numbers side by side. 

Saint Mary's best home non-conference game this year was Yale or Missouri State. They had one nice multi-team tournament in Hawaii, on a neutral court with Notre Dame, Oregon, and Wisconsin. 

Meanwhile, Gonzaga, because of sustained reputation and budget, had a legit home game with Texas, and another with Washington that was cancelled due to COVID issues. They played in four multi-team events, with games against ranked teams in Duke, Alabama, Texas Tech, and UCLA. 

Gonzaga and Saint Mary's are in the same conference, but they're not in the same league. If they spent like the rest of their conference, or went on a 4-5 year bad run that killed their ability to headline in-season tournaments and get home-and-homes with traditional basketball powerhouses? Gonzaga would be a mid-major. 

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

Murray State is GROSSLY overrated...

[keith]

On 2/24/2022 at 10:45 AM, TheTastyGreek said:

Budget, mostly. National reputation allowing for non-conference scheduling on relatively equal footing with power conference schools, to a lesser extent. 

There used to be a site that defined mid-major very precisely, primarily by conference but with a handful of standout schools (Gonzaga, Memphis, etc.) that spent on basketball at or above the level of a power conference school. They called the annual basketball budget cutoff the "red line," and anyone below it was a mid-major according to their measure. 

<snip>

I included this in another thread.  It references the "red line" as it was back in 2008-2009.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100410203339/http://www.midmajority.com/redline.php

Edited February 25, 2022 by keith

[GMG_Dallas]

On 2/24/2022 at 9:45 AM, TheTastyGreek said:

Budget, mostly. National reputation allowing for non-conference scheduling on relatively equal footing with power conference schools, to a lesser extent. 

There used to be a site that defined mid-major very precisely, primarily by conference but with a handful of standout schools (Gonzaga, Memphis, etc.) that spent on basketball at or above the level of a power conference school. They called the annual basketball budget cutoff the "red line," and anyone below it was a mid-major according to their measure. 

Basically, if you're in the West Coast Conference and you're not Gonzaga, you're at a disadvantageous position in negotiating OOC games with power conference schools, and you're spending more like a CUSA school than like an ACC school. 

If you're Gonzaga, back in 2017 you spent triple what Saint Mary's spend on their basketball program, and in 2020 you spent more on your basketball team than any school in the Pac 12 other than UCLA. Those aren't meant to be cherry-picked figures, just the most recent years from which I could quickly find the numbers side by side. 

Saint Mary's best home non-conference game this year was Yale or Missouri State. They had one nice multi-team tournament in Hawaii, on a neutral court with Notre Dame, Oregon, and Wisconsin. 

Meanwhile, Gonzaga, because of sustained reputation and budget, had a legit home game with Texas, and another with Washington that was cancelled due to COVID issues. They played in four multi-team events, with games against ranked teams in Duke, Alabama, Texas Tech, and UCLA. 

Gonzaga and Saint Mary's are in the same conference, but they're not in the same league. If they spent like the rest of their conference, or went on a 4-5 year bad run that killed their ability to headline in-season tournaments and get home-and-homes with traditional basketball powerhouses? Gonzaga would be a mid-major. 

Makes sense. For me some of the confusion is tied to different major sports networks seemingly having different definitions. SB Nation's midmajormadness website has Gonzaga and Houston 1-2 in their mid-major rankings. That said, if money is all it takes, Gonzaga's coach Mark Few makes $1.8 million/year. Take some of that Seth money and slide it on over to Grant's bank account and call us a power school. 😎

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2022/2/21/22944082/the-other-top-25-six-new-teams-join-ranking-feb-21-2022

[Talon90]

".... Thousandths of a percentage point in the KC mid-major algorithm of excellence are all that's keeping the Mean Green from the top of the leaderboard in the Augusta National of mid-major polls."

HIGH PRAISE from Kevin Connors.  Murray State is really good.

 

[Talon90]

On 2/24/2022 at 2:34 PM, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Murray State is GROSSLY overrated...