C-USA response to defectors

[NT80]

2 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Question for those that have paid attention more than me... are ODU, Marshall, and SoMiss saying “here’s the buyout money, we’re out.” and Judy and crew are saying hell no? Or are they just trying to dip without penalties?

I don't know all the politics but apparently the SBC has told the three schools they can join as soon as the 2022-23 academic year, so they want to negotiate out early, to leave this summer.   The AAC can't take UNT, et al until their schools vacate for the the Big12.  OU and UT were not supposed to leave the Big12 for the SEC until July 2025, unless they can negotiate leaving earlier.  That is what ODU, Marshall, and USM want to do = negotiate to leave early.  That usually involves a reduced leaving fee and gaining new arrivals, but Judy is refusing to negotiate.  Head in sand!

[NT80]

CUSA says it will use legal action…

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/15/conference-usa-legal-action-marshall-southern-miss-old-dominion-departure-sun-belt

Edited February 16, 2022 by NT80

[MeanGreenTexan]

55 minutes ago, NT80 said:

CUSA says it will use legal action…

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/15/conference-usa-legal-action-marshall-southern-miss-old-dominion-departure-sun-belt

Gee, I wonder if Marshall/ODU/SoMiss thought about this happening prior to announcing their departure?

All 3 are really stupid and cannot comprehend risk mitigation, so probably not.   These 3 schools likely entered into their early-exit decisions abruptly and without careful thought.  Boy, I bet they feel really dumb right about now.

That's why this threat from Judy & Co is going to work in coercing them to stay!   CUSA leadership sure outflanked those bozos on this one!  Judy is so brilliant!

[outoftown]

All I know is that both sides money pots will end up being smaller because of how much of the overall money will now go to lawyers. The three schools should have waited, C-USA should at least have negotiated, the lawyers could hardly have hoped for more stubbornness from everyone.

[Green Otaku]

On 2/15/2022 at 7:31 AM, MeanGreenTexan said:

NT is leaving the conference and will owe a buyout as well, just not as early as the SBC-bound schools.   If we can assist these other schools in negotiating an agreement, we might be able to set a precedent & help ourselves.

I have seen many posters post something similar to this. NO. These 3 schools are not negotiating the buy out, the buyout will be paid by both them and us. There is 0 leeway on this. What these schools are negotiating is a penalty for leaving early. UNT and the other 5 are not leaving early, so we have nothing to negotiate.  

[MeanGreenTexan]

16 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

I have seen many posters post something similar to this. NO. These 3 schools are not negotiating the buy out, the buyout will be paid by both them and us. There is 0 leeway on this. What these schools are negotiating is a penalty for leaving early. UNT and the other 5 are not leaving early, so we have nothing to negotiate.  

Apparently there is "0 leeway" on anything with C-USA leadership.   That's why C-USA is going to die.

[Green Otaku]

16 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Question for those that have paid attention more than me... are ODU, Marshall, and SoMiss saying “here’s the buyout money, we’re out.” and Judy and crew are saying hell no? Or are they just trying to dip without penalties?

CUSA requires a 14 month notice and forfeit of 2 years of conference revenue to leave the conference. The SB3 wanting to leave early means they will be in breach of that contract, meaning they will be liable for damages and penalties caused by their early departure, in addition to their exit fees.

No one knows the details, but it is rumored that the SBC3 offered a penalty amount to CUSA and people assume it was much lower than CUSA wanted. Again no one knows the details here this is just what's been speculated. This caused CUSA to not respond, which we can assume was council by their lawyers. 

So this whole thing boils down to if the 3 want to leave early they will have to pay what CUSA deems to be appropriate. 

[Green Otaku]

8 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Apparently there is "0 leeway" on anything with C-USA leadership.   That's why C-USA is going to die.

 

CUSA gets a lot of flack for doing nothing, so now that they stand their ground and people complain? Let me remind everyone that the contract was signed by every school, I think it would look worse if CUSA just rolled over and let these schools walk all over them. 

If you ask me the SBC3 are acting like spoiled kids, wanting out without going through the proper channels. You don't stop paying your car payment and tell the bank, "here is this amount for the penalty." They will decide what you pay, and they will rake you over the coals when they do.  CUSA said, "That's how you want to do things? Let's play hardball then." 

[MeanGreenTexan]

9 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

 

CUSA gets a lot of flack for doing nothing, so now that they stand their ground and people complain? Let me remind everyone that the contract was signed by every school, I think it would look worse if CUSA just rolled over and let these schools walk all over them. 

If you ask me the SBC3 are acting like spoiled kids, wanting out without going through the proper channels. You don't stop paying your car payment and tell the bank, "here is this amount for the penalty." They will decide what you pay, and they will rake you over the coals when they do.  CUSA said, "That's how you want to do things? Let's play hardball then." 

It's always best if you can split amicably.  These schools are leaving, and they find it best for them doing so early.  I'm not saying let them skate.   I'm saying make it work for everyone involved.  Holding these schools' feet to the fire reeks of desperation.   If the AAC suddenly had their openings for the 22-23 season, wouldn't we be wise to get in there ASAP?

And it's also quite obvious that no one wants to be associated with C-USA anymore except for FCS schools looking to come up to FBS as their ticket to do so.  Likely because of the inflexibility that not only manifests itself in this instance, but also in the utter lack of proactive initiatives.   Everything is reactionary with C-USA leadership.    The one time Judy tried to be proactive (the idea that streaming platforms are going to be the best media partners moving forward & to hell with ESPN), her decision backfired catastrophically ... to the point where the SBC is now a more-favored conference than C-USA.   How sad.  Who would've ever thought this would be the outcome when we joined not even 10 years ago?

[greenminer]

When we get into the AAC, are we getting any NCAA unit money that the departing members are forfeiting

[Green Otaku]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

It's always best if you can split amicably.  These schools are leaving, and they find it best for them doing so early.  I'm not saying let them skate.   I'm saying make it work for everyone involved.  Holding these schools' feet to the fire reeks of desperation.   If the AAC suddenly had their openings for the 22-23 season, wouldn't we be wise to get in there ASAP?

And it's also quite obvious that no one wants to be associated with C-USA anymore except for FCS schools looking to come up to FBS as their ticket to do so.  Likely because of the inflexibility that not only manifests itself in this instance, but also in the utter lack of proactive initiatives.   Everything is reactionary with C-USA leadership.    The one time Judy tried to be proactive (the idea that streaming platforms are going to be the best media partners moving forward & to hell with ESPN), her decision backfired catastrophically ... to the point where the SBC is now a more-favored conference than C-USA.   How sad.  Who would've ever thought this would be the outcome when we joined not even 10 years ago?

 

I don't know if I would call the statements put out by those 3 schools as amicable. I think everyone read them as a big middle finger to the conference. That's the problem, we don't know how much they offered to leave (rumors say there was an amount offered by the schools,) I can only assume it wasn't enough for CUSA to agree. How do we know they aren't trying to skate, as you put it? We don't, no one if the public does. If the SBC3 feel like they have been wronged and have a case, get a team of lawyers and sue the pants off of CUSA, what's so hard about that? 

 

If the AAC had openings for us now: 1. Not while Littrell is the coach, Houston, Cicny, UCF, etc. would destroy us. I'd rather go into the new conference with a fresh start, not to get curb stomped. 2. Not if we had to pay some ridiculous amount to get out, the way they are handling this having 9 teams leave the conference at the same time would exponentially increase the damages. 

 

No one doubts that the CUSA leadership has been lacking. But who's fault is that? Why didn't Judy's bosses vote her out? The schools in this conference have just as much blame for not ousting a bad leader. 

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

 

I don't know if I would call the statements put out by those 3 schools as amicable. I think everyone read them as a big middle finger to the conference. That's the problem, we don't know how much they offered to leave (rumors say there was an amount offered by the schools,) I can only assume it wasn't enough for CUSA to agree. How do we know they aren't trying to skate, as you put it? We don't, no one if the public does. If the SBC3 feel like they have been wronged and have a case, get a team of lawyers and sue the pants off of CUSA, what's so hard about that? 

 

If the AAC had openings for us now: 1. Not while Littrell is the coach, Houston, Cicny, UCF, etc. would destroy us. I'd rather go into the new conference with a fresh start, not to get curb stomped. 2. Not if we had to pay some ridiculous amount to get out, the way they are handling this having 9 teams leave the conference at the same time would exponentially increase the damages. 

 

No one doubts that the CUSA leadership has been lacking. But who's fault is that? Why didn't Judy's bosses vote her out? The schools in this conference have just as much blame for not ousting a bad leader. 

 

To me, it sounds like the 3 schools that are leaving are prepared to pay whatever it takes to get out (no doubt they are prepared to pay full price), but came to the negotiating table, like they should.  C-USA leadership chooses not to budge, and purposefully puts out their football schedules now (no need to do this, what's the rush?) with these teams, who have clearly stated their intentions to leave, included.
Of course, this is going to generate confusion from within those fanbases, so the schools' leaders would naturally come out to clarify their already-stated intentions.  I don't see this as a middle finger at all, just a clarification.  If anyone has the birds out, it's C-USA leadership in forcing these schedules out right now.

Good point on the middle paragraph about Littrell.  Yikes. 

And I agree with the last paragraph too.   Not sure why University presidents didn't recognize Judy's vision as pure crap and oust her a long time ago... instead, these schools found ways to bail.    A once-proud D1 conference is about to die because of her.

[Green Otaku]

15 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

To me, it sounds like the 3 schools that are leaving are prepared to pay whatever it takes to get out (no doubt they are prepared to pay full price), but came to the negotiating table, like they should.  C-USA leadership chooses not to budge, and purposefully puts out their football schedules now (no need to do this, what's the rush?) with these teams, who have clearly stated their intentions to leave, included.
Of course, this is going to generate confusion from within those fanbases, so the schools' leaders would naturally come out to clarify their already-stated intentions.  I don't see this as a middle finger at all, just a clarification.  If anyone has the birds out, it's C-USA leadership in forcing these schedules out right now.

Good point on the middle paragraph about Littrell.  Yikes. 

And I agree with the last paragraph too.   Not sure why University presidents didn't recognize Judy's vision as pure crap and oust her a long time ago... instead, these schools found ways to bail.    A once-proud D1 conference is about to die because of her.

 

Unfortunately for the SBC 3 C-USA is not obligated to operate on their timeline. If we take a step back and look at this from above those 3 schools are trying to negotiate a deal before the schedules are out to show there is little disruption and lower the penalty. C-USA chose to wait so they have a clear picture on what those damages would be. They can now say WKU loses this date, at this time, on this network, etc. I'd guess that is why their legal team had them wait until now. Each side is looking out for their own self interest. A key point is, I don't think C-USA HAS to negotiate. They can sit back, let the parties breach the contract, take it to court and collect the fees/damages the court deems fair. 

I'm trying to view this from a legal perspective and not pick sides. While it may be a dick move by C-USA to wait, I do think they are performing within their legal rights. 

[Cerebus]

The commissioners office is a figurehead position.   

Those decisions you keep blaming on Judy?  They were made by the presidents of the institution. 

Catching flak for the decisions that don't work out?  Exactly why they pay her. 

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

21 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

The commissioners office is a figurehead position.   

Those decisions you keep blaming on Judy?  They were made by the presidents of the institution. 

Catching flak for the decisions that don't work out?  Exactly why they pay her. 

 

I, and I think most folks, understand this.
It's kinda like investment firms though.  It's my money, I make the final call on where it goes. 

But if I take my money to a firm who thinks sticking it all in 1 CD is the right way to make money, I'm giving up a ton of money.  They may have a bunch of poor-yet-convincing reasons why it's the right way though, and if I don't know enough to say, "No, that's stupid.", I'm only going to gain pennies by going with them.
These University presidents have a ton on their plates, mainly in academia.  They're not Athletics people.  They trust Conference leadership to guide them in their decisions.   
C-USA leadership wants to go all-in with their institutions' money in CDs.   Just horrible leadership. 
Meanwhile, even though the SBC started with less funds, their diversified portfolio is doing great and gaining.  No wonder why SoMiss/Marshall/ODU have resigned themselves to paying the penalties to get out of C-USA & get into SBC.

[GrandGreen]

I believe the departing 3 are more concerned with saving face than early departure.   Like the Belt, is some greatly desirable conference.

Perhaps it is a negotiation ploy, but it seems to me; CUSA holds all the cards. 

The thought of paying out millions to leave a year earlier, just does not make financial sense.   

[MeanGreenTexan]

5 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I believe the departing 3 are more concerned with saving face than early departure.   Like the Belt, is some greatly desirable conference.

Perhaps it is a negotiation ploy, but it seems to me; CUSA holds all the cards. 

The thought of paying out millions to leave a year earlier, just does not make financial sense.   

It appears leadership at SoMiss, Marshall, & ODU disagree.

Again, if the roles were reversed, and the AAC-bound schools had the opportunity to move early, wouldn't we try to?   And wouldn't we be stupid not to try and negotiate a lower settlement, yet still knowing/preparing to pay the full amount to do so?  C-USA is posturing by releasing these schedules knowing full-well those 3 schools will not be participating.

[GrandGreen]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

It appears leadership at SoMiss, Marshall, & ODU disagree.

Again, if the roles were reversed, and the AAC-bound schools had the opportunity to move early, wouldn't we try to?   And wouldn't we be stupid not to try and negotiate a lower settlement, yet still knowing/preparing to pay the full amount to do so?  C-USA is posturing by releasing these schedules knowing full-well those 3 schools will not be participating.

They have not lost one penny at this point.  So you maybe a little premature on your pronouncement. 

Likewise, I doubt CUSA is just posturing when they have contracts and the right to seek damages. 

No one at this point, knows where the Belt 3 will play next year.  

It can be expected that every team will do what's best for their interest. 

If the Belt 3 think losing or paying millions to get in a lower level conference one season early is in their interest, then I question their judgment. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

They have not lost one penny at this point.  So you maybe a little premature on your pronouncement. 

Likewise, I doubt CUSA is just posturing when they have contracts and the right to seek damages. 

No one at this point, knows where the Belt 3 will play next year.  

It can be expected that every team will do what's best for their interest. 

If the Belt 3 think losing or paying millions to get in a lower level conference one season early is in their interest, then I question their judgment. 

I suppose you're saying the SBC3 are posturing then?    Because they have made it abundantly clear, multiple times, they will not be participating in C-USA in 2022-23.

[GrandGreen]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I suppose you're saying the SBC3 are posturing then?    Because they have made it abundantly clear, multiple times, they will not be participating in C-USA in 2022-23.

Yes, that is called posturing. 

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, GrandGreen said:

Yes, that is called posturing. 

 

We see things completely different then.

To me, the 3 schools have been nothing but up front and clear with their intentions.   Meanwhile, C-USA leadership has done nothing but dig in and play the jilted-lover role extremely well.

[keith]

16 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

It appears leadership at SoMiss, Marshall, & ODU disagree.

Again, if the roles were reversed, and the AAC-bound schools had the opportunity to move early, wouldn't we try to?   And wouldn't we be stupid not to try and negotiate a lower settlement, yet still knowing/preparing to pay the full amount to do so?  C-USA is posturing by releasing these schedules knowing full-well those 3 schools will not be participating.

I suppose we would, but I would hope that we would do so within the parameters of our commitments and obligations.  If I understand the conference agreements, members can only officially leave on July 1st of a given year provided that they first provide notice 14 months earlier.  A member who wants to leave earlier than July 1st or with less than the 14 month notice (or both) can ask or offer to compensate the conference for doing so, but the conference has no obligation to accept or work out an arrangement.  

What these three are doing is saying we don't like the conference's response, the hell with what we previously agreed to, we're leaving whenever we want to, send us a bill.  It seems like it would be impossible to run a conference (partnership) if at any time a member wants to can just say we're out.  

If they really want out early, then why didn't they leave back in December when they first notified the conference?  

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, keith said:

I suppose we would, but I would hope that we would do so within the parameters of our commitments and obligations.  If I understand the conference agreements, members can only officially leave on July 1st of a given year provided that they first provide notice 14 months earlier.  A member who wants to leave earlier than July 1st or with less than the 14 month notice (or both) can ask or offer to compensate the conference for doing so, but the conference has no obligation to accept or work out an arrangement.  

What these three are doing is saying we don't like the conference's response, the hell with what we previously agreed to, we're leaving whenever we want to, send us a bill.  It seems like it would be impossible to run a conference (partnership) if at any time a member wants to can just say we're out.  

If they really want out early, then why didn't they leave back in December when they first notified the conference?  

Precisely.  To all of this except the last part.    When all of these dominoes started falling (UT/OU announcement), we were already in the middle of Football/Volleyball seasons and basketball was about to ramp up.    They couldn't just leave right then.

Regarding your first paragraph, I believe the 3 departing schools followed this framework in good faith.  They didn't have to, especially if they already have funds lined up for whatever "penalties" they incur.   But they did so, hoping C-USA would do the same.    Judy obviously won't.  She doesn't know how.

And, regarding your second paragraph... these 3 schools' responses are a huge testament to the state of this conference.    So glad we're leaving soon.   Poor LATech.

[keith]

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

We see things completely different then.

To me, the 3 schools have been nothing but up front and clear with their intentions.   Meanwhile, C-USA leadership has done nothing but dig in and play the jilted-lover role extremely well.

So has the conference.  They have consistently said, we expect all members to live up to their commitments and be full participating members through the 2022-2023 season. 

Actually, Marshall originally was doing just that.  They were following the by-laws of the conference.  It wasn't until SoMiss and ODU threw a hissy fit that they decided to join in to see what happens.

I'm not trying to be a cheerleader for the conference.  We're gone after next season and then it's probably another 5-10 years before then next major shuffle.  

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, keith said:

So has the conference.  They have consistently said, we expect all members to live up to their commitments and be full participating members through the 2022-2023 season. 

Actually, Marshall originally was doing just that.  They were following the by-laws of the conference.  It wasn't until SoMiss and ODU threw a hissy fit that they decided to join in to see what happens.

I'm not trying to be a cheerleader for the conference.  We're gone after next season and then it's probably another 5-10 years before then next major shuffle.  

Yeah, but this is like a wife filing paperwork to divorce her husband, but he goes ahead and schedules out next summer's family vacation like nothing's wrong.   Bro, she doesn't love you anymore.
He knows what's coming.   He can make it amicable, or he can make it difficult.